Tanyards vs. Old Daingerfield

[almeriastrings]

Having worked up 'Tanyards' recently, I was struck by just how many of the phrases and fingerings in that piece are so close to 'Old Daingerfield'. The first part is near identical apart from a few bars. The second part also uses similar ideas... the sustained 5th fret notes on the top 'E' also echo a similar concept repeated in 'Old Daingerfield'. They are so close that I think you have to pay careful attention, or could accidentally mix them up! Would not like to perform one right after the other....could get into a real mess there.

Anyone else noticed this?

[Mike Bunting]

I haven't worked up Tanyards yet, I'm going to check it out.

[almeriastrings]

The trickiest move is the fast 7/9 double stop slide on the bottom strings while hitting clean harmonics with the pinky on the 12th...

There are other phrases in it that are very reminiscent of 'Old Ebeneezer Scrooge" and even a couple of licks right out of 'Tennessee Blues'. It's a great piece. Mike Compton of course has some great versions. To get the tune down, though, the version on Butch Robbin's solo album is excellent. You can really follow what the fiddle is doing there. Good tune!

[AlanN]

Yep, very true. Same with other Monroe tunes from that period - Old Ebenezer Scrooge and (another one in A which I forget the name).

[OldSausage]

Tanyards:
7cxgLJ1Csy4

Old Daingerfield:
nxgj95rKtoc

[f5loar]

I have found this to be true with several of Monroe's later day tunes. Some are hard to keep them apart and they seem to morph into one and the same. Butch Robins did two for one with Dangerfield and Scrooge. Still waiting on those final instrumental studio recordings to come out on CD. 16 new Monroe instrumentals remain in the can recorded from late 1993 to mid 1994. Only Boston Boy has been officially released on the 4 CD box set by MCA. Robert Bowlin was the fiddler for these sessions and it would be nice to hear his interpretation of these final tunes. If all 16 were released today it would be a big seller IMO. Not sure why it has not already been done.

[Tobin]

Yep, very true. Same with other Monroe tunes from that period - Old Ebenezer Scrooge and (another one in A which I forget the name).

Old Ebenezer Scrooge sounds very similar to portions of Jerusalem Ridge to me. Same chord structure and very similar melody.

[AlanN]

Inneresting.

To me, JR is its own thing, wrote in an earlier and very different time. I guess the tune I was thinking as similar to OES is Old Dangerfield. Regardless, it is very cool how Monroe's style and vibe changed over the decades. To those in the know, you can date him to how the tunes sounded and played, how his right hand worked, how his double-stops sounded.

Like that Monroevian thingy he invented (in G, 7-6-5-3-4 on G string, then 5 on D string). He built it, perfected it, then discarded it...lol.

[Spruce]

I kinda like this version (http://www.radiofreeolga.com/old-rodney-dangerfield.html) of "Old Rodney Dangerfield"... ;)

[sgarrity]

Throw Jekyll Island into that mix and you'll get yourself real confused.

[Mike Bunting]

Throw Jekyll Island into that mix and you'll get yourself real confused.

Yeah, I'm working on that one right now. My Father's Footsteps has that I, bVII thing in it too.

[Mike Black]

I have found this to be true with several of Monroe's later day tunes. Some are hard to keep them apart and they seem to morph into one and the same. Butch Robins did two for one with Dangerfield and Scrooge. Still waiting on those final instrumental studio recordings to come out on CD. 16 new Monroe instrumentals remain in the can recorded from late 1993 to mid 1994. Only Boston Boy has been officially released on the 4 CD box set by MCA. Robert Bowlin was the fiddler for these sessions and it would be nice to hear his interpretation of these final tunes. If all 16 were released today it would be a big seller IMO. Not sure why it has not already been done.

Maybe we should see if we can get the Dawg and Acoustic Disc behind this? That would be a great addition to the label. :)

[sgarrity]

There is also supposedly a recording of Baldassari, Compton, and McCoury doing a bunch of Monroe tunes that is owned by some studio that never released it. That's another I'd pay big money to get my hands on

[f5loar]

Maybe we should see if we can get the Dawg and Acoustic Disc behind this? That would be a great addition to the label. :) I could be wrong but I suspect the root of the problem trails back to James Monroe, who holds his Father's rights to his name and music. Being new music it gets complicated but I would think James would benefit greatly $$$ wise if he okay's anybody who would take the project on. Dawg could do it but I think even the Dawg ain't got the Dough to satisfy James Monroe's price. You would have to bring in the big investors with the really bid $$$ like Oprah, Donald Trump,MC Hammer, oh wait a minute, I think MC is broke now , so maybe Lady Gaga.

[Mike Bunting]

There is also supposedly a recording of Baldassari, Compton, and McCoury doing a bunch of Monroe tunes that is owned by some studio that never released it. That's another I'd pay big money to get my hands on

Yessir!

[Ivan Kelsall]

I take your point F5 - but has anybody thought to ask James Monroe about this ?. It's always been a puzzle to me how Bear Family Records got hold of so many BM recordings in order to compile their boxed sets. Regarding the instrumental recordings in question,i can't help but feel that Sugar Hil & several other record companies could get the show on the road, & James Monroe of course, would get the royalties.
I had a listen to Mike Compton playing 'Tanyards',a tune i'd never heard or even heard 'of' until this thread. Don't start baying for my blood,but it sounds one heck of an untidy tune to me,hardly 'composed',more thrown together. I'd never dream of saying the same about 'Old Daingerfield' or 'Old Ebeneezer Scrooge',both of which i play & the separate parts fit well together. Did Bill Monroe perform Tanyards often ?,
Ivan

[evanreilly]

In the case of the unreleased Monroe instrumental project, I don't believe it is James Monroe who is preventing that project from being released. If I recall correctly, the Recording Engineer is the owner.

[almeriastrings]

I had a listen to Mike Compton playing 'Tanyards',a tune i'd never heard or even heard 'of' until this thread. Don't start baying for my blood,but it sounds one heck of an untidy tune to me,hardly 'composed',more thrown together.

Mike Compton has very much taken this tune and gone in various directions with it... often using it as a 'solo' piece. There is also the very creative (and extended) variations he does on the version on 'Stomp' with David Long. To hear a far 'straighter' rendition, the version on Butch Robbin's "Grounded, Centered, Focused" is well worth seeking out. There, it certainly hangs together pretty well, I think. You hear it - for one thing - as a fiddle tune (Buddy Spicher), and Butch does some great banjo work in addition. The 'tune' is much more obvious than on the 'pure' mandolin renditions, in my opinion.

[Randy Smith]

Monroe recorded "OD" on *Master* in 1981. Jim Moss recorded "Tanyards" on his 1983 record of the same name. He might have been the first to record that tune. On Moss' cd--and I think on his album-- Monroe gives an introduction thanking Moss for playing Monroe's tunes the way he wrote them. I assume that Monroe gave Moss "Tanyards" as tune few people or even no one else knew. Monroe must have heard the two melodies as separate tunes; and he felt he wasn't retooling an earlier tune when he was writing and playing the second. I also assume Monroe wrote "OD" before "Tanyards," which itself might be wrong. Since Bob Black and Kenny Baker both play on Moss' album, perhaps Black, who is probably familiar *Master*, might be helpful. Jim Moss would also be a real addition to this discussion as would anyone else Monroe spoke to about these tunes.

Or maybe Monroe liked those licks and just did make up a second tune borrowing from the first. Or maybe he just didn't remember.

This post reeks of possibilities, maybes, and perhapses. Hopefully more substantial info and comments will appear.

[f5loar]

In the case of the unreleased Monroe instrumental project, I don't believe it is James Monroe who is preventing that project from being released. If I recall correctly, the Recording Engineer is the owner.
True but his ownership of the recordings does not give him the copyright permission to release them. James gets in on that, otherwise there would a big lawsuit against that owner. We are talking an official release here not a bootleg. I'm sure James has been approached but next time I see him I will be sure to ask him about it. I had an investment firm contact me the other day about investing in the movie "Hunger Games II". In so much as I did not see the first one I sure was not going to invest in that one. I would have invested in "The Lone Ranger" and I would also have lost my As$ on it. But if I had gone in with Oprah and invested in "the Butler" I'd have my own home in the Bahamas and a Lloyd Loar or two. I would invest with James Monroe to release the final sessions of his Father. Anyone else sees James before me, pass the word along that F5Loar is interested.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Almeria - "The 'tune' is much more obvious than on the 'pure' mandolin renditions, in my opinion." . I have to agree with you on that, because that several times when trying to 'get a tune in my head',i've resorted to a fiddle version. 'Old Daingerfield' was one. I used the version by Becky Buller from her CD "Rest My WearyFeet". The melody stands out perfectly.Once i'd got the tune in my head,i was able to go back & listen to all the nuances that Bill Monroe put into the tune & take it from there,
Ivan