Darn Ovation Mandolin Driving Me Crazy

[MarkF786]

I've been playing acoustic and electric guitar for over 20 years, and I keep a few guitars tuned in fifths; two in NST (CGDAE) and a tenor guitar tuned OM (GDAE). I've been working through some mandolin method books lately, but the stretch on the long scale is killing me, especially when playing FFcP so I've been thinking about playing the mandolin.

About twelve years ago, my wife bought me an Ovation Celebrity MCS 148 as a present. I had an Ovation acoustic, so she thought I'd like an Ovation mandolin. Great idea, but I've never gotten along with the darn thing. The intonation on the first one was so bad that the music store ordered another one for me. This one was better, but the action still seemed a little high, making the mandolin hard to play. I lowered the nut slots (I'm skilled at guitar setup & repair), but that didn't help much. I tried adjusting the truss rod since there seems to be a little too much relief, but the truss rod nut doesn't turn (I don't know if that's "by design"). I tried light strings on it, but since there's too much tension in the truss rod, the string action was too low to be playable.

Anyway, for the past twelve years this dang thing has spent 99% of it's life hanging on the wall or stored in the closet. Every time I think I'll give it another go, within a few days (or hours or minutes) I'm frustrated by it. I would have sold it a long time ago if it weren't a present from my wife. I tried it again tonight; uggh!

I think I need to go to the music store and try out some other mandolins just to make sure the Ovation is truly the problem, and it's just not me. Though my local stores probably don't carry Kentucy, Eastman, or Loar, maybe they have something else decent in stock to try.

[Bob Clark]

Hi Mark,

It sounds to me as if a good setup might solve your problem. I understand that you are experienced at guitar setup, but mandolins really are a different beast. Why not have it checked out by a luthier or setup person specifically experienced with mandolins, and see if they think it just needs a setup (which they would easily do) or something more? It wouldn't cost much to find out and might cure your frustration. Maybe they'd have you happily picking in no time.:)

Best wishes,

Bob

[MarkF786]

Bob,

Thanks for the reply. I'd consider it, but there's not much else that can be tweaked. The nut slots are about as low as they can be without risking string buzz. There are no shims under the saddle, so it can't be lowered further. And the truss rod isn't adjustable.

Hopefully the nearby Guitar Center or Sam Ash has some decent mandolins in stock; that should give me a fair basis to compare against.

Mark

[mandobassman]

Hopefully the nearby Guitar Center or Sam Ash has some decent mandolins in stock; that should give me a fair basis to compare against...

Don't count on it. GC doesn't know much of anything about mandolins and especially mandolin set up. You're much better off buying here from one of the really good Cafe sponsors such as The Mandolin Store or Folkmusician.com. They have a terrific selection of mandolins in every price range and they will deliver a mandolin that is properly set up from the start. Don't waste your time with Guitar Center. Buy guitars there, NOT mandolins.

[Tobin]

In my experience, neither Guitar Center nor Sam Ash will have anything that's playable, so they won't give you any reasonable basis for comparison. I could be wrong, but they seem pretty consistent in the quality and lack of setup with the mandolins they carry.

You really need a setup. Your bridge can be lowered, possibly, by shaving the saddle or foot. And correcting the intonation is a simple matter of moving the bridge.

Where do you live? Perhaps someone can recommend a local luthier that you aren't aware of.

[MarkF786]

I don't know if you're familiar with the Ovation saddle and bridge. The saddle is an piezo pickup assembled from metal and plastic; there's no way to shave it. Generally the height is adjusted with shims - until there's no shims left to remove. The bridge has a routed slot that fits the pickup/saddle, so it can't be moved without major work (like installing a new bridge).

Maybe it's possible to route the pickup/saddle slot deeper, but that goes beyond a normal setup.

Here's a picture of what an Ovation bridge and saddle look like; the picture of the mandolin is small so I included a picture of a guitar, which uses the same style bridge and saddle.

http://www.ovationtribute.com/Bridges/MM-68%20Mandolin%20bridge.jpg

http://www.adirondackguitar.com/lefty/Ovation/1719_bridge.jpg

[nickster60]

i was at the guitar center and they had a Kentucky 505 on the wall it was a used one. The bridge was set up at about 30 degrees leaning forward and there was a giant gap at the back of the bridge. The strings where black as coal and of course it sounded awful. So I inquired about the mandolin and they said it just had a fresh setup. Do yourself a favor and call one of the sponsors mentioned in this thread.

[dang]

Check out this thread from Ed Goist (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?88590-Ovation-MM68AX&highlight=ovation) and what he went through to get his playable...

[Tim2723]

Double click.

[Tim2723]

Also try to contact user Nate Carey. He went through the same problem a while back and solved it through setup issues. I understand your frustration about only being able to change just so much on the instrument, but in Nate's case the luthier was able to do a lot more to correct the intonation and action. His Ovation went from total frustration to excellent playability, and IIRC it didn't require anything major.

The work that ED Goist did on his was an unusual case not related to any specific problem but to customize the instrument as I recall. But between those two guys you'll have the experienced voice.

In fairness the Ovation is a mandolin/guitar hybrid and as such will never have the feel of an archtop instrument that will please an archtop player completely, but those issues you mention with intonation and action are commonplace and correctable. You need to do a few things differently than a guitar though, so don't give up yet.

[tmsweeney]

I agree while they are not top of the line, most of the ovations mandolins I have played are at least functional, and if your is shipped from the factory, it should be usable.
I think the problem is applying guitar thinking to a mandolin. Lack of knowledgeable resource seems to be prevalent.
Hopefully you can find someone local to help with the basics.

[Tim2723]

One of the big problems is that the US made MM-68 shipped from the factory with a full setup and multi-point inspection but the Celebrity and Applause models don't get that treatment. Of course, they cost significantly less too. It's hard to find a tech that really understands them. They aren't mandolins as such, but nor are they guitars. If you can find an actual Ovation technician it would help. Even a lot of guitar setup pros don't do that well with Ovation's guitars. I recall reading a couple of posts from our own mandolin luthier experts about how they didn't have the right tools to work on Ovations effectively. They're a weird animal.

It seems that whenever someone writes in with intonation and setup problems they have a Celebrity or Applause. I've always avoided the problems by buying the American version. Whether I actually did any better than anyone else is arguable though.

[Nevin]

If with normal strings you have too much relief and with light string too little, it sounds like a truss rod issue. If the adjustment nut is frozen, I would carefully put a little penetrating oil around the nut. Have a rag to clean up any excess. Then try and take the nut off. When you get it off, clean up the nut, and the rod. If the nut is at all damaged, get a new one. They are cheap.

Use a small amount of a dry lubricant. Carefully put the nut back on and see if you have the needed range of adjustment. If so great. If not, you can put a washer on the rod before the nut. This should give you enough extra range. In extreme cases a second washer may be needed.

[Pasha Alden]

Good luck with that ovation. I also wondered about setup!

[Pasha Alden]

Amen to that. Working through members and sponsors of this café is reputable and a good move - even when purchasing from SA. When I purchased my mandolins I found all on the various forums so helpful!

[Pasha Alden]

My Crafter ovation was functional and still is pretty playable. So do try and deal with some setup issues through a reputable luthier well versed in mandolins!