How to look after an old mandolin?

[Celt_lydia]

Hi I bought an old mandolin from ebay and it arrived today. Its a nice looking old Italian bowl back Mandolin with the name Achille Lanfranco 189- . I don't know if this means 1890 or is some kind of old model number?

Anyway it didn't have a case and there are afew cracks here and there. One of the ribs seems to be pushed out a little, but it doesn't seem too bad. It has a few strings on it and sounds good even untuned. I'm wondering if the cracks will be a big problem if I choose to play it?

I'm also wondering if re-varnishing the front would be a good idea since the wood doesn't seem to be varnished and has a few stains on it. I have some Violin polish but I don't think mandolins use the same kind of varnish so wouldn't like to chance it at the moment. Any tips on cleaning?

Also what kind of storage would you recommend? This case looks quite nice

http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Mandolin-Case-by-Gear4music/H24?origin=product-ads&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_campaign=PLA+G4M&utm_content=laFsATJ0|dc_pcrid_30216072799_plid__kw ord__match__

but might be for newer mandolins?

Thanks for any help :grin:

[brunello97]

Doesn't look like that case would fit a bowlback mandolin. It looks like something for a flat back mandolin or the like. Cases for bowlbacks are a bit harder to find, but I know some good folks here will chime in with some suggestions for where to find them in the UK.

Late 1890s would certainly be the era for Lanfranco mandolins. I have owned a couple of them and they were delightful if decidedly middle of the road quality instruments. Set up properly with some nice (very light) strings they can sound very charming, I think. Some of the UK folks here can recommend someone to set it up for you.

These mandolins had little or no finish on the tops. I would not recommend varnishing it yourself. Some gentle wood cleaner will help tidy it up. Our friend, an ex-pat countryman of yours Dave Hynds, does use some lemon oil on the Italian bowlbacks he restores. I have used it as well to good results. Don't put the violin polish on it either.

If you keep it, getting a case for it is a really good idea.

Post some photos of the mandolin. We would enjoy seeing it and will stir interest. Our good friend, John Maddock, is down Tavistock way and is a superb craftsman and has restored many Italian bowl backs of this era from Napoli: Stridentes, Lanfrancos, etc. He'll have some sound advice....

Mick

[Jim Garber]

Mick has some excellent advice. Hopefully John or Dave will chime in here as well. As far as cases go, I know that Hobgoblin (http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/products/GR3170/Standard-Bowl-Mandolin-Case/) has one that would work for your mandolin.

I will also recommend that you have a good luthier like John look at yours and make sure it is in good shape.

[Celt_lydia]

Hi thanks for the advice, yeah although it says fits all mandolins it looks a different shape for a bowel back. I'm learning on a Ozark flat back at the moment but when I get more familiar with playing I'd like to try some old Italian traditional mandolin music on this bowl back.

I'll try put up some photos later. It looks very nice on the back, the front looks a bit dark with dirt but I guess that comes with the age of it. I might try take off the strings and test a bit of lemon on it like you said to see if that helps.

[brunello97]

I'd like to try some old Italian traditional mandolin music on this bowl back....

That's the ticket, Lydia. There's a group here who enjoy playing this type of music:

Italian Mandolin Group (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?groupid=165)

John or Dave may scream, but I have used Murphy's oil soap to clean up old unfinished Italian mandolin tops to good effect. Not sure if that is available in the UK but likely some version is. Used with some 10XXXX steel wool it was a nice gentle cleaner. I used the lem-oil after it was all cleaned up.

Others will have some string recommendations, too. I use GHS ultra lights when I am just checking out/setting up a new (old) mandolin. They are pretty inexpensive and sound okay. (I think the GHS strings are avaialble in the UK.) When I'm ready to invest more, I like the Dogal Calace Dolce strings. They sound significantly better. The Lanfranco will sound delightful with them on. I've used Lenzner and Newtone but keep coming back to the Dogals. I'm always up for hearing what strings other folks may recommend.

Mick

[Tavy]

There are several issues here:

* Splits in the back: if you intend to play it, then these should be fixed at some point for several reasons: any splits here reduce the structural integrity and allow the neck to pull forward, it may also hamper the sound.
* Strings: depending on the strength of the instrument, either light (10-36) or ultra-light (9-34) strings are recommended.
* Cleaning the top: on many Italian instruments these are intended to unfinished or very nearly so. For a once in a hundred years clean then a light sanding with say 320 or 400 grit paper is acceptable, 0000 steal wood works well also but may leave behind traces of metal in the wood, so only use if you intend to seal with a thin coat of shellac afterwards. It's an open question I think whether these were ever truly unfinished, or simply so lightly finished (i.e. just sealed with shellac or similar) that there's nothing left. My guess is they did seal them with something, otherwise they'd have been a mess even before they even left the shop!
* Setup: I guess try it and see, but you may well find the frets too worn and low for easy playing. Depending on how serious you are about this being a player you may eventually need the services of a luthier to sort those out.
* Case: the only bowlback cases I know of in the UK are the Hobgoblin one (http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/products/GR3170/Standard-Bowl-Mandolin-Case/), and the Gewa one (http://www.thomann.de/gb/gewa_mandolinenetui.htm). I think Manchester might have a Hobgoblin shop?

HTH, John.

[Jim Garber]

All wise advice above from our sages. One more thing on the topic of cleaning. I would try the proverbial damp cloth before any other solvents. A little bit of water goes a long way and does very little damage. I tried that with my prize Embergher when I first got it and it worked wonders.

[brunello97]

John, do you think these tops might have been simply waxed? Would that make any sense as a finish?

Mick

[Jim Garber]

It's an open question I think whether these were ever truly unfinished, or simply so lightly finished (i.e. just sealed with shellac or similar) that there's nothing left. My guess is they did seal them with something, otherwise they'd have been a mess even before they even left the shop!

I agree with you. Perhaps just a very light rub-in with linseed or other oil to seal it?

[Celt_lydia]

There are several issues here:

* Splits in the back: if you intend to play it, then these should be fixed at some point for several reasons: any splits here reduce the structural integrity and allow the neck to pull forward, it may also hamper the sound.

The wood seems quite stable, just one of the ribs is poking out ever so slightly. I'll post some photos tomorrow when the sun is up :).

* Case: the only bowlback cases I know of in the UK are the Hobgoblin one (http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/products/GR3170/Standard-Bowl-Mandolin-Case/), and the Gewa one (http://www.thomann.de/gb/gewa_mandolinenetui.htm). I think Manchester might have a Hobgoblin shop?

Yeah I'm in there regularly, I've not looked at cases but they had a lot of mandolins when I was there last so maybe they have some thing suitable :).

[Celt_lydia]

I was thinking about the treatment of the wood on old mandolins. I think the best we can do is look at old paintings, because they seem to be a lot with people playing mandolins.

http://framingpainting.com/painting/the_mandolin_player-22237.html

I found this one on google by Charles Spencelayh, he was born in the late 1800s so probably painted this around the early 1900s. The mandolin seems to have a very light yellow orange tone to it.

[allenhopkins]

I was thinking about the treatment of the wood on old mandolins. I think the best we can do is look at old paintings...

Well, actually you can find lots of old bowl-backs around for comparison. Until the second decade of the 20th century, the bowl-back was the near-universal standard of mandolin construction. Many have survived, and not all with their tops discolored.

As some knowledgeable Cafe-ers have mentioned, your Lanfranco was very lightly finished, and probably shows age and wear more than more highly finished bowl-backs from the same era. You can look on this as "patina," which is what collectors call "dirt" (jus' kiddin', folks!), or you can do some gentle cleansing, starting with just a damp cloth and working slowly up from there.

Artists get licenses, called "artistic license," which permits them to tweak reality to suit their esthetic senses. E.g., I doubt the guitar Picasso painted was actually blue, and using that painting as a template for a contemporary refinish would be, perhaps, a bit misleading. I wouldn't try to match the finish depicted in a painting, unless that particularly suits your esthetic sense.

[brunello97]

Fair play to you, Lydia. Love the Spencelayh painting.

With those top mounted tuners, it probably shouldn't take long to make an ID on the mando in the painting. I'm in TX away from my files, but maybe bro' Jim has got his up and running again and could make a stab.

Despite our caveats about the finish (or lack thereof) not all Italian mandolins from this era had unfinished (or lightly finished) tops. Some did have a proper varnish or shellac. My experience is that some of the 'mass market' mandolins (many made and sold for export to the UK) lacked the kind of finish that would give the yellow hue, that Spencelayh rendered. Whether this was for sonic or economic reasons, I couldn't say. Though, like Quasimodo, I have a hunch. Even if this didn't have a finish and was actually still clean the available lighting sources of the day (doubtful daylight, here) would no doubt render this a bit on the warm spruce tone you.

That guy's cig is about to burn the table. What does he have there? Anisette? A little tray of olives?

Mick

[bmac]

I would be very cautious about using an old painting to determine color and varnish use... Paintings of that vintage were normally varnished after the oil paint was dried... sometimes many times. The color and gloss you see on the instrument pictured may be different from what the artist and original owner saw. In fact they are quite likely different.

[brunello97]

Ah, the painting was varnished. But maybe not the mandolin.;)

Mick

[Celt_lydia]

I went over the mandolin with this German sponge which is designed to get rid of dirt stuck in dishes etc. It was totally black when I had finished :grin:. But the mandolin came up a nice shade of yellow. I think the wood is treated in some way, but I am not sure with what. There is a white patch where the bridge was sitting where I think the treatment has faded.

Here are a few pictures I uploaded on my flickr anyway :grin:.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/antiqueviolins_uk/sets/72157635272555264/

[bmac]

The whitish patch under the bridge is likely the closest color to the original wood... In other words very little light has reached that area under the bridge to yellow whatever varnish is under the bridge. Varnish tends to darken with age. My guess is that that is the original color. As mentioned above, if the varnish coat was very thin to begin with that is exactly what you are looking at. The original wood plus a very light coat of varnish almost as if the mando was made yesterday.

[peterk]

Other than Gewa and Hobgoblin bowlback cases, there are a couple of options available on the Italian eBay site. (Do a search with "mandolino custodia" key words.) One of them is Warwick "Rockcase (bag)" which I have ordered but not received yet. Looks good on the picture though.:grin: Here is the link:http://www.ebay.it/itm/Rockbag-RC10642BRBSB-Mandolino-Fondo-tondo-Custodie-e-Foderi-Chitarra-E-Basso-/251327130287?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:IT:1123

[mandroid]

Eastman still have their Fiberglas case for bowl back Mandolins?

[Jim Garber]

Eastman prob does make it but i wonder about availability in the UK. Possible, of course.

[peterk]

Eastman still have their Fiberglas case for bowl back Mandolins?

For some reason those Eastman cases are not available in black colour these days. Also, I suspect they are made in China, although there is nothing unusual about that these days.
There is an eBay US seller going by the ID of "Violinking", and he has fairly decent fiberglass cases for bowlbacks, (silver,red and black), I mean fairly decent for the price, also made in China. I believe he ships internationally.

On occasion he has an inexpensive ($50-60) lightweight bowlback case which is made of some sort of foam core. I do not mind those either, pretty good value there.

[Jim Garber]

violinking is located in Texas and imports from China. I have 3 or 4 of the foam cases. I am not sure if they are available in the UK but perhaps someone is importing them. I use them as my main cases these days since they are decently made and have room inside for accessories.