Looking for F-style Mandocellos [Archive]

Jordan Mong

Aug-01-2013, 12:18am

It is to my understand that these are not quite as common as the A-style mandocellos, nor are there good inexpensive models made for mandocellos like there are guitars and mandolins. I'm willing to save up some money for one in the future, but I'm not sure at what price I should expect to pay, or even where to buy them! I know I need a roughly around a thousand dollars for one, I'm not sure how much more willing I am to go, there.
If anyone can point me to some sources where I can buy one, check one out, or even get the prices, please let me know. Thank you, in advanced.

mrmando

Aug-01-2013, 12:31am

There are a couple of no-frills luthiers -- Steve Wishnevsky and Mike Soares come to mind -- who have built objects that kinda sorta look like F-style mandocellos in the $600–1,000 range. It's hard to say whether these would meet your expectations. They're certainly not instruments of great refinement in quality or tone, but they might get the job done depending on your needs.

If you want a professional-grade F-style mandocello, you can expect to lay down at least $4K.

Jordan Mong

Aug-01-2013, 12:55am

I've heard of Wishnevsky and Soares before while browsing around these forums. I would really like the F-style, as I've always admired the look. To be honest, I came across the mandocello while looking for a guitar in the shape of an F-style, as I am not comfortable with the size of the mandolin (albeit, I do still wish to own one someday), but decided to stick with the mandocello for its awesome size, look, sound, and the chance to learn a new, and rather unique, instrument.
I would really like a nice tone, though. It is to my understanding that cheap mandocellos are not going to be common, as there are no "student" models nor the chance of getting one labeled as a "learners instrument" due to their being so far into the family, already. So while I do want a good sound, I don't really need a higher end sound, either. The highest I am willing to go is maybe $1,500. I know F-style anything is much more expensive than A-styles or other styles due to the complex build, and also due to that, they are much more uncommon. But $1,500 is the most I'm willing to raise up to for the instrument. I do not believe that will land me a bad model, though, say like an $80 mandolin would, if you understand the comparison.
Thank you for your input, though. And thank you for any more of your two cents you would like to add.

EDIT: Looks like I'm a on a tight rope with that price. I thought I saw some F-styles go under the $3k mark. At this point, I'll take anything or any information anyone can offer me. I'll just have to find more ways to make money. Thanks, again.

sgrexa

Aug-01-2013, 1:15am

I think Morgan Monroe makes a carved top f style cello in that price range. I would highly suggest trying one out no matter what style before committing to an f style. These long scale mandolin family instruments are difficult to play and might not be your cup of tea. In short, don't just buy an instrument because it might look cool. Think of how you might use it in a practical sense.

Good luck!

Sean

mrmando

Aug-01-2013, 1:25am

But $1,500 is the most I'm willing to raise up to for the instrument. I do not believe that will land me a bad model, though, say like an $80 mandolin would, if you understand the comparison.
Certainly no established pro mandolin luthier is offering an F-style cello at that price point.

Here's a funky-looking thing by Martin Delabano, sort of a second-tier F-style. A cut above Wishnevsky or Soares but not quite to the quality of, say, a Weber. And even this costs $3,400, although it would have to be far less ugly for me to pay that much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgaxraFo9sg

Nevin Fahs is another guy who's a little off the beaten path and has made some nice-looking mandocellos. But given that his Stahl copy is $2,400, I doubt he will agree to make an F-style for $1,500.
http://redheadmandolins.com/for-sale/

Carving the scroll on an F-style mandolin is a labor-intensive, time-consuming process that adds greatly to the price of the instrument. Carving a bigger scroll on an F-style mandocello takes even longer and costs even more. So a $1,500 F-style cello makes no economic sense. It's chimerical. It would cost much more than that to build it properly, and if you decide to build it cheaply, you'd better price it less than $1,500, because people who want cheaply made instruments won't pay that much.

My advice would be to forget about an F-style and look for a used Weber flattop, Eastman, or Ovation. Or maybe, if you're very lucky, someone will want to sell a used Herb Taylor mandocello.
http://www.herbtaylor.com/instruments/mandolin/

mrmando

Aug-01-2013, 1:33am

I think Morgan Monroe makes a carved top f style cello in that price range.
I believe you're thinking of the MFB-100 bouzouki:
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/MFB100.htm

At 25.5" it's long enough for cello tuning, but it would be a mighty struggle to slot the 1-3/16" nut for eight cello strings! I think it's been discontinued.

I have a Morgan Monroe "F bass," which is, I think, built on the same body as the bouzouki. The bass is certainly no tone monster. The body's really too small to resonate at those low frequencies. It looks cool, though.

Jordan Mong

Aug-01-2013, 1:54am

Thank you both, again. I am aware of Martin Delabano, and I must say, that video was one of the first to make me want one of these. It looks like an awesome instrument, but to each their own, I suppose. I just thought and looked further into it, and $1,500 seemed off, hence the edit. However, I do believe I have seen some sold at that price, though the key word is sold. I believe I will be fine with the feel of the instrument, or it may take some getting used to. I've handled my share of guitars, 12-strings, mandolins, and basses. I think the fingering would give me some trouble. I know what specs would feel best, as well, if I am going by the feel of a guitar. I hope I am not sounding foolish, at all, as I am quite passionate to studying these instruments (I know more about them than I know how to play them), but the mandocello is just being introduced to me, and I love the sound and look of them.

sgrexa

Aug-01-2013, 2:56am

Well Martin, certainly the terms bouzouki, mandocello, octave mandolin and even octave mandola have been used to describe essentially the same instrument in this forum and elsewhere to confuse just about anyone. I sort of have my own definition that I use for each developed over years of observation of players and instruments here in the US and globally. Going on memory alone and after only looking at the Morgan Monroe in a couple classified ads I lumped it in the mandocello category and the only candidate that came to mind as something the OP might want to investigate. Having never played one and looking at the specs the nut width is oddly small. Personally, I find the simple six string guitar infinately more versatile and easier to play in both standard and the many, many alternate tunings out there. That said, I would still certainly give the MM bouzcello a go if one ever happened to appear and offered the opportunity.

Sean

sgrexa

Aug-01-2013, 10:46am

BTW, I had to post this somewhere, and this seems like it should be OK:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/67989

Sellers name is Olav Loef?? Come on!?

Sean

sgrexa

Aug-01-2013, 10:51am

Also, I was wondering, why wouldn't someone make a 25" scale guitar (or whatever?) shaped instrument with removable nut and bridge inserts? If it had 8 tuners, one nut / bridge insert could be set up for mandocello and the other set for guitar? Probably something to do with the scale and fret positioning that I am too brain dead to figure out.

Sean

sunburst

Aug-01-2013, 11:14am

Sean, I never thought of it, but I don't see why that wouldn't be possible. It would probably be prudent to calculate total string tension set up both ways, and if the difference is not too extreme, it could probably be done. Don't expect to walk into a music store and find something like that though. That's the realm of custom builders and I'm sure there are many willing to talk to you about such a project (at the right price).

To the OP, I think the reality of the amount of work involved in making scroll-bearing ("F-style") mandocellos by nearly any work force in any place is going to make it hard to find such things at $1500. I hope I don't sound too harsh in saying I think a "reality check" may be in order.

tmsweeney

Aug-01-2013, 12:15pm

as others have rightly stated here finding a good quality F style mandocello for $1500 is going to be difficult
I think even 3K might be a bit short

so my advice - I have not owned an F style mandocello but have owned a flat top Freshwater ( out of business - but there is probably a lot of used stuff floating around)and currently have a previously owned ovation mandocello ( in truth it is an 8 string low range guitar- the neck is standard guitar) but it has built in pickup and is a good quality instrument
the strings are ball end ( fixed bridge like a flatop guitar) so you have to make up string sets as the loop ends from D'addario or others won't work.

both were under 1 k and are good instruments to learn on
so before you go spending 5K on something that might not be right for you- I would recommend looking at lower price cellos - Weber , Gypsy, make some very affordable models - but not in F style - Weber does make F style but they are generally over 3K
you may be able to do financing from the mandolin store -they might be your best bet.
the Gibson A style mandocellos are sometimes under 3K and are usually very nice instruments- again they can be somewhat rare.

as for fingering - the standard gauge on the low C course is 072 which is a bear
I have dropped my ovation down to 062 and it works pretty well
I will say mandocello is somewhat obscure - so there is not a lot of educational material out there - you are kind of on your own for study - you can borrow techniques form mandolin and mandola as well as guitar and bowed cello

if you want something closer to a guitar- octave mandolin would be the way to go and the A models or even flatops from many makers are very affordable

I will say I was pretty far into mandocello for a while - playing and writing a lot on it
but I have strayed back to octave and mandola - octave being the beast I ride most these days

mrmando

Aug-01-2013, 12:27pm

Well Martin, certainly the terms bouzouki, mandocello, octave mandolin and even octave mandola have been used to describe essentially the same instrument in this forum and elsewhere to confuse just about anyone.
I don't think mandocello belongs on that list. The term denotes a specific tuning that differs from any of the common tunings used for the other three.

foldedpath

Aug-01-2013, 1:25pm

It sounds to me like you're attracted to the visual aesthetics and the low tone in general, not specifically looking for an instrument tuned CGDA for playing things like the Bach Cello suites?

If that's the case, then I'd recommend octave mandolin instead. The fingering will be much easier, for one thing. I've played guitar for 30+ years before getting into mandolin and octave mandolin, and my 22.5" scale OM still feels like a finger-buster at times, especially with chord shapes. Notice how much the player's hand is shifting around to reach notes in that clip of the Delabano instrument. You can't just compare scale lengths, and think a 25.5" scale mandocello will be playable like a guitar. The tuning in 5ths makes it a completely different ball game.

An F-style Octave mandolin is still a rare bird, but at least they're a little more common than F-style mandocellos. They show up every once in a while on the used market. I bought my Yellowstone F-style Weber OM on Ebay, snatching it up as a "Buy it Now" when I found it selling for half the cost of a new one. The scroll is shown in my avatar at left, behind my Lebeda mandolin to get an idea of the size difference.

You're still going to be paying a lot more than your current budget for a quality instrument though, even used. I bought my Yellowstone OM used for $3,000 USD, and the new ones at the time were selling for $6,000. So you can save money buying used, but you'd better have some funds saved up to grab something like this quickly if you see it. There are independent luthiers making F-style OM's, but anything I'd personally recommend is going to cost at least up into that $3k range or higher.

The reason I was comfortable buying a Weber OM used, was that they're the only small-shop builder who has been making instruments like this in any real quantity, and they've been doing it for years. They've got it nailed for that particular style and tone, if that's what you're going for. So I think a Weber is the best bet for either a new or used instrument in this style, unless there is an independent luthier you've worked with before, or whose work you especially want to support. For a taste of the Weber F-style OM tone, here's a promo video featuring Sierra Hull. Start saving your money.
;)

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Jim Garber

Aug-01-2013, 1:37pm

Well, not an F-model mandocello, but one other possibility for the OP of anyone looking for a MC on a budget who has some luthier chops would be to convert an archtop guitar to an MC. I believe that Bernie Daniel has done that a few times with excellent results.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-01-2013, 6:22pm

I believe you're thinking of the MFB-100 bouzouki:
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/MFB100.htm

At 25.5" it's long enough for cello tuning, but it would be a mighty struggle to slot the 1-3/16" nut for eight cello strings! I think it's been discontinued.

I have a Morgan Monroe "F bass," which is, I think, built on the same body as the bouzouki. The bass is certainly no tone monster. The body's really too small to resonate at those low frequencies. It looks cool, though.

Martin might be right -- but I have a neuron flashing somewhere in my head that is telling me that indeed MM did make an F-style mandocello for a while. It may have been some 5 -8 years since I recall seeing one for sale though. But the price was not bad at all and it looked to be of quality equal to their mandolins at the time -- i.e., acceptable imports.

I also have watched Martin Delabano's videos and did communicated with him briefly once I believe. I recall he told me that he made his K-5 style - f-hole mandocello by scaling up the plans for an F-5 mandolin on a photocopier! My apologies if I have that wrong -- but he did scale up plans. He also made his own version of an H-5.

Personally I did not find them to be objectionable instruments. The mandocello box looks huge -- probably somewhat larger than a real K-4 with f-holes. But I think it is quite a feat to make something like that especially if not formally trained I would think?I think they are pretty cool considering he is not a luthier.

I believe his day-job is a music director at a high school.

As to the OP quest -- if he decides he can live without a F-style, there will probably be a couple of K-5 style mandocellos that were made by converting vintage arch top guitars for sale in a few months. They'll probably be near his price range.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-01-2013, 7:55pm

...Notice how much the player's hand is shifting around to reach notes in that clip of the Delabano instrument. You can't just compare scale lengths, and think a 25.5" scale mandocello will be playable like a guitar. The tuning in 5ths makes it a completely different ball game....

This is SO true! In addition the sound output of a mandocello is so different from a guitar --more abrupt, more dissonant sounding with much faster decay. I got interested in mandocellos years ago because I thought, well now I know something about the mandolin fingering why not get a BIG mandolin what you can sing along with like a guitar? It is possible to do but a mandocello does not have the sweet effortless sustain of a guitar. It's just a totally different beast altogether sound-wise.

Jordan Mong

Aug-01-2013, 11:23pm

Allow me to clarify some, here. I fully understand the Guitar and Mandocello are two very different animals. However, it was more of a size and feel comfort, not sound. I do wish to play cello pieces on one, and I find them just as lovely sounding as they look. And, also, I am fully aware the original price was not going to happen. I realized this on my second comment on the thread.
I have considered the Octave Mandola, however, again, I feel a lot more comfortable with a Mandocello. I'm alright with a higher price range, at this point. I would just like some information on prices I can expect for one that plays well. I've seen some listed around the $3k and $4k mark. I never really liked the A-style too much, and would much over prefer the F-style. I am quite attached to the instrument, and would like more information.
Unfortunately, I live in Charleston South Carolina, and the amount of music stores here are narrowed down to Pawn Shops and Guitar Centers. I do not have a chance to get my hands on anything beyond that of a mandolin or mandola, as far as that family goes. There aren't any family or luthier owned businesses here, that I know of. I would love to get a chance to try a mandocello out, but am unavailable to. The best I can go by are the specs I am comfortable with.

mrmando

Aug-01-2013, 11:32pm

If you can bring yourself to let go of the scroll fixation, I bet you can get yourself a really nice mandocello for $3K. Walt Kuhlman, Nevin Fahs, Herb Taylor, Weber and others will have non-F cellos in that range.

If you can go west to Georgia and visit Randy Wood, or north to N.C. and visit Tony Williamson, I bet you can at least try out a mandocello or two.

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 12:09am

It really is just an over all preference to have that F-style. I am almost positive I have seen good F-models around that price range, but it may take some looking around, after all. I hate to sound overly demanding or ignorant to these instruments, though.
Georgia is not very far from me, actually. That is maybe a two and a half hour drive from where I live. I will have to check it out, soon.
If there is any other information anyone can give me, that would be nice. But another thing I wish to point out, though, is that you seem to be offering luthiers or custom builds. Are there any places I can check out that do have them premade or resold, other than the classifieds here?

Barry Wilson

Aug-02-2013, 12:16am

Being a guitar player that is a newbie mando guy compared to those on the site here have steered me much the way you are being steered. I have 3 mandos, mandolla and an octave mandolin (and I built one myself)...

I find the OM even a stretch for the fingers and has made me rethink mandocello somewhat. I played bass many years doing rush and stuff too.

you could send Don Kawalek an email. He was going to put together a mandocello kit, like his mandos and OM's... it is reasonable but you won't get an F. consider yourself lucky, costs up here are even higher.

mrmando

Aug-02-2013, 12:33am

Are there any places I can check out that do have them premade or resold, other than the classifieds here?
The Mandolin Store, possibly. The bigger vintage dealers (Gruhn, Elderly, Mandolin Bros, Retrofret, a few others) will have old Gibsons now and then. None of them are really close to SC. You might try calling John's Music in Hilton Head Island:
http://www.johnsmusichhi.com/

John is a mandolin player and Cafe member; if anybody knows the whereabouts of a mandocello in South Carolina, it would be him.

I mention Randy Wood because there's a particular 2-point mandocello he's been trying to sell for a long time, so maybe he won't mind someone coming over and playing it. You'd have to ask him, though.

I do recommend finding a way to play one or more mandocellos before plunking down an amount like $3K.

Beanzy

Aug-02-2013, 12:36am

It's definitely not an F style and moreover I'm not sure if you'd ever go for a bowlback,
but you can be there for around 1k if you bought a Leone Model 618 MN (http://www.musikalia.it/en/english2.htm?http://www.musikalia.it/en/catalogue/instrument_card.asp?ID=120)
Or if you want a bit of scroll you could have it in the headstock for around 2k in the Leone Model 618 MBs (http://www.musikalia.it/en/english2.htm?http://www.musikalia.it/en/catalogue/instrument_card.asp?ID=123)

These aren't top end instruments, but you'd be up there with that cello sound.
You'd need to see what the story is with availability or import taxes coming from Italy.

mrmando

Aug-02-2013, 12:43am

Martin might be right -- but I have a neuron flashing somewhere in my head that is telling me that indeed MM did make an F-style mandocello for a while.
I get bupkus when I Google it. Let me know if you find any evidence.

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 12:45am

Awesome, thank you for the information mrmando. I do wish to get a feel for one, first. 2-points do look quite nice, as well.
Beanzy, thank you as well for your input. Please do not feel like I am insulting the instruments, but bowlback doesn't seem quite like me. Those instruments look very nice, especially the Model 618 MBs, the detail on the top of the instrument is very cool.

foldedpath

Aug-02-2013, 1:51am

If there is any other information anyone can give me, that would be nice. But another thing I wish to point out, though, is that you seem to be offering luthiers or custom builds. Are there any places I can check out that do have them premade or resold, other than the classifieds here?

You may be getting tired of hearing it, but the thing you're asking about -- an F-style mandocello -- is the most rare, and most expensive type of large-family mandolin you could possibly be asking about here on this forum. Which is why you're getting these replies.

I hope this doesn't sound too dismissive, because I can appreciate a desire... both aesthetic and tonally... to play one of these things. That's why I have my Weber F-style OM, after all. But you have to be realistic about the funds it will take to acquire something like this. You can't drive a Porsche on a Volkswagen budget, and you're asking about a Porsche-category instrument here.

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 3:22am

You may be getting tired of hearing it, but the thing you're asking about -- an F-style mandocello -- is the most rare, and most expensive type of large-family mandolin you could possibly be asking about here on this forum. Which is why you're getting these replies.

I hope this doesn't sound too dismissive, because I can appreciate a desire... both aesthetic and tonally... to play one of these things. That's why I have my Weber F-style OM, after all. But you have to be realistic about the funds it will take to acquire something like this. You can't drive a Porsche on a Volkswagen budget, and you're asking about a Porsche-category instrument here.

Oh, no, I well understand that. I meant if there was anyplace to look that someone may be offering one of their own to sell. But I also want any other information of the instrument or any two cents on how it plays.

mrmando

Aug-02-2013, 4:58am

Bernie Daniel

Aug-02-2013, 6:31am

Does anybody even build an F-cello on spec? I doubt a small-shop luthier would commit the time and effort without having a good stiff deposit up front. I have a little less doubt that Weber might build one on spec, but only slightly less.

You lost me on that one -- no need special order as Weber does build f-style mandocellos (http://webermandolins.com/instruments/mandocellos/f-style-mandocellos1) routinely?

On the Morgan Monroe f-style mandocello -- it could be a figment. I know that I considered three options some years ago (it could have been 6-8 years) before getting side tracked on mandolas for a while. The options at the time were to get a new Weber, or buy a 1980's Kentucky (Japanese model -- owned by a friend here in town), or a third less expensive option -- I just can't remember what that "third option" was but Morgan Monroe sticks in my head. It was definitely a pac-rim contender.

Jim Garber

Aug-02-2013, 8:59am

Sludgehead: Lovely name BTW :)
I would assume that you are also aware that the F-style is merely cosmetic and the tone will not vary much from the other shapes (2 point or "lowly" oval shaped. So you are essentially paying for some cosmetic appointments.

I had a friend who had Lawrence Smart build him an f-style mandocello but I believe that it cost somewhere around $15,000. A vintage K4 (the only scroll model mandcello that Gibson made in the teens/twenties) goes for upwards of $10,000 I believe. They are pretty rare.

Then again, here is a Loar era one for lots of bucks: http://www.billcampbanjos.com/BG_67_gibsonmandocelloK4.htm

Jim Triggs (http://triggsmandolins.com/mandocellos) builds them for $12k.

As for the above discussion of Weber mandocellos, I would tend to agree with Martin and that although they picture a bunch of mandocello models I would not think that Weber would always have them in stock ready to ship. I actually clicked on the buy it button and the web site directed me to the dealer directory listed by state.

If the OP is interested tho, I would recommend contacting Weber directly and asking whether they have one in stock, price etc. I would imagine that they would ship it to the nearest dealer.

sgrexa

Aug-02-2013, 10:42am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Weber-Yellowastone-Mandocello-Mandolin-Family-Instrument-/350823691374?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51aeb8b46e

Beautiful IMHO, but not quite there yet!

Sean

Jim Garber

Aug-02-2013, 10:55am

Beautiful IMHO, but not quite there yet!

Not quite where?

sgrexa

Aug-02-2013, 11:00am

Not an F style, but still beautiful and I am sure would be a fantastic way to start.

Sean

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 11:59am

mrmando

Aug-02-2013, 1:00pm

Well, if you love it enough to plunk down $1,200 to $2,000 extra, that's your prerogative, I suppose. But that amount or more would seem to be the differential between an A-style and an F-style.

A secondhand Eastman guitar-style or Weber A-style cello will hold its value pretty well. So if you want to get started on cello, you could get yourself one of those, and keep saving your pennies for an F-style in the meantime. When the time comes, sell your old cello for what you have in it and upgrade to the F.

Jim Garber

Aug-02-2013, 1:43pm

Once again, not an F-style but this guy makes some pretty resonant-sounding (at least on the video) mandocelli. He even makes a 5 course mandocello which can also be termed a liuto cantabile.

Dammann's mandocelli (http://www.mandocello.org/mandocellos.html).

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Bernie Daniel

Aug-02-2013, 2:24pm

On getting a Weber F-style mandocello...

I just made an inquiry with the local distributor here -- surprisingly the salesman who took the call knew what mandocello was and that they had none in stock in the four outlets in town. Now that was a shock.

But he said he would find out and he did. About an hour later I got a call saying he had talked to Weber sales and was informed that they had no F-style mandocellos in inventory at this time -- they do have some A- models for sale around the country.

If I ordered a Rawhide model today the price is $6900 and I could expect January, 2014 delivery. So that's how it is. For what it is worth there is a price increase scheduled for the entire line in about mid-August.

Walt Kuhlman

Aug-02-2013, 4:58pm

[QUOTE=Sludgehead;1188293] The F-style just has a certain vibe to it, looking more like a classical instrument mixed with a backwoodsy type instrument. QUOTE]

Really? The F-style is way more Art Nouveau then classical, classical would be more lute like, face/top IMHO.

mrmando

Aug-02-2013, 5:27pm

But he said he would find out and he did. About an hour later I got a call saying he had talked to Weber sales and was informed that they had no F-style mandocellos in inventory at this time -- they do have some A- models for sale around the country.

If I ordered a Rawhide model today the price is $6900 and I could expect January, 2014 delivery. So that's how it is. For what it is worth there is a price increase scheduled for the entire line in about mid-August.
Now do you believe me? Nobody, not even Weber, builds one of these things without money up front.

mrmando

Aug-02-2013, 5:30pm

Once again, not an F-style but this guy makes some pretty resonant-sounding (at least on the video) mandocelli.
You know, that does sound pretty nice. He sounds a little like Ramblin' Jack Elliott with a mandocello.

I have seen those before, but not sure I'd listened to the video clip. I think they're a little expensive for flattops, and the whole marketing approach is for guitar and bass players rather than mandolinists, but the tone seems to be there. That page has been up for at least a couple of years; interesting that the sideport models are the only ones he's managed to sell.

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-02-2013, 5:35pm

Mike Marshall has a nice F style Monteleone...

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-02-2013, 5:37pm

Guitar-bodied conversions are probably the most affordable to try out... several threads in CBOM on making your own... or ask Bernie...

mrmando

Aug-02-2013, 5:38pm

Mike Marshall has a nice F style Monteleone...
Book him for a gig and he'll even let you play it! It actually feels and plays very similar to my Andersen A-style.

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-02-2013, 5:41pm

Mandocelli I have had:
Gibson K1
Gibson K2
Ovation MC868
Mendel
Gypsy

Liuto Cantabile (5 course CCGGDDAAEE):
Crump Cittern
Ovation 12-string conversion - top neck of a double-neck
Yamaha 12-string conversion

Walt Kuhlman

Aug-02-2013, 6:09pm

A Liuto Cantablie, I'm gearing up to build one, circa a 24" scale, 5 course. What was the scale length on the one you had/played Eddie?

Marty Jacobson

Aug-02-2013, 6:24pm

Bernie Daniel

Aug-02-2013, 6:31pm

Now do you believe me? Nobody, not even Weber, builds one of these things without money up front.
Well I guess I have to now! LOL!

But before they moved to Oregon the were building a few for inventory because I think the Mandolin Store had one for sale last winter. It makes sense business-wise I doubt they'd sell more than a few a year and 12K is a lot of inventory to carry I guess.

BTW if you go to Dammann's channel on YouTube he has short video on the philosophy of his mandocello builds. In addition to a truss you can adjust the neck angle at the neck block/heel -- that's pretty interesting. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW09_9CBv0Q

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 7:37pm

Marty Jacobson

Aug-02-2013, 7:41pm

Ja, there are all kinds of weird things. Check out the Mandolin Oddities thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?1137-Mandolin-Oddities).. There was even one in there with 4 courses of 5 strings a while back.
3-strings per course are usually found on instruments called the tricordia or mandriola... Dave Hynds has some demos on youtube.

They are not what I'd call an improvement over a double courses.

Nat

Aug-02-2013, 7:56pm

The real question is whether you want an oval hole or f-holes. That's worth far more cogitation than body shape, in my opinion.

I have a vehement preference for oval holes on a mandocello. Most cheaper f-hole mandocellos I've heard in person sound like a guitar, and what's the point of that? Watch every mandocello clip on youtube you can find, and decide which one is best for you.

mrmando

Aug-02-2013, 8:16pm

Actually, I'd think triple courses start out as annoyingly impractical on a mandolin-size instrument and just get worse as you get bigger. It's hard enough to drive eight strings when they're as thick as cello strings, even using a super-thick Kevlar pick. If I wanted to drive twelve strings I'd need a whole bulletproof vest.

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-02-2013, 8:16pm

Eddie, did you forget the Vega?

Well the Vega is a 15" scale and is more Mandola - an Octave above a 'Cello...

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-02-2013, 8:19pm

A Liuto Cantablie, I'm gearing up to build one, circa a 24" scale, 5 course. What was the scale length on the one you had/played Eddie?

Walt,
Jim Garber refers to them as Liuto Cantabile - to me they're just Citterns tuned CCGGDDAAEE. The Crump was a 26" scale. Below 24" scale you're going to find it hard to get that Low C without using steel hawsers for strings...

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 8:24pm

Walt Kuhlman

Aug-02-2013, 8:42pm

Sludgehead, there are three course mandolin style instruments with roots in the Andes, Peru and Bolivia I believe.

Eddie: The customer is going with a low D rather then C, I think we will end up close to 25" anyway, (24.785 + or -). I felt the same thing low C + cable, a subject well discussed with my customer.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-02-2013, 8:51pm

Walt,
Jim Garber refers to them as Liuto Cantabile - to me they're just Citterns tuned CCGGDDAAEE. The Crump was a 26" scale. Below 24" scale you're going to find it hard to get that Low C without using steel hawsers for strings...

I wondering what gauge did you use for the E-course? And then how long did they go before breaking?

Bernie Daniel

Aug-02-2013, 8:54pm

...Eddie: The customer is going with a low D rather then C, I think we will end up close to 25" anyway, (24.785 + or -). I felt the same thing low C + cable, a subject well discussed with my customer.

This is a bit of a different direction but still with mandocellos -- what nut width do you use for your 4- and 5 course mandocellos?

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-02-2013, 9:20pm

On those scales Bernie a regular light guitar string works for an E. I like 1.5" for 4 course and 1.75" for 5 course... but I don't make 'em, I play 'em...

CES

Aug-02-2013, 9:27pm

Sludgehead,

Check with the contacts Martin gave you to look into finding one to lay your hands on. If all else fails, road trip to Nashville. Carter Vintage had a cool Rattlesnake MC in stock, at least a couple of weeks ago. Not F style, and not inexpensive, but you can get a feel for one. I bought an OM to sort of test the waters on the larger scaled mandos, and I've got about all I want to handle there, at least for now.

But I don't say that to discourage you. I think the MC is an extremely cool instrument, and maybe someday I'll spring for one. For now I'll keep working on my OM until my left pinky grows up ;)

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 10:08pm

Really? The F-style is way more Art Nouveau then classical, classical would be more lute like, face/top IMHO.

That is a very interesting point, actually. To me, it just feels homely, and reminds me of the country areas of Ohio and Tennessee, while still having a small town/city look, to it.

CES: I will certainly think about checking in on those contacts. When I get the time, I will look it. I don't wish to jump into things, though, or schedule any appointment of sorts, as those locations are still quite a distance. I also have no place to try an Octave Mandolin, either, but those do seem really cool, as well. The cello appeals to me more though for it's tuning, sound, as well fitting a much more comfortable size. It just looks like such a nice, beautiful instrument. And yeah, the pink never seizes to give anyone trouble. I still think mine isn't even calloused as much as it should be.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-02-2013, 10:12pm

On those scales Bernie a regular light guitar string works for an E. I like 1.5" for 4 course and 1.75" for 5 course... but I don't make 'em, I play 'em...

OK that makes sense on string gauge -- it's the same note & scale length -- why wouldn't it work? Momentary brain fade I guess -- I was thinking about a 5 course mandolin with a high B set. Gee, I've got another arch top guitar down the basement....

Bernie Daniel

Aug-02-2013, 10:28pm

One other consideration on the mandocello body. I believe that there was a reason that Lloyd Loar decided to use the L-5 guitar body for his K-5 master model mandocello in stead of modeling it after the K-4. In my opinion part of the reason was the size of the body cavity. If you were so see a K-4 and a K-5 standing next to each other you would realize that the body cavity is on the K-5 is significantly larger. Here is a pic I took a few years ago of a 16" arch top (same size as a K-5) next to a K-1 (about the same size as a K-4) so you can get an idea from that. The guitar was later converted to a K-5 style mandocello.

Walt Kuhlman

Aug-02-2013, 10:43pm

105075

Sludgehead: I do understand your sediments, but the roots of bluegrass created in the '30's don't jive with the first mandolins carved by Orville Gibson in the heart of the Art Nouveau movement. A very new design fitting for the time and movement.

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 10:51pm

Sludgehead: I do understand your sediments, but the roots of bluegrass created in the '30's don't jive with the first mandolins carved by Orville Gibson in the heart of the Art Nouveau movement. A very new design fitting for the time and movement.

I understand. I thought it was interesting that you pointed out the Art Nouveau look to it that I've never really noticed before.
For me, it just clicks in a way. It just gives off a classic yet country vibe. Has a sort of character to it.

Jordan Mong

Aug-02-2013, 11:50pm

I have to add that I just now found out that the mandocello used in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfqJRKnH1Zs
is the cheapest mandocello on Weber's catalog. According to a commenter, the price of this mandocello is $3,800. I really like the sound of this instrument, and it looks great. Any thoughts?

EDIT: http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=100
Third one down. Listed at $3,799, which fits my price range. Any thoughts are welcome.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-03-2013, 12:08am

You can't go far wrong with a Weber. The Gallatin has a more abbreviated scroll but the look is not bad at all to my eye. It has a mahogany back and sides rather than maple but that is not a problem for most.

mrmando

Aug-03-2013, 12:17am

I really like the sound of this instrument, and it looks great. Any thoughts?

Well, if you're cool with F-holes all of a sudden, it'll be a great instrument to have, and it looks like The Mandolin Store expects to get one in this month.

Jordan Mong

Aug-03-2013, 12:32am

Well, if you're cool with F-holes all of a sudden, it'll be a great instrument to have, and it looks like The Mandolin Store expects to get one in this month.

You can't go far wrong with a Weber. The Gallatin has a more abbreviated scroll but the look is not bad at all to my eye. It has a mahogany back and sides rather than maple but that is not a problem for most.
Thank you both, again. I think I've always been a mahogany fan, so I think I prefer the feature. It is a very lovely instrument.
I never minded the F-holes at all, though I do like the D-soundholes a bit more. I can absolutely put up with the F-holes, they look pretty nice and the sound is still quite amazing, if that video is anything to go by.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-03-2013, 6:20am

Well, if you're cool with F-holes all of a sudden, it'll be a great instrument to have, and it looks like The Mandolin Store expects to get one in this month.

I noticed that -- hey they must be making f-style mandocellos after all! :)

foldedpath

Aug-03-2013, 10:58am

Aside from the horrible sound quality in that video, that Gallatin looks nice and seems to have the "Weber tone" for these big instruments. The smaller peghead shape might actually be an advantage in the way it balances. The big Weber F-style instruments with traditional scroll pegheads are a little neck-heavy, since the body size isn't that large as a counterweight. I always use my F-style OM on a strap, for balance.

If you're leaning towards a Weber, I should mention that the Weber OM's (and I presume 'Cellos also) have fairly substantial neck profiles. The neck on my Yellowstone Traditional F OM is a fat U-shape, not the shallow arched neck some guitar players prefer. I don't know if it's structurally important or just Bruce Weber's personal preference.

It doesn't bother me at all, but I shift around to a lot of different instruments and I'm not too picky about neck profiles. A few people have posted comments here saying that they don't like the "clubby" necks on Weber OM's, so it's just something to be aware of. Especially if you're buying an instrument without trying it first.

Jim Garber

Aug-03-2013, 1:43pm

Stupid question, perhaps, but has anyone ever built an instrument in the mandolin family with three-string courses? I imagine that would be close to impossible on a mandolin or even mandola, but perhaps on larger family members like the octave mandolin and the mandocello, it may work.

Also, in addition to what Marty J refers to, Oscar Schmidt made truckloads of 12 string/triple strung bowlbacks at the earlier part of the 20th century. I would assume they were louder but harder to play and keep in tune. No advantage I can see for those. You can string them in octaves for an interesting tiple sound.

Jordan Mong

Aug-03-2013, 3:37pm

I have never played a triple-coursed instrument before, but I can't imagine them being comfortable, as even paired courses give me a bit of trouble at times.

About the neck shape, at the price, I don't think it should be much of a concern. It is a nice instrument over all, slight discomfort in the neck is something I can get used to. Narrow necks are what give me trouble.

Marty Jacobson

Aug-03-2013, 4:53pm

It is a nice instrument over all, slight discomfort in the neck is something I can get used to. Narrow necks are what give me trouble.

It's a mandocello... even the nicest 'cello is still a bit of a beast to play.

By the way, I think you are putting excess emphasis on the shape of the sound ports. In any instrument, absent bracing and soundboard design considerations, a circle or D shaped soundhole do pretty much exactly the same thing.

Further, a mandocello is going to sound like a mandocello, whether it's got f holes, centered circle sound hole, flat top, carved top, whatever. The variations in tone from mandocello to mandocello are more subtle than what you'd expect from smaller scale instruments.

I can usually tell very easily, blindfolded, if a mandolin being played is a flat top, arch top, f-holes, or centered sound hole. With a mandocello, it is much more difficult to tell how it was constructed. Even a ~$500 Wishnevsky mandocello made out of flat-sawn 2x12's from Home Depot with knots in it sounds like a mandocello.

If you're looking for the ultimate in tone, you probably want an archtop-guitar form factor with a centered sound hole, a nice wide lower bout and fairly long scale length (at least 25".. longer if you can handle it). But the F-style form factor can work, too, as Mike Marshall's Monteleone mandocello proves. Circumstantially, at least, as I assume Mike wouldn't be wearing it out if it weren't a good instrument. I have not heard it in person. Over YouTube, all mandocelli sound pretty much the same to me. The big exception would be a flat-top pin bridge, as in the case of the Santa Cruz mandocello, which is essentially a jumbo guitar with 4 courses and strung CGDA. That sounds more like a guitar to me (and this has been verified to me by a well-respected member of the forum here, who owned a SCGC 'cello).

Is that Gallatin 'cello really nearly $4k? Man, I need to make some 'cellos.

Walt Kuhlman

Aug-03-2013, 4:59pm

Hmmmmm Marty...not so sure about that...

Bernie Daniel

Aug-03-2013, 5:47pm

It's a mandocello... even the nicest 'cello is still a bit of a beast to play....

That is so true -- a mandocello is not just a large mandolin -- or even like you might imagine that playing a guitar with a mandolin string arrangement might be. It's a whole different world with it's own set of problems.

For starters you have an instrument tuned in 5ths that has guitar spacing between the frets this leads to a LOT more stretching to reach frets and moving the hand to other positions than on a guitar. Then you are pushing down two strings and they are not very light gauge ones either. Finally the average tension on a mandolin string is something like 22 lbs on a mandocello it is more like 35 lbs. It is a beast generally.

I...Is that Gallatin 'cello really nearly $4k? Man, I need to make some 'cellos.

Of course you should! :)

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-03-2013, 6:21pm

Mike Marshall's MC is an Oval-hole, no?

Bernie Daniel

Aug-03-2013, 6:58pm

Mike Marshall's MC is an Oval-hole, no?

Yes. I think Mike Marshall is the problem. He makes playing a mandocello seem so possible and actually it isn't! LOL!

Marty Jacobson

Aug-03-2013, 8:32pm

If MM is a problem, then Steve Smith is pretty problematic, too...

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Jordan Mong

Aug-03-2013, 8:53pm

That is so true -- a mandocello is not just a large mandolin -- or even like you might imagine that playing a guitar with a mandolin string arrangement might be. It's a whole different world with it's own set of problems.

For starters you have an instrument tuned in 5ths that has guitar spacing between the frets this leads to a LOT more stretching to reach frets and moving the hand to other positions than on a guitar. Then you are pushing down two strings and they are not very light gauge ones either. Finally the average tension on a mandolin string is something like 22 lbs on a mandocello it is more like 35 lbs. It is a beast generally.

I understand it is a totally new instrument, but I imagine the feel for it would be similar to that of a guitar or a bass. I really want to take on something new, and the size of the mandocello and the shape just makes it look like such a beautiful instrument. I love the tone, as well. I can play coursed strings fine, and the heavy gauge doesn't matter, much. I have a guitar with a bowing neck I need to fix, and playing that the past year has calloused my fingers pretty heavily.

Walt Kuhlman

Aug-03-2013, 10:03pm

I think you should go for it, lots of instruments to choose from, just don't short yourself by buying too cheap. Stay with the good stuff, things will be much easier on all levels. If it's finances, save a little, it will be worth it. Keep an eye on the classifieds, and eBay, if you find something of interest bring it up in a discussion, there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum.

Jordan Mong

Aug-03-2013, 10:49pm

This may be a silly question, but I notice mandolins have their own style of picks that guitars do not. Would I use this pick with a mandocello, or a guitar pick?

foldedpath

Aug-03-2013, 11:33pm

Mike Marshall's MC is an Oval-hole, no?

Yeah, and don't watch this video, because he makes it look way too easy. It's not this easy for us mere non-Marshall mortals:

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Marty Jacobson

Aug-03-2013, 11:35pm

I understand it is a totally new instrument, but I imagine the feel for it would be similar to that of a guitar or a bass.

Not really. It's a lot more effort than guitar or bass. But plenty worth it, you can't get that kind of driving, deep, booming tone any other way. It's a bit of a dinosaur, but when I have a good mandocello on hand, everything takes a back seat for a while.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-03-2013, 11:39pm

This may be a silly question, but I notice mandolins have their own style of picks that guitars do not. Would I use this pick with a mandocello, or a guitar pick?

Not so silly.

I find, compared to mandolins, that thinner picks seem to work best on mandocellos. Generally I like a Wegen TF-140 for mandolin and TF-100 for mandocello. Some times I even go down to 0.6 - 0.8 mm picks for mandocello.

I think it is because it makes the picking easier if the pick itself bends (or gives) a little -- as noted the mass and tension on mandocello strings are much greater than a mandolin so if you dug into it as deep as on a mandolin it might significantly slow you down? So you want the pick to slide off the string easier. That is my take.

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-04-2013, 12:04am

On the contrary, I use a heavier pick on a Mandocello - one of those stubbies - really gets the bass courses moving...

mrmando

Aug-04-2013, 12:44am

I'm using the 2.5mm Wegen Gypsy Jazz pick for mandocello. Sometimes I'll use the same pick for mandolin, sometimes not.

I had an even heavier pick I got from André Bissonnet that was perfect for mandocello. But it was getting worn down, so I retired it. If I ever get back to Paris I'll see if André can provide me with a few more.

Jordan Mong

Aug-04-2013, 1:19am

Not really. It's a lot more effort than guitar or bass. But plenty worth it, you can't get that kind of driving, deep, booming tone any other way. It's a bit of a dinosaur, but when I have a good mandocello on hand, everything takes a back seat for a while.

Sounds like an awesome instrument to play. I suppose it might take getting used to, but what instrument doesn't?

Marcus CA

Aug-04-2013, 11:38pm

...I imagine the feel for it would be similar to that of a guitar or a bass. I really want to take on something new, and the size of the mandocello and the shape just makes it look like such a beautiful instrument. I love the tone, as well. I can play coursed strings fine, and the heavy gauge doesn't matter, much.

I have only played bass a couple of times, but I would agree that the size of a mandocello feels very similar to a guitar. Santa Cruz Guitar Company has even made a few mandocellos using their Southerner guitar body --- neither an A model nor an F model. Eastman's MDC805 is similar, but is an archtop, yet is cheaper (due to where it is built). In terms of A vs. F models, I think that the more significant tonal difference comes from whether the instrument has a flat body or an arched one.

The main difference, though, is that in 1st position on guitar, your fingers have to cover the first four frets, but in 1st position on m'cello, they have to cover the first six. You may have to put in some work to cleanly hit that low F# (sixth fret on the C strings) with your pinky. The gauge of the low E on a guitar is in the mid-50's, but that mandocello C string is in the low 70's --- and there are two of them. But hey, you're young, so go for it! And yes, it is an AWESOME instrument to play!

Bernie Daniel

Aug-05-2013, 7:50am

....The main difference, though, is that in 1st position on guitar, your fingers have to cover the first four frets, but in 1st position on m'cello, they have to cover the first six. You may have to put in some work to cleanly hit that low F# (sixth fret on the C strings) with your pinky. The gauge of the low E on a guitar is in the mid-50's, but that mandocello C string is in the low 70's --- and there are two of them. But hey, you're young, so go for it! And yes, it is an AWESOME instrument to play!

Succinctly put. The 6th fret on both the C & G courses are frequently called for playing typical Celtic tunes. In addition, the run of F# to E to D (6th, 4th, 2nd fret C- course) is something that happens a lot. Playing mandocello can indeed can take a toll on the little finger of the left hand. It is possible to over do in when starting out and put that finger in a world of hurt for awhile. Maybe a warning label should come with a mandocello?

One of the advantages of playing mandocello is that after that everything else mandolin, mandola or octave seems like a toy. I'm not sure if you become a better mandolin player after the mandocello but you think that you are at least.

Jordan Mong

Aug-11-2013, 9:19pm

Mandolin already feels like a toy to me, with how oddly small it is. However, I am not saying that in the same way I would call something like a $20 ukulele a toy. Anyways, I have my heart set on getting one of these. The beauty and nice look of a mandolin, the size and feel of a guitar (and the size especially shows off the cool mando' look), and the classical sound and tone of a cello.
My pinky has gone through hell and back already when I tried to play Empyrium's music on my steel string (even on classical, they're music makes you stretch). Maybe some growing is still in order.

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-12-2013, 1:47pm

'Classic sound and tone of a Cello'.... not really.

Jordan Mong

Aug-12-2013, 7:40pm

'Classic sound and tone of a Cello'.... not really.

No, but it is bassy and can play cello music pretty well. If they rounded the bridge some more, the strings could have been bowable. Then what would it sound like?

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-12-2013, 8:58pm

...and fretless... and bigger bodied.... and....

Jordan Mong

Aug-12-2013, 11:42pm

...and fretless... and bigger bodied.... and....
You're not letting me have this one, are ya?

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-13-2013, 2:02am

I've had several Mandocellos... I like their sound... I wish they had that Cello vibe...

Jordan Mong

Aug-13-2013, 3:00am

They sometimes have F-holes. Cellos have F-holes.
Nonetheless, its an awesome instrument, and I've got some major MAS for some of these.

Greg Stec

Aug-15-2013, 8:58pm

They sometimes have F-holes. Cellos have F-holes.
Nonetheless, its an awesome instrument, and I've got some major MAS for some of these.

They ARE awesome instruments. I've been playing one in a mandolin orchestra since 1989. I volunteered to play it.
Please listen to one that has been making music with a variety of instruments, pro and amateur, since 1967.
Get a mandocello. Get a mandocello that is structurally sound, plays wells, sounds well and is within your current budget. Don't concern yourself over appearances. When the budget or luck allows you to get that better one, or the one that fulfills your MAS dreams, get it. And don't look back.
More than my 2 cents.
Greg

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-16-2013, 12:26am

Of all the Mandocellos I've owned and played, I'm still leaning towards the Gibson K1/K2...

Marcus CA

Aug-18-2013, 12:45pm

I love the tone of those vintage Gibsons, but I don't enjoy their baseball bat of a neck.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-18-2013, 3:03pm

I love the tone of those vintage Gibsons, but I don't enjoy their baseball bat of a neck.

Try to find a post 1921 model -- they have a much slimmer neck and of course a truss rod.

Jim Garber

Aug-18-2013, 3:31pm

Eddie Sheehy

Aug-18-2013, 5:05pm

Bernie Daniel

Aug-18-2013, 5:09pm

I have a 1937 Gibson K1 with a nice slim neck. I figured at that time they made few mandocelli and used a guitar neck. I did have a little problem with getting that action right but it plays nicely when set up right. I should take it out and see how it is doing -- it has been awhile. No baseball bat and it does have a truss rod. Still, it is not easy to play for me mostly mandolin and occasionally mandola player.

Do you happen to have a good hi res pic of the nut on your mandocello? I was interested in comparing it the on on mine (also '37) because there was and "extra" nut in the case pocket that I think is probably the original nut-- the one on the instrument now is not ideal.

Bernie Daniel

Aug-18-2013, 5:13pm

I have nice teens K1, while the neck is deeper than I'd like I prefer it to guitar necks of the Ovation and Eastman Mandocellos, and I certainly don't consider it a baseball bat... and it works very well for centering my thumb on the V while doing the 7th inning stretch across frets...

I agree Eddie that is how I remember the 1906 K-1 that I used to own (15 years ago) -- I think it was one of the very first mandocellos because the number was 8220 -- it looked a bit like it might have even been a prototype. But the neck was not a problem as I remember it.

Jim Garber

Aug-18-2013, 5:58pm

Do you happen to have a good hi res pic of the nut on your mandocello? I was interested in comparing it the on on mine (also '37) because there was and "extra" nut in the case pocket that I think is probably the original nut-- the one on the instrument now is not ideal.

I will dig it out of the closet and take a photo when I can. I am experiencing a bit of compute malfunction lately so it might take some time. Remind me if I haven't done it in a week or two.

Gerry Cassidy

Aug-19-2013, 2:45pm

I played this one http://www.acousticvibesmusic.com/catalog/images/tuxedocello.jpg at Acoustic Vibes last week. It was probably the nicest Weber Cello I have ever played. A little lacking in the low end, but the mids and highs were surprisingly nice & sparkly.

Jim Garber

Aug-19-2013, 3:12pm

Hmmm... mandocello lacking in the lowend? Isn't that the point of a mandocello?

Gerry Cassidy

Aug-19-2013, 3:24pm

Hmmm... mandocello lacking in the lowend? Isn't that the point of a mandocello?

I guess I should have been literal and stated this as "comparatively speaking". If you play enough mandocellos' you experience some that have more low end than others. I musn't make assumptions. I apologize.

Jim Garber

Aug-19-2013, 3:43pm

No, I agree. You do need some mid- and higher-range tones even on a mandocello.

Eddie Sheehy

Sep-12-2013, 2:57pm

Jim Garber

Sep-12-2013, 3:09pm

Eddie: I thought you were the designated test kitchen for the Cafe. :)

They have another one with a $600 BIN here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/390650847996). Strange... the first comes to $500 with shipping the second $750.

The scale length is a bit short for a mandocello:

Scale length: 22.83"=580mm

foldedpath

Sep-12-2013, 3:27pm

OK, who's going to be first to take a chance on this one...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solid-Curly-Maple-spruce-arch-top-mandocello-optima-string-MACP05-/380714013382?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a452d2c6

That body scroll is... unfortunate.

They're listing a scale length of 22.83" so it isn't really a 'Cello anyway; more of an octave mandolin that got hit with the ugly stick.

Eddie Sheehy

Sep-12-2013, 3:29pm

Shipping is $150, so $350 for one (starting bid) and $600 for the other (starting bid)... buy both and get shipping half off on the second one... Step right up, folks...

You could sell the hardcase to cover the shipping...

Jordan Mong

Sep-12-2013, 4:03pm

I wouldn't say it is too ugly, but the neck is a little fat.

Eddie Sheehy

Sep-12-2013, 5:38pm

Eddie Sheehy

Sep-12-2013, 5:44pm

Maybe "adjust" it to be a 10-string Cittern... I'm tempted...

Eddie Sheehy

Sep-12-2013, 5:46pm

That body scroll is... unfortunate.

They're listing a scale length of 22.83" so it isn't really a 'Cello anyway; more of an octave mandolin that got hit with the ugly stick.

That scroll reminds me of seeing the Crazy Horse monument back in the '80s when it was mostly drawn on the side of the mountain with one outcrop of rock pointing out (which was to become his index finger) into the distance...

Looks like it's coming along nicely, so there's hope for that scroll...

Eddie Sheehy

Sep-12-2013, 5:49pm

Of course "Air-Dried" is relative as to how dry the air is at the time...

Bernie Daniel

Sep-15-2013, 10:13am

I think the neck is ok for a mandocello... perhaps just a tad wide, but at that price...

Total length: 37.80"= 960mm

Width : 14.09"=358mm

Thickness : 3.13"=79.49mm

Nut width: 1.58"=40.04mm
Scale length: 22.83"=580mm

I agree those neck dimensions seem OK-- the nut is just right,

But as mentioned that scale length is too short for a mandocello. I agree a 10 string cittern -- GDAEB? -- sounds good. Might not be worth the effort though?