Ponderings about Gilchrist and Dudenbostel

[Winfield]

Curious as to whether these makers would be considered to fall under the more modern tonal spectrum? Anyone lucky enough to play both? Are there any builders that come close to getting either makers sound at half price?

[BradKlein]

One important difference between the two makers. There are a lot more Gilchrist mandolins in the world than Dudenbostels.

[grassrootphilosopher]

I have found some Gils (90ies, x-braced) to Sound "modern" (whatever that may imply to others), while I found some Gis (post millenium, tone bars) to sound traditional. I personally like the post 2000 (roughly dated) to sound better than the earlier ones, though Ronnie McCoury´s s-hole Gil (80ies?) sounds just great, Mark Stoffel´s early 90ies and a littermate to his sound great also.

I have just encountered one Dude that I listened to at a Jamsession under unfavorable acoustic conditions so I can´t say anything about it, though I´d like to play one to see what the hype is about.

To get a mandolin that comes close to a Gil at half its price you could get a Duff. Mine sounds very similar and just as good (to my ears) to all the earlier Gils. But I am partial to my mandolin.

[Wilbur James]

I played a Dudenbostul F5 that I feel is the best sounding mandolin, to my ears, that I have ever played, I am still trying to figure out how to make it mine, AS far as modern or traditional sounding, I feel that is speculation, I really like the sound of Matt Flinners Ghilchrist it is X braced and of course Comptons is a geat one as well, I have played many Ghilchrist Some are great and some I felt were lacking, but this goes back to how each individual instrument has its own voice.

[Gary Hedrick]

They are both fantastic builders. I have owned 2 Dudes and 1 Gil in my life. All great sounding and playing instruments.

Interesting aspect is (like said above) Gilchrist is in a class by himself because of the sheer numbers of truly good instruments he has made. Lynn is so amazing because his instruments were fantastic from #1 on. They both have their subtle characteristics and some will love this or that one. It is just great to be alive in this era.......sooooooo many great mandolins and so little time!!

I also like to ponder Kimble, Nugget and Monteleone too!!! and the Distressed Master Models ...

wish I had a million dollars laying around

[Winfield]

They are both fantastic builders. I have owned 2 Dudes and 1 Gil in my life. All great sounding and playing instruments.

Interesting aspect is (like said above) Gilchrist is in a class by himself because of the sheer numbers of truly good instruments he has made. Lynn is so amazing because his instruments were fantastic from #1 on. They both have their subtle characteristics and some will love this or that one. It is just great to be alive in this era.......sooooooo many great mandolins and so little time!!

I also like to ponder Kimble, Nugget and Monteleone too!!! and the Distressed Master Models ...

wish I had a million dollars laying around

Gary - jsut curious, have you ever played an Altman?

[Winfield]

They are both fantastic builders. I have owned 2 Dudes and 1 Gil in my life. All great sounding and playing instruments.

Interesting aspect is (like said above) Gilchrist is in a class by himself because of the sheer numbers of truly good instruments he has made. Lynn is so amazing because his instruments were fantastic from #1 on. They both have their subtle characteristics and some will love this or that one. It is just great to be alive in this era.......sooooooo many great mandolins and so little time!!

I also like to ponder Kimble, Nugget and Monteleone too!!! and the Distressed Master Models ...

wish I had a million dollars laying around

Gary - just curious, have you ever played an Altman?

[JFDilmando]

Although the Altman question was not addressed to me, I will just jump in with the following: I have owned an "pre-Loarish" Altman at the same time as a GREAT Gilchrist, that was owned and used by DG on one of his CD's... Bob Altman's instrument held up right next to the Gil... In fact, I think it was a little brighter up the neck than the Gil.... gil might have been a bit more "complex" in overtones, whatever that means to anyone...

They both were flawless in fit and finish... amazing work.

[Winfield]

Thanks for the reply John. I had heard from someone else one the forum that Bob Altman had used a Gilchrist and a Loar as prototypes when building his first mandos. Then went more for the Loar sound at a later date.

[sunburst]

Anyone lucky enough to play both? Are there any builders that come close to getting either makers sound at half price?

Lots. The market is not all about sound, after all.

[CES]

Lots. The market is not all about sound, after all.

I recently had the pleasure of taking a road trip to to Nashville where I got to spend some time in Carter Vintage and Gruhn's. Got to play my first Loars, mando and mandola (truly awesome, but not worth 150-160 thousand more than the others on the wall from a tone/playability standpoint, at least not in my hacker's hands), a couple of Gils, many vintage Gibsons (though mostly A-styles), and a Giacomel. Carter had a Duff as well, but everytime I put down one of the others the Duff was in someone else's hands, so I never actually played it...sounded great, though. I've also recently had the pleasure of playing Josh Pinkham's Red Diamond (which I think sell for 10-12,000, though I haven't formally priced them). Have heard (though not played) an awesome Kimble as well.

Of the ones I've played recently, the Giacomel was my favorite, which totally surprised me. They look really weird in pictures, but in person, and in my hands, it just worked. Tone and volume to die for, and played like a dream. The notes seemed to jump out of the f-holes. My wife was genuinely concerned I was going to try to talk her into letting me buy it, but I know I'm not worthy yet.

The Red Diamond was also spectacular, though it was definitely more "played in" than the Gils. It's hard for me to compare the tone since I didn't play them side by side, but the Red Diamond was voiced after Reischman's Loar. The Gils were exceptional, but to my ears they weren't necessarily better than the RD or Giacomel.

I played at least one maker's instrument in whom I was disappointed, though there could have been many factors affecting my perception at the time (like playing it next to a Loar and the Gils, and the fact that it needed new strings). Workmanship was exceptional, but it just didn't want to give up the tone and volume. B/C I've heard nothing but good things otherwise about this builder, I'll keep silent based on my suboptimal n of 1 (and no, sunburst, wasn't one of yours ;))

In short, yes, there are builders that can get you that tone for probably even a 1/4 of the price of a Dude or Gil. If I were personally in that market, that Giacomel would have come home with me (I was really smitten), but there are a number of other builders I'd consider as well. Anyway, thanks to Carter's and Gruhn's for a great Saturday!

[Eddie Sheehy]

I have a Gil Gibson F4/F5 conversion - the top is pure Gil 1996 and is x-braced - the neck is a conversion from the original short F4 to an extended F5 - the rest of the mandolin is original 1920 F4. Of course I don't have a Gil or Loar to compare it to... but I did swap with Shaun Garrity's Gil for a few tunes at Topanga even though it's hard to tell in an outdoor noisy setting - not that I'd really know what I'm looking for in a Bluegrass mandolin anyway - but I quite enjoy playing it, as I enjoyed playing the Gil - and they both sounded 'different' to each other.

[William Smith]

I recently had the pleasure of taking a road trip to to Nashville where I got to spend some time in Carter Vintage and Gruhn's. Got to play my first Loars, mando and mandola (truly awesome, but not worth 150-160 thousand more than the others on the wall from a tone/playability standpoint, at least not in my hacker's hands), a couple of Gils, many vintage Gibsons (though mostly A-styles), and a Giacomel. Carter had a Duff as well, but everytime I put down one of the others the Duff was in someone else's hands, so I never actually played it...sounded great, though. I've also recently had the pleasure of playing Josh Pinkham's Red Diamond (which I think sell for 10-12,000, though I haven't formally priced them). Have heard (though not played) an awesome Kimble as well.

Of the ones I've played recently, the Giacomel was my favorite, which totally surprised me. They look really weird in pictures, but in person, and in my hands, it just worked. Tone and volume to die for, and played like a dream. The notes seemed to jump out of the f-holes. My wife was genuinely concerned I was going to try to talk her into letting me buy it, but I know I'm not worthy yet.

The Red Diamond was also spectacular, though it was definitely more "played in" than the Gils. It's hard for me to compare the tone since I didn't play them side by side, but the Red Diamond was voiced after Reischman's Loar. The Gils were exceptional, but to my ears they weren't necessarily better than the RD or Giacomel.

I played at least one maker's instrument in whom I was disappointed, though there could have been many factors affecting my perception at the time (like playing it next to a Loar and the Gils, and the fact that it needed new strings). Workmanship was exceptional, but it just didn't want to give up the tone and volume. B/C I've heard nothing but good things otherwise about this builder, I'll keep silent based on my suboptimal n of 1 (and no, sunburst, wasn't one of yours ;))

In short, yes, there are builders that can get you that tone for probably even a 1/4 of the price of a Dude or Gil. If I were personally in that market, that Giacomel would have come home with me (I was really smitten), but there are a number of other builders I'd consider as well. Anyway, thanks to Carter's and Gruhn's for a great Saturday!

Hey Buddy, Did ya get to play the 2 20's Ferns at Carters?, I really wonder about them, How they compared to the Gils/Loar, The "Mildred Fern" That has got my eye but no way in the pit of HXXX could I afford her!

[DataNick]

This thread is nothing but trouble!

I just bought a Ratliff Country Boy F custom made for me and here I go again...LOL!

Good thing there's no wifey to get on my case, Holy Toledo!

[yankees1]

Check out a Heiden while you are at it !

[PJ Doland]

You asked about getting either makers sound at "half price."

My Dude 1A was significantly less than half the price of his F5 models. Gilchrist makes an A3 Jr. that is also far less expensive when compared to his F models.

Prices get much more reasonable if you're willing to drop the straphanger, back-binding, and inlay fixation.

[William Smith]

Prices get much more reasonable if you're willing to drop the straphanger, back-binding, and inlay fixation.

But I love having a inlay fixation!, I know it doesn't make em sound any better but:mandosmiley:

[Eddie Sheehy]

It don't got that swing if it ain't got that bling...

[tmsweeney]

Played one Gil F5 about 7 years ago
Played one Dude F5 just last winter

the Dude was pretty new and while it was a slick as butter
I am kind of leaning towards the Gil for tone.

but Both super mandos to be sure

[Don Grieser]

I've bought and sold a bunch of mandolins, including mandos from most of the makers talked about in this thread--maybe even as many as sgarrity. :grin: I got on the list and got a late 1999 Gilchrist Model 5 (red spruce, tone bars, rock maple) and I know of 5 people who played it at festivals and jams and ordered a Gilchrist for themselves.

What I've found is that a lot of builders can get you around 80% there, but there's an extra bit of tonal something that I hear and feel with the Gilchrist. YMMV

[almeriastrings]

Are there any builders that come close to getting either makers sound at half price?

In my experience, it is pretty simple. If you like/want a Gilchrist - buy one. If you like/want a Dudenbostel - buy one. If you want to keep the expenditure down, get an A-model.

If you buy ANYTHING else it will always (in your head) rate as "2nd best". Not good. You will always be dissatisfied in some way or other.

On the other hand... you could just start playing lots of mandolins with a totally open mind and no specific preconceptions. You might be surprised.

[grassrootphilosopher]

The market is not all about sound, after all.


... you could just start playing lots of mandolins with a totally open mind and no specific preconceptions. You might be surprised.

These comments are as good advice as you will ever get. It´s not about the name on the headstock alone.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

The discussion reminds me of the question, if one could live from pills only. Almeria, is there such thing as a "totally open mind"? The sender-receiver model is a theory we learned at elementary school, but to me it seems unrealistic. Well okay, we can try to be open minded. But then again, doesn't Mon's mandolin sound and look just terrific?:)

[Gary Hedrick]

Gary - just curious, have you ever played an Altman?

No I have not. Heard great things about them though.......I have been very lucky in my life to have owned and played a number of great instruments. I have hosted picking parties where we have in attendance 50 or so mandolins....Loars, Ferns, F7's, F4's Master Models, Nuggets, Gils, Monteleones, Red Diamonds, Heidens, Kimbles, even a Zeidler and dozens more......

The point to these was to have picking sessions in different parts of the house....one room with all the mandolins laid out and one rule...if the mandolin is laid out it is fair game to be picked up and played. These gave a lot of folks a chance to play instruments in a jam session to really understand the differences......(5 sessions going on and 75 to 100 folks and lasting from 2pm to 2am)

Having Michael Cleveland holding court in my master bathroom with 6 others all playing mandolins and doing every fiddle tune known to man for hours is one of my fondest memories.....

[AlanN]

Having Michael Cleveland holding court in my master bathroom with 6 others all playing mandolins and doing every fiddle tune known to man for hours is one of my fondest memories.....

Gary, please tell me you changed the sheets afterwards...:mandosmiley:

[almeriastrings]

But then again, doesn't Mon's mandolin sound and look just terrific?:)

Well, it certainly looks well-worn, to say the least.... I believe it looked pretty good when he first got it. Had a lot of miles on it since, and the "poker incident" did not exactly help :whistling:

Unfortunately, I never got to play it or hear it really close up, so I honestly can't say for sure what it sounds likes. I never judge anything my recordings alone. I have played a couple of other "iconic" instruments, and one impressed me, the other didn't. They both recorded very well, though.

[Gary Hedrick]

well Alan he was in the Master BATH.....which is even a little more weird I suppose until you see the room.......we bought a house that has a 20 x 12 room.....it is more like a garden than a bath.....pull up the folding chairs and go to town....

[DataNick]

well Alan he was in the Master BATH.....which is even a little more weird I suppose until you see the room.......we bought a house that has a 20 x 12 room.....it is more like a garden than a bath.....pull up the folding chairs and go to town....

Dude, no video?

[Gary Hedrick]

nah....I was too busy playing and hosting ......Andrew Jerman posted photos from one of the jams on the Café. I may have some more that I could post...I'll look....

Donnie Anderson who won Winfield many years ago was one of the pickers with Michael....there were around 6 or 7 going at it...

[Gary Hedrick]

Since I have hijacked the thread....I'll go ahead and post these from a "gee look at all the mandolins" perspective105009105010105011105012

[Gary Hedrick]

and more105013105014105015105016105017105018


and these don't count all the ones that were in folks hands being played....

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

Well, it certainly looks well-worn, to say the least.... I believe it looked pretty good when he first got it. Had a lot of miles on it since, and the "poker incident" did not exactly help :whistling:

Unfortunately, I never got to play it or hear it really close up, so I honestly can't say for sure what it sounds likes. I never judge anything my recordings alone. I have played a couple of other "iconic" instruments, and one impressed me, the other didn't. They both recorded very well, though.

Just goes to show yah.....a woman scorned....keep the ladies in your lives happy gents, or your mandos could end up bearing the brunt like Bill's did.....she knew where to "poker" him where it hurt the most....ouch!!

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

and more105013105014105015105016105017105018


and these don't count all the ones that were in folks hands being played....

DUDE.....wow!!

[William Smith]

Gary, Well I think Now I'll be needin to change my sheets! Thanks for sharing the pictorials.

[Pete Martin]

Does it count I got my Gil from Lynn?

[Gary Hedrick]

Gary, Well I think Now I'll be needin to change my sheets! Thanks for sharing the pictorials.

You're welcome......but from what I remember reading your collection ain't too shabby either!!

[f5joe]

Like anything, there are lots of mandolins to ponder, especially these days. I am blessed with Dude #2. It has always had a very vintage tone to my ears. At 17, she's aging nicely and very sweet to my ears. About ten years ago I got a Duff new from Paul and, again, I'm blessed. Just a wonderful instrument.

I've played many Loars, Ferns, Gilchrists. I'd own most of them if I could. You have to find a balance of what you want afford vs. tonal expectations. Again, lots to pick from these days.

I just wish this arthritis would back off of my left hand.

[f5loar]

Just goes to show yah.....a woman scorned....keep the ladies in your lives happy gents, or your mandos could end up bearing the brunt like Bill's did.....she knew where to "poker" him where it hurt the most....ouch!! I think Bill was pretty happy it was only the mandolins that got the axe pokers. It could have been something closer and more personal to Bill! Was this about the time Lorena Bobbitt was making headlines in the news? Most men have not forgotten that story! :disbelief:

[Eric Michael Pfeiffer]

I think Bill was pretty happy it was only the mandolins that got the axe pokers. It could have been something closer and more personal to Bill! Was this about the time Lorena Bobbitt was making headlines in the news? Most men have not forgotten that story! :disbelief:

Oh my goodness......

[Gary Hedrick]

Like anything, there are lots of mandolins to ponder, especially these days. I am blessed with Dude #2. It has always had a very vintage tone to my ears. At 17, she's aging nicely and very sweet to my ears. About ten years ago I got a Duff new from Paul and, again, I'm blessed. Just a wonderful instrument.

I've played many Loars, Ferns, Gilchrists. I'd own most of them if I could. You have to find a balance of what you want afford vs. tonal expectations. Again, lots to pick from these days.

I just wish this arthritis would back off of my left hand.

but confess...you among all folks that are Dudely have played a ton of very very good instruments ....those many that have crossed Lynn's door......You indeed are in a position to comment with authority as to what is what.....

[f5joe]

but confess...you among all folks that are Dudely have played a ton of very very good instruments ....those many that have crossed Lynn's door......You indeed are in a position to comment with authority as to what is what.....

Gary, indeed I've had opportunity to see a number of fine instruments at Lynn's during his earlier years. Not so much of late. My main source of exposure should be credited to Darryl Wolfe, Tom Isenhour and a number of close friends who swim in very deep waters. I am blessed in that regard for sure.

[Gary Hedrick]

Well with the rest of the story, then I double down on what I said and you are even more of an authority with that lots of exposure to Tom and Darryl........

"thems potent people" you are dealing with there....