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Milan Christi
Feb-09-2005, 11:52am
I haven't come across many vintage Gibsons since I've lived in Europe but today I ran across a 1914 A4 in pretty decent condition. The tuners have been changed and a saddle pickup was installed. It had been played by a pro for about 30 years.

Naturally it shows signs of wear but structurally it's completely sound - speaking of sound - it really sounds nice!! I would not be considering this as an investment per se - I'd want to play this thing.

The price was equivalent to about $1500.

Whaddaya think??

Jim M.
Feb-09-2005, 11:53am
If it's in as good a shape as you say, it's probably under market value a bit here in the U.S., though I'm not quite sure how much less value is caused by the non-original tuners. I know old Gibsons tend to be even more expensive in Europe, so I'd say snap it up at that price if it sounds good. I'll buy it if you don't want it. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Darryl Wolfe
Feb-09-2005, 12:08pm
I agree..particularly if it is a black top (which some folks deem more desirable)

Bob A
Feb-09-2005, 1:02pm
From looking at European prices for US instruments at various websites, it seems to me that Martin and Gibson instruments are usually priced at levels I'd consider breathtaking here in the USA. If you have a chance to get a quality instrument at low US price levels, jump on it!

Milan Christi
Feb-09-2005, 1:24pm
Thanks folks!! The fellow that has this instrument for sale is a guy I've been doing business with since 1991. I'm going back to look at it and play it some more within the next week. It's not a black-face, in fact it's quite red! The wifey is almost convinced that I "need" this so I'll be sure to post pics if I buy it. If not I'll post some pics anyway in case someone else is sincerely intereted.

Thank you so much for your quick responses!!
Milan

Milan Christi
Feb-17-2005, 12:34pm
OK so the excitement of the moment got the better of me. This is not an A4. But I can't for the life of me figure out the rest of the puzzle. I brought the axe home "on approval" for a couple weeks. I've attached some pics below to help you visualize my descriptiuon. When I shot the photo of the back the light reflected off part of the finish and gives the impression that there's a large groove or vault on the back. That is not the case. The back is a carved, two-piece back.
Here are the particulars. (Part of the label has been eroded away but I can make out the following info.)

Blonde top – one ring of purfling – binding around sound hole
Top and back are bound
Fingerboard is not bound
Back – two-piece (sure looks like mahogany)
Sides – (sure looks like mahogany)

Label – large “Guaranteed”
Serial number: 115X5 – (you can see the rounded top of the fourth digit so it’s either a 2, 3, 8, 9 or 0.
FON: 811

Signed by:
Looks like Mia--------
Could be Marc, Mary, Marv
Last name Jxxxxxxx with possibly an “s” like Johnson or something similar.

If anyone spends any time trying to decipher this puzzle, let me thank you in advance for your kind assistance!!
Milan

Milan Christi
Feb-17-2005, 12:36pm
The back.

Milan Christi
Feb-17-2005, 12:37pm
The front

Darryl Wolfe
Feb-17-2005, 12:50pm
That is a straight A..maybe A-1 due to the logo...from about 1911/1912. The logo looks a bit odd (maybe added), but could be a holdover from several years earlier

Milan Christi
Feb-17-2005, 1:14pm
Wow! Many thanks for the speedy reply!! Is is possible that the neck was replaced? The finish on the peghead is in much better condition than the rest of the instrument. The logo is inlaid and appears to be mop.

Nonetheless - I can get a great price - lower than the original quote. I put some TI-stark strings on it and it really sounds nice. Plays well, too. I have a Weber Yellowstone with a radiused fingerboard but I have no problems zipping all over this flat fingerboard.

(Sure hope I don't get hooked on this "vintage" business - it is a lot of fun.)

Thanks again
Milan

Darryl Wolfe
Feb-17-2005, 2:01pm
The neck doesnt appear to be replace, but something is fishy on the peghead...maybe (or maybe not) the logo was inlaid and the PH refinned. Tuners are new, but the drill holes are in original position..hence buttons are located higher than supposed to be..bridge not orig. Appears to be a nicely set-up working mando....that is usually the key with these things

Milan Christi
Feb-17-2005, 2:17pm
Great eyes! The machines look almost new. I have no idea what brand they are but they're very nice. The bridge has been replaced and a Fishman pickup installed. The end piece is also not original but all of the original parts are in the case.

And you're right - it's set up to a tee and sounds really nice. And since I'm not a collector (gulp, yet) I just want to have a nice-sounding A. And I think I found one.

I truly appreciate your time and interest. Even though I don't plan on collecting I like knowing what the heck I have.

Milan

Jack Roberts
Feb-17-2005, 3:12pm
Milan:
For fun I am attaching a photo of my 1918 A-1. You can see the similarities. Note the differences: the 1918 model has a bound fingerboard. "The Gibson" script differs and is set at a steeper angle. Double inlay around the oval. But this one has been beat up quite a bit. (cigarette burn on the sound hole, for example.)

How do you like the TI starks? I just ordered a set of TI mittels, I am afraid starks might be too heavy for this mandolin, and it certainly does not need any more sound.

Jack

Darryl Wolfe
Feb-17-2005, 3:52pm
This is a 1918 "A' that I just refinished. #The original mandolin was just like the two above (orange top w/reddish brown sides). #Being a straight "A", this has no logo...and the rosette is single rope.

Milan Christi
Feb-17-2005, 4:24pm
Jack said
Note the differences: the 1918 model has a bound fingerboard. "The Gibson" script differs and is set at a steeper angle. Double inlay around the oval.

Cool!
Although I'm intrigued by all of this intrigue. Now I have to sharpen my eyes and start searching the web. That slope of the logo gets me wondering.

Jack said
How do you like the TI starks? I just ordered a set of TI mittels, I am afraid starks might be too heavy for this mandolin, and it certainly does not need any more sound.

The starks aren't all that "stark" tension-wise. They're about 14 pounds lighter than J-74s. (Although the mittels are 24 pounds lighter than the starks.) Overall I really, really like the TIs. I was afriad I'd get hooked. They make my Weber sound really sultry. I had J-62s, J-74s and Sam Bush strings on the Gibson for a test drive and then tried the TIs. Hehehe - I'm hooked. (yes, three sets in three days - I'm a pick and strings freak)
Milan



f5journl said
This is a 1918 "A' that I just refinished. The original mandolin was just like the two above (orange top w/reddish brown sides). Being a straight "A", this has no logo...and the rosette is single rope.

Schweeet! You're a lefty I see. Super fine-looking refinishing. That is a talent I do NOT posess. Do you think it's a good idea to have mine refinished? Since this one is already de-originalized it might be nice to have it looking all spruced up.
Milan

keithd
Feb-17-2005, 4:30pm
f5journl,

That is a really beautiful finish! Is black top/brown sides typically found in A's or more typical in the F-2's and 4's? What kind of finish medium is it? Thanks for sharing all your amzing restoration projects here.

Keith

Darryl Wolfe
Feb-17-2005, 4:45pm
I would not refinish any mandolin unless necessary by the misguided attemtps of others.

Many an A-model are black top..they vary through different periods of time as to which model could/should be black...almost like it was an option or "better" in early 1910's and a way to cover up/make cheaper later.

I'm not left handed, but the client wanting the mando is.

That particular finish is a composite of nitro and shellac. #Nitro as a sealer on most of it with shellac top coating for the correct look. #The black nitro has no top coat, but has been distressed for the right look (see builders\mandolin label thread)

Milan Christi
Feb-17-2005, 4:56pm
I would not refinish any mandolin unless necessary by the misguided attemtps of others.
Ha Ha!! Noted for sure - I'm glad there are folks out there who care enough about keeping rookies like me out of trouble:D

Actually I've never owned a new instrument because I like to play the ones that are already broken in. (Lost my mind just for a moment!! Thx!!)

Jack Roberts
Feb-17-2005, 8:49pm
I just put the TI mittels on my A-1. Bad choice. What sounds good on my other mandolins doesn't work on this one. I'm going back to the D'A 74s as soon as I can get a set.

I found that my tuners are quite worn, some have a lot of play in them. I well, I should have some play in me when I'm 90 years old!

Jack

Paul Hostetter
Feb-17-2005, 11:10pm
Among the possible reasons for the odd look of the headstock is that the new Schaller gears look so out of place. The headstock was designed for the button shafts to be below the posts, old style, as with the others pictured above. They're also gold plated, which looks odd on an old Gibson, not to mention the pearloid plastic buttons. And the logo "The Gibson," as Darryl noted, doesn't look right. That was ordinarily reserved for the 4s. But at that price, who cares about any of this? If it sounds good, there you go. You can dial in the aesthetics later.

danb
Feb-18-2005, 3:23pm
The peghead logo isn't far off from ones from the late 20's.. maybe it is a new peghead overlay or neck, for that matter?