Looking to buy nice mandolin. Why so expensive? [Archive]

Racer X

Jun-16-2013, 9:52am

Hey folks, I'm new here. I've plucked around with mandolins here and there but never owned a nice one. I'm an electric guitarist mainly. I've got around 30 in my collection including vintage strats, Les Pauls, and many non-vintage, high quality guitars. The 3 acoustic guitars I have are a Taylor, an old Guild and Collings.

So I'm looking at mandolins now. I live in Nashville and the selection of used is generally pretty large. I know little about the instrument other than they sound unique and beautiful to my ears. But the question that is always on my mind when looking at the new and used mandolins is, why in the world are the good ones so expensive? What I'm seeing is that the good mandolins are $4000 and up. Why? I can buy a really good Martin guitar for much less than that. My Taylor cost half of that. The last Les Paul I bought was $1500. What is so unique about a mandolin that makes it worth $4000-$10,000? Is it because there are less of them? Supply and demand? Materials?

Chip Booth

Jun-16-2013, 10:01am

Factory made flatop vs hand carved arch top. The cost difference is similar in the guitar world as well.

Welcome to the Cafe!

houseworker

Jun-16-2013, 10:50am

Some Nashville dealers value on the high side (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1957-GIBSON-F-5-MANDOLIN-OWNED-BY-DUANE-EDDY-SINCE-1958-/121123758804?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3389e2d4).

journeybear

Jun-16-2013, 10:52am

"Good" is a frame of mind and a matter of taste, and will vary widely from person to person. I have a 1917 plain A oval hole that I got from eBay about five years ago for about $900, and it sounds great. And this is something that was bottom-of-the-line back then, with no frills - not even a logo inlay in the headstock - for entry level buyers or those with small budgets. Even so, it was made well and has aged well. I don't know what will be suitable for you, but you might want to try looking for something like this instead of brand new high-ticket items.

These days, no frills and low budget items could mean something like a $49 Rogue. I'm not recommending this, nor do I imagine these will age as well as old Gibsons, but I believe that is more or less the equivalent of what an A model was back then (though surely back then these were handcrafted and thus better made than Rogues and such). Of course, the more you spend the more you get - that's usually the case - and the price-value relationship is always on a sliding scale.

Of your three questions at the end of your post, I would say supply and demand is the biggest factor. Guitars represent a much bigger share of the market for acoustic instruments than mandolins. Instrument makers are more interested in meeting the demand for guitars because of its high volume. Also, as Chip mentioned, flat tops are easier to produce. Overall, mandolins are more labor-intensive than guitars, especially F-models, so production costs per instrument are higher.

If there are music stores near you where you can try out a range of mandolins, do so. You may be surprised at how good mid-range mandolins sound. Once you get an idea of what you're looking for, shop around the intenet for bargains - or support your lcal store. Whatever will put your mind at ease.

Good luck, and welcome to the Café! :mandosmiley:

FLATROCK HILL

Jun-16-2013, 10:54am

Racer X,
Your question has been asked and the answers discussed on this forum before. Take some time and search the old threads, I'm sure you'll find lots of opinions.
I think a lot of us suffered some 'sticker-shock' after discovering what it costs to get a nice quality mandolin.
At least you live in an area where you'll be able to see, hear and try some nice instruments. Here in the Northern Ohio area, when you walk into a music store and ask where they keep the mandolins, they just give you a blank stare. Then they might mumble and point at a plywood ukulele hanging next to the plastic flutes they sell to the elementary school kids. At least that's been my experience.
At any rate, welcome to the Cafe. Give my best to Speed, Spritle, Pops and Chim Chim too!

Jim

Jun-16-2013, 10:59am

While I completely agree that American Made Mandolins can get very expensive, there are a number of very fine instruments in the $1500/$2000 area. There is a lot of work that goes into a fine archtop instrument and there is a premium payed to have certain name on the machine head. I am always amazed at the prices certain solid body electric guitars bring beacause in IMHO they are not that hard to make. The market seems to be there at that price point though.

Mandobar

Jun-16-2013, 11:28am

Price of a Collings dread or OM guitar is around 4 to 5k. Price of a Collings archtop....if you can find one is 12k to 22k. Why are violins so expensive? Same reason. The carved topped instruments are more labor intensive.

JeffD

Jun-16-2013, 12:02pm

As you have seen, a mandolin generally costs about twice as much as a guitar of comparable quality.

The biggest reason is simply there are so few mandolin players. The guitar is arguably the most popular instrument on the planet, and all kinds of production infrastructure has been developed over the years to serve that market, from high volume manufacture of parts and pieces and assembly, to established distributors and distribution systems. Its all there.

The mandolin is, by comparison, a niche instrument. At least in the US. In Nashville and Austin, and a few other places, and for bluegrass enthusiasts, the mandolin is pretty common, but most of the country could not tell you which instrument is the mandolin, given two guesses. So not as many are made and not as many makers, not as much competition, not many high volume manufacturers, not as many choices for the consumer... its just an entirely different market.

Good luck and welcome to the café, I look forward to hearing from you.

SternART

Jun-16-2013, 12:51pm

And like many threads will say........if you use the archives.......lose the scroll and you get more sound for your money. That extra fabrication labor for the strap hanger adds to the cost.

Markus

Jun-16-2013, 4:03pm

A Collings MT costs a bit more tha half your figure, is by no means a bad instrument. I think that your price should be $2k+ to start to find some serious quality (Silverangel, Pava, etc).

Raggle Taggle

Jun-16-2013, 5:08pm

Many mandolins made in North America, due to a much lower demand, are "custom shop" builds. In the electric guitar world, of which I have had some recent exposure to, it appears that even the big F and G "custom or master builds are pretty expensive. Collings is essentially a custom shop for everything (kind of like John Suhr guitars) but they do offer some loss leaders built on spec. Also, if instruments (and components) are made by lower cost labor that may be reflected in the price. Some builders are getting established so they work cheaper and some just build for the love of it and cater to a certain price market.

I imagine some of the $4.5K I spent waiting for my Collings electric guitar to be built helped to subsidize some of the Collings mandolins (which as mentioned above are fairly priced).

peter.coombe

Jun-16-2013, 6:50pm

What is so unique about a mandolin that makes it worth $4000-$10,000? Is it because there are less of them? Supply and demand? Materials?

I get this sort of thing all the time. Answer is the labour involved in making a mandolin is high. It is also unfair to compare prices of factory made instruments with hand made, so make sure you are comparing apples with apples. It takes me around 100 hours to make an A type mandolin. Multiply that by a reasonable hourly rate, add material costs and that is why they cost what they do. How much does your plumber or mechanic charge by the hour?

Grommet

Jun-17-2013, 3:18am

Hi RX- You've certainly played enough quality instruments to know one when you pick it up an play. You'll know it when you find the mandolin that you are looking for. There many mandolins of comparable quality to the guitars you mentioned which can be purchased in the oh, let's say $1650 and up range for an A style (used Collings MT for instance). For A style mandolins, 4 Gs would put you into custom order A-Styles from some of the premier US small shop builders (Ellis for example). Some newer US builders who are quickly gaining popularity would build you a custom instrument for much less (Morris, Gerarrd, Newell, Jacobson, and many others). F-Styles cost more due to the added labor. Those lovely Two Points lie in between A's and F's in cost. Truly, most custom Fs and many small shop Fs wolud start around 4-5 Gs. And worth every penny. But, a used Dearstone FM5 in the Classifieds now for $2950 would qualify as nice for many. Keith Newell just sold one of his custom Fs in the Classifieds for $2,000 (somebody really scored a deal there). Take your time, watch the Classifieds here, and haunt Gruhn's, Cotten's and Big Joe's till you see the quality you want at your price point. Of course if you are going to end up with 30 mandolins to go with your guitar collection, might as well get started! Enjoy the Hunt!

Scott

Racer X

Jun-17-2013, 10:10am

I get this sort of thing all the time. Answer is the labour involved in making a mandolin is high. It is also unfair to compare prices of factory made instruments with hand made, so make sure you are comparing apples with apples. It takes me around 100 hours to make an A type mandolin. Multiply that by a reasonable hourly rate, add material costs and that is why they cost what they do. How much does your plumber or mechanic charge by the hour?

Thanks for all the replies, folks. And Peter, I certainly meant no offense to the builders of fine instruments like yours. I know it is a labor of love. As for plumbing, I do my own. So I know what rolls downhill, and I never bite my fingernails. :grin:

dcoventry

Jun-18-2013, 9:39am

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/66895
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/66883
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/66840
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/66775
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/66741

These are all examples of great guitars that are similar in price to a great mando, but probably took much less time to build.

Tim2723

Jun-18-2013, 10:46am

Does anyone have a good handle on the actual guitar to mandolin ratio? I wouldn't be surprised if it were 1000:1 or better.

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-18-2013, 11:29am

Mandolins have alot of hand carving and time consuming work involved in the construction. However their are some relatively new and small builders out there that can build you a nice custom mandolin for under U$S 2,000. I know of a luthier in Tennessee who is a relatively new builder but building some great quality, hand-made/built mandolins for a VERY reasonable price. I am sure he would be happy to build you a nice "F" model for around U$S 1800. If you're interested, send me a POM I'll be glad to share you his contact details.

acousticphd

Jun-18-2013, 12:23pm

Hey Racer,
We're Nashville neighbors. I would agree with what has been said above, especially that there is not much comparison between better carved mandolins, and solid-body electrics and flattop acoustics, and secondly that you don't have to spend anywhere near the kind of money you mention, unless you are set on a certain shape and a certain list of makes. I own 6-7 good, hand-made A-style mandolins, that cost me between $900-$1400. There are mandolins I expect you would agree were good instruments from anywhere $500-$600 and up. Ask and you'll receive any number of recommendations (that will continue long after you have stopped reading the thread!).

Clement Barrera-Ng

Jun-18-2013, 12:34pm

These are all examples of great guitars that are similar in price to a great mando, but probably took much less time to build.

Maybe I've been around here too long, but 4K for a high quality, handmade mandolin is actually quite reasonable (even though it's still way over my pay grade). I've heard that it takes anywhere from 150 to 200+ hours to finish a quality mandolin, and for a 5K instrument, the hourly wage comes to $25 - $33/hr. That's more than reasonable in my mind.

Steve Sorensen

Jun-18-2013, 12:42pm

allenhopkins

Jun-19-2013, 12:19am

Well: you own a Collings guitar, right? Per the 2012 Collings price list (http://www.tfoa.eu/treasures/content_id/186) printed here, their cheapest guitar costs $4K list, and they offer MT mandolins as low as $2745.

You can buy some very nice Weber A-models for less than $3K. If you define "good" as "Gibson F-model or small-builder F-model," even then you can find F-9's (if there were any in stock) for less than $4K.

And as several have pointed out, there are hundreds of quality acoustic and electric guitars being sold daily, for every mandolin. Chances of running across a "bargain" Martin guitar are much greater than a "bargain" Gibson F-model mandolin.

I have an eclectic mixture of vintage American and contemporary Asian or European mandolin-family instruments, and -- buying largely used -- I've found prices on both sides of the "normal" mandolin-guitar equivalencies. I'd say, play all the instruments you can find in your preferred price range (should be a large selection around Nashville), and see what you think then.

Ivan Kelsall

Jun-19-2013, 2:12am

It's possible to buy a really good mandolin at a good price more than ever these days,much the same as with guitars. If you look at the better quality Asian made ones,some of them are excellent ie. the Northfield range of instruments. There are also the Kentucky & the instruments & the Eastman range. The Kentucky's have a wide range of prices,the Eastmans maybe less so. The Northfield range starts off pretty high & gets higher according to the model,but they've come in for some very serious use by many well known players such as Adam Steffey & Emory Lester - in fact it think that Adam Steffey uses a range of Northfield mandolins on his latest CD - "New Primitive". From the Mandolin Cafe interview with Adam re.his new CD :- " The Northfield Big Mon model is my main ax these days. I used that on almost all of the cuts except for a couple of guitar and mandolin duets where I used a Northfield F-5S ...". For me,endorsements don't come any better than that. Emory Lester has also said that the Northfield mandolin that he plays,is the best sub-$10,000 mandolin he's played. I can't be quite sure,but i think thata Northfield 'Big Mon' comes in at around $3,500 US,considerably less than the price of any vintage 'Strat.' that i've seen,
Ivan;)

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-19-2013, 7:14am

"Acceptable" is easy; "Good" is can be reached with a little effort; "Excellent" is more rare than most folks realize; "Extraordinary" requires a blend of precision, finesse, subtlety, understanding of the materials, and attention to the Player's needs which make those instruments so special that they are well worth the value placed upon them in the balance of supply and demand.

Steve

Well spoken.....er written. i've only played maybe two mandolins in my life that I would call exceptional...but I have played many excellent and good ones, most by small luthiers with little notoriety. Im suprised that their is all this pushing all the time for manufactured mandolins when their really are so many exceptional luthiers out there who will build you a really nice mandolin at a very fair price...for not much more an what they charge for some of these top of the line pac-rimmers. For four hundred bucks more or so you could have a kick hiney mandolin way better than any of these asian ones...even the best asian ones...just my opinion

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-19-2013, 7:23am

Contact this gentlemen right here, an up and coming luthier who will build you an excellent F model for US 1800 www.ebmworks.com His name is Eddie Blevins from Tenn and he will be glad to answer any and all your questions. He's a really nice guy!

almeriastrings

Jun-20-2013, 2:33am

or four hundred bucks more or so you could have a kick hiney mandolin way better than any of these asian ones...even the best asian ones...just my opinion

How many KM-1000's, KM-1500's and Northfield's (in particular) have you actually played? I assume you must have some experience to base your opinion on?

Yes, there are some builders in the US who can turn out a very good instrument in the $1K-1.7K range. I've played quite a few over the years. Some I liked - some I didn't (for various reasons). I would not generalise, however, and say they were all "better" or "worse" than those I mentioned above. It really is not that simple. Some of them were real dogs, sound-wise (in my opinion). Build and finish quality was also all over the place. Others were very good value in all respects.

Taking Northfield specifically, their F-models range from around $2.6-$5.5K. Now... people are not buying instruments like that because they are "cheap". They are buying them because they are a very, very good mandolin indeed. I can say that on the basis of owning one (a Big Mon) and also having quite a number of other very good instruments available to compare it with. To dismiss all Asian built mandolins as if they are automatically second-rate junk is a very outdated view. There was some truth to it 30 odd years ago, though even then, the Sumi-built Kentucky's were pushing the envelope, but now... no way.

Go take a listen to Adam Steffey's latest CD. Sounds a long way from a second rate mandolin to me.

Ivan, a Big Mon to the same spec as Adam's is around the $5,500 mark, or a bit above. That's with the best selected materials used.

G7MOF

Jun-20-2013, 2:53am

Quality, costs!

houseworker

Jun-20-2013, 4:39am

...for not much more an what they charge for some of these top of the line pac-rimmers. For four hundred bucks more or so you could have a kick hiney mandolin way better than any of these asian ones...even the best asian ones...just my opinion

If this post of yours from four weeks ago (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?81357-Solid-vs-carved&p=1167482&viewfull=1#post1167482) is anything to go by, you're just about the least qualified person on the forum to pass judgement on Asian mandolins, let alone "the best asian ones" (sic).

almeriastrings

Jun-20-2013, 5:16am

That certainly puts it in context...:(

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-20-2013, 7:11am

If this post of yours from four weeks ago (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?81357-Solid-vs-carved&p=1167482&viewfull=1#post1167482) is anything to go by, you're just about the least qualified person on the forum to pass judgement on Asian mandolins, let alone "the best asian ones" (sic).
The truth is...thats just it. in the past the asian mandolins in the past that I had played were not very good at all. However, since then their have been a bunch of new asian makers like Eastmen, The Loars, Michael Kelley, and now JBovier and prob some more I havent checked out yet. Have I played any of these before? No, I'm hoping that I would be pleasantly surprised if I ever get the chance to test drive any of them. I havent played a mandolin in quite a few years, but my past experiences have told me to stear clear of asian mandolins, I just never played one that I didnt like. the jurys still out for me on a 2nd mandolin when I get to that point, should I have another cuatom one built for maybe 4,5 or 600 dollars more, or take the leap, maybe these later asian mandolins are better. Its just hard to take someone opinion on it...I guess I will just have to play some for myself when I visit the US and my mom for Thanksgiving this year. Is there anywhere in the Orlando Fl whee I can see, examine and play one of these? I meant no offense, but there is still a part of me thats saying its better to just pay a bit more and get a luthier built one. Thats the great part of the mandocafe, one came come here and do alot of research which is really beneficial for a guy like me who lives in Argentina. I'm sorry I'm so skeptical, but I just for some reason have a hard time thinking ( in my peronal opinion) that these mandolins are really as good as I am reading alot of folks are saying they are. I'll have to try them out for myself I guess.

houseworker

Jun-20-2013, 7:17am

I meant no offense, but there is still a part of me thats saying its better to just pay a bit more and get a luthier built one.

Do you have any idea who actually makes Eddie Blevins mandolins (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?96454-Looking-to-buy-nice-mandolin-Why-so-expensive&p=1175267&viewfull=1#post1175267)? His website is surprisingly coy - in the violin trade that would generally be taken as a sign that they're being shipped in from Asia for finishing (and labelling).

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-20-2013, 7:24am

How many KM-1000's, KM-1500's and Northfield's (in particular) have you actually played? I assume you must have some experience to base your opinion on?

Yes, there are some builders in the US who can turn out a very good instrument in the $1K-1.7K range. I've played quite a few over the years. Some I liked - some I didn't (for various reasons). I would not generalise, however, and say they were all "better" or "worse" than those I mentioned above. It really is not that simple. Some of them were real dogs, sound-wise (in my opinion). Build and finish quality was also all over the place. Others were very good value in all respects.

Taking Northfield specifically, their F-models range from around $2.6-$5.5K. Now... people are not buying instruments like that because they are "cheap". They are buying them because they are a very, very good mandolin indeed. I can say that on the basis of owning one (a Big Mon) and also having quite a number of other very good instruments available to compare it with. To dismiss all Asian built mandolins as if they are automatically second-rate junk is a very outdated view. There was some truth to it 30 odd years ago, though even then, the Sumi-built Kentucky's were pushing the envelope, but now... no way.

Go take a listen to Adam Steffey's latest CD. Sounds a long way from a second rate mandolin to me.

Ivan, a Big Mon to the same spec as Adam's is around the $5,500 mark, or a bit above. That's with the best selected materials used.
I,ll be honest I owned a Ky mandolin in the past and I unloaded it after 6 months it was heavy and just flat sounding, it had too much wood in it, I dont remember exactly which model it was but I hink it was the middle of the line F model I paid about 500 bucks for it. I had a friend from Kentucky ( a very good mandolin player I might add ) that hade a KY km1000 I know it had the solid carved top, and I thought it was ok, but even he doesnt use it anymore, he gave it to is son. The only other Ky I played was one time at Sam Ash music store...it had like a green burst finish to it....a KM 1000 to be honest, I didnt really like it much, pretty looking, but they had an F-5G hanging on the wall in there which i ended up playing every time I went in and drooled over ( however it eventually sold ) instead of the Ky it just didnt stand out to me at all. At festivals and with groups some live some not these mandolins to my ears just dont cut very well, they are too quiet and they dont sound full enough to me, this is of course my subjective opinion. believe itor not, some of the best mandolins I ever heard were built by very little known luthiers working out of small shops and Ive played gobs of em. many of them were ugly little ducklings but my goodness they cold really honk.

almeriastrings

Jun-20-2013, 7:42am

Oddly enough, you will find more than one genuine, vintage Loar owner on here who rates them very highly. I'd also point out that the lower end models are not even built by the same people who craft the KM-900 and up. No KM-1000's have ever had a "green burst" finish, by the way, so I have no idea what it was you actually saw. Until very recently, you apparently did not even know that they had solid, carved tops! You then went onto insist that the mandolin has little to do with it and it is all in the strings, picks and right hand tecnnique. You certainly do have a lot of opinions! Nothing wrong with that, it's a discussion forum...

You admit you have never even played a Northfield... yet despite that, you go on to assert:

"for not much more an what they charge for some of these top of the line pac-rimmers. For four hundred bucks more or so you could have a kick hiney mandolin way better than any of these asian ones...even the best asian ones...just my opinion "

I wish I had the confidence to be so sure about things I know absolutely nothing about. Then again, maybe I don't.

almeriastrings

Jun-20-2013, 8:30am

To return to the OP's original question, obviously, there are a lot of things than differentiate instruments, price-wise. Everything from materials to details of fine work that most people (unless they are familiar with such things) often don't even notice initially. For example, side binding. Adds quite a lot time.. and the more there is, the more there is to go wrong.. so getting this absolutely right is one measure of a fine instrument. Then, there's spraying vs spirit vs oil varnish.. staining... a lot of things that can be either relatively fast or very time consuming.

103595

When you are looking at the very best luthier's work, the precision and quality of details like this really jumps out at you:

103596

All that takes time to do.. time is money... and if a builder is working to almost zero tolerances in terms of errors/defects, then that adds to costs too.

If "rough and ready" is OK, then obviously, prices come down. The question you have to ask, though, is that if a builder is producing less-than-stellar finish and detail work, what else is less than ideal? If you can't bind a headstock cleanly, for example, how can anyone be sure your plate carving is any better? That can translate into structural integrity, as well as tonal properties. Personally, I have not seen any mandolins where the finish looked like it had been put on with a fence brush or where the detail work was obviously poor that I would be tempted to buy. One reason is that there are quite a number of builders out there who deliver very nicely built and well finished instruments at very fair prices.

JeffD

Jun-20-2013, 8:58am

I'm sorry I'm so skeptical,

No problem. This is all discussion. Its good to get a range of ideas and thoughts.

but I just for some reason have a hard time thinking ( in my personal opinion) that these mandolins are really as good as I am reading a lot of folks are saying they are.

I think most folks around here are pretty informed and more on the skeptical side, perhaps harder to impress than otherwise. So if someone appears to love an instrument, I am inclined to believe that particular instrument is pretty loveable. I don't have to agree with them, maybe, but I think its not foolish to lean that way.

I'll have to try them out for myself I guess.

Always the best way. Your own expectations, what your ears and hands and heart demand of an instrument, all individual. It will be good to see what you think.

While I like the idea of supporting small shops and independent luthiers, (love the idea actually), I think the days are long gone when you could accurately dismiss all Asian factory builds.

vegas

Jun-20-2013, 9:12am

Do you have any idea who actually makes Eddie Blevins mandolins (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?96454-Looking-to-buy-nice-mandolin-Why-so-expensive&p=1175267&viewfull=1#post1175267)? His website is surprisingly coy - in the violin trade that would generally be taken as a sign that they're being shipped in from Asia for finishing (and labelling).

That's interesting. After looking at his website that was the first thought that popped into my mind and I know diddly about actually building mandolins. It's a simple matter of economics. How could he offer what appear to be nicely made F5 style mandolins so cheaply? Has anybody actually asked him or know for certain if he finishes imports?

almeriastrings

Jun-20-2013, 10:55am

While I like the idea of supporting small shops and independent luthiers, (love the idea actually), I think the days are long gone when you could accurately dismiss all Asian factory builds.

Indeed. In addition there are "factories" and "small shops" in Asia too. Northfield, for example, have FIVE PEOPLE.

http://www.northfieldinstruments.com/about-us

I really think origin is not the key factor anymore. There are good builders, and good small shops, all over the place. There are some very good European builders too. Go by the instrument - not where it was put together.

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-20-2013, 11:16am

That's interesting. After looking at his website that was the first thought that popped into my mind and I know diddly about actually building mandolins. It's a simple matter of economics. How could he offer what appear to be nicely made F5 style mandolins so cheaply? Has anybody actually asked him or know for certain if he finishes imports?
Eddie just got into building mandolins, if you look at all the pages on his website and on his facebook page he has pictures of his building processes, the carving and graduating of the tops and backs, custom necks. He has been researching Roger Siminoffs method for a while and has finally launched out into the world of building.
I know some luthiers in the Orlando Florida area who built F-model mandolins for around US 1800 - 2000 that were pratty nice sounding and looking mandolins, so they are out there if you want to find them. I am going to step out on a limb and say that maybe Eddie is offering such a reasonable price right now because he is trying to get his name out there.
I'm really excited for him and wish him all the best on his luthery venture, he's a really nice guy and I am glad to be one of his first customers. He is building number 10 for me.
I'll say its true, I do believe right-hand technique, picks, strings are the biggestvfactormin tone, and I will say I have heard some excellent players play some terrible mandolins and sound good and vice versa, but I still want a hand made, solid carved and graduated instrument. My questions about asian models were in reference to a back up mandolin.
With regards to the greenish burst, gosh I dont know how to describe it but it had kinda a greenish, brownish, faded sunburst. It was a Ky model, but I cant remember. It was very pretty to look at, had a nice clean scroll, but it sounded very flat and didnt seem to resonate very well. I had a friend with me who was a luthier that built mandolins he told me "see that? Feel it, feel how heavy it is compared to the Gibson and compared to the ones I build? I dunno I could feel and hear the difference, it just didnt do anything for me, but it looked pretty. This was in the late 90s I guess so a while ago.
Like I said, yes I do have lots of opinions and they are just that, but I havent even so much as looked at a mandolin in about 7 years or so so give me some slack.
To say that the mans website is coy or to imply that he is doing something dishonest like that is unfair, just because he has a simple wordpress website, and maybe is starting out with advertising a new business online doesnt mean he is a scheister. He has discovered that he enjoys building mandolins and is trying to start a side business doing it. i alsk him why he charges what he does.

houseworker

Jun-20-2013, 12:21pm

To say that the mans website is coy or to imply that he is doing something dishonest like that is unfair, just because he has a simple wordpress website, and maybe is starting out with advertising a new business online doesnt mean he is a scheister. He has discovered that he enjoys building mandolins and is trying to start a side business doing it.

I certainly didn't imply that Mr Blevins is doing anything dishonest, nor did I call him a shyster. I do however think that some customers are naive.

Eddie Blevins' website neither claims that he is a luthier, nor that he makes the instruments he sells. The only picture of him on the website shows him holding an instrument "in the white". He may or may not make the instruments himself, I don't know.

I would have no issue if he is buying in instruments from Asia for completion. It's hardly a new phenomenon, and the standard of the best Chinese instruments is superb.

I dislike intensely the way you dismiss the entire spectrum of Chinese made mandolins, using "pac-rimmers" and "asian" as terms of abuse, and I find your attitude unpleasant and racist.

On their Facebook page, Eddie Blevins Mandolin Works describes you as a "missionary brother" and that might explain why you are prepared to so enthusiastically recommend the work of someone who hasn't yet completed your mandolin.

Eddie Blevins

Jun-20-2013, 12:29pm

houseworker

Jun-20-2013, 12:34pm

Thanks Eddie, that's very clear.

Mandosummers

Jun-20-2013, 1:09pm

...but I have played many excellent and good ones, most by small luthiers with little notoriety. Im suprised that their is all this pushing all the time for manufactured mandolins when their really are so many exceptional luthiers out there who will build you a really nice mandolin at a very fair price...for not much more an what they charge for some of these top of the line pac-rimmers. For four hundred bucks more or so you could have a kick hiney mandolin way better than any of these asian ones...even the best asian ones...just my opinion

Many years ago I contracted a "small luthier with little notoriety" to build a mandolin. They had a sample mando that was very nice so I paid half down and told them to get started. I was young and broke but every few weeks I would pay a few hundred more. The more I paid the less the project seemed to be a priority. Finally I had completely paid for the mandolin and progress all but stopped. Well over a year and a half later I finally got my mandolin. It was a bitter disappointment. The carving of the back was botched and out of proportion. The neck set at about a 20 degree angle side to side from the top so the bridge had to be set at an angle. It sounded thin and tinny and looked homemade, nothing like the example I was shown at the start. At that point my money was gone and there was no getting it back without a lawsuit. So my humble "fool's" advise is not to listen to someone advising you to have an unknown luthier "build you a really nice mandolin". Go and try one of their mandolins that is already finished. If it speaks to you, buy it.

Wow, and to say that just because a mandolin is made by an unknown up and coming luthier... "you could have a kick hiney mandolin way better than any of these asian ones...even the best asian ones..." is simply ludicrous. But hey, maybe we all need to listen to this guy... he seems to be more of an authority than the likes of Steffey, Ramsey, Lester...

mandolirius

Jun-20-2013, 1:20pm

shortymack

Jun-20-2013, 1:35pm

The part I find funny is not believing peoples opinions here when they say somethings good. If there ever was a place that you should trust folks about mandolins, its here.

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-20-2013, 1:38pm

Many years ago I contracted a "small luthier with little notoriety" to build a mandolin. They had a sample mando that was very nice so I paid half down and told them to get started. I was young and broke but every few weeks I would pay a few hundred more. The more I paid the less the project seemed to be a priority. Finally I had completely paid for the mandolin and progress all but stopped. Well over a year and a half later I finally got my mandolin. It was a bitter disappointment. The carving of the back was botched and out of proportion. The neck set at about a 20 degree angle side to side from the top so the bridge had to be set at an angle. It sounded thin and tinny and looked homemade, nothing like the example I was shown at the start. At that point my money was gone and there was no getting it back without a lawsuit. So my humble "fool's" advise is not to listen to someone advising you to have an unknown luthier "build you a really nice mandolin". Go and try one of their mandolins that is already finished. If it speaks to you, buy it.

Wow, and to say that just because a mandolin is made by an unknown up and coming luthier... "you could have a kick hiney mandolin way better than any of these asian ones...even the best asian ones..." is simply ludicrous. But hey, maybe we all need to listen to this guy... he seems to be more of an authority than the likes of Steffey, Ramsey, Lester...

For the record, I apologize for offending anyone, my observations were based upon my own personal experiences. My statement about what I said about unknown luthiers, however, is true. It's true, I haven't been able to personally play any of Eddies mandolins beforehand, nor would I be able to, or just about any for that matter. I am currently living in a fairly small city in Argentina, so it's difficult. However, from past experiences I can tell you that I have played many many different mandolins, in diff places at diff festivals that were built by luthiers in small shops many built in limited numbers. Aesthetically, many looked better than others, but I can tell you most of the ones that I played in my opinion were above average sounding instruments to say the least. Many times when we would play diff gigs at festivals I would afterwards meet alot of builders and get a chance to hob-nob and play diff instruments by diff builders...usually from the local area we were in, or just chance meets with other musicians at the festivals.

one gentleman that i met was from georgia, he had only built a few mandolins out of his garage and they were rather rough looking, the neck angle seemed a little high and steep, but they actually werent uncomfortable to play at all and sounded really very good. the finish and cosmetics were very rough, the scrolls were very rough, but I actually liked the sound of the mandolin better than my Summit F-100 that I had at the time.

I just wanted to bring to the op's attention that their are many small builders out there building fine mandolins at really very reasonable prices if you really willing to look and do some research.....more than one might realize...and I know because of past experiences. Maybe you won't get the prettiest mandolin and maybe you will, but no harm done in considering the small guys just starting out.....every builder has to start somewhere right?

I am sorry about your bad experience with a small unknown builder. To be honest, to date my only bad experiences with mandolins frankly were all imports, I just havent played one "yet" to be honest that I didnt like. However I am intrigued that I am reading that some manufacturers are actually beginning to really build some noteworthy instruments...so as I said in my earlier posts, when I am home for Thanksgiving, I want to play some of these for myself and draw my own conclusion.

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-20-2013, 1:55pm

<Like I said, yes I do have lots of opinions and they are just that, but I havent even so much as looked at a mandolin in about 7 years or so so give me some slack.>

You post uniformed, biased opinions on, then arrogantly demand you be "cut slack" for doing so? I think not.

Opinions? "Yes" uninformed? "No" my observations are based upon my past experiences and nothing more. I shared what I have actually experienced. Actually my statement about "cutting me some slack" was just me trying to lighten things up a bit ok?

Scott Tichenor

Jun-20-2013, 2:28pm

Time to dial back the personal attacks. A couple of you here have a history of abusing Forum Guidelines. If you're unable to discern if you're one of those people that's still no excuse for the behavior displayed in this thread. We will not hesitate to enforce the forum guidelines. You've been warned.

Eric, you assisted in creating this. Making blanket general statements is going to get called into question. We will enforce forum guidelines. We will not protect you against your own statements. Those are yours.

almeriastrings

Jun-20-2013, 2:31pm

. It was a Ky model, but I cant remember. It was very pretty to look at, had a nice clean scroll, but it sounded very flat and didnt seem to resonate very well. I had a friend with me who was a luthier that built mandolins he told me "see that? Feel it, feel how heavy it is compared to the Gibson and compared to the ones I build? I dunno I could feel and hear the difference

Well, unless you are talking about a KM-1000/1500 this is fairly irrelevant. If you are implying this "fact" is true of those models - and several times you have said "they have too much wood on them" - then I simply do not agree with you, certainly in terms of relative weights. I have two KM-1000's and two Gibson F-5's here with me right now, and picking them up one after the other I'd have to say any differences are very minor indeed. I do not have my accurate balance scales here, but I'll be happy to weight them accurately over the weekend and report back. Both KM-1000's feel very lightly built to me. If they were heavily built, I think I'd know it. They're not.

If, as you say, you "haven't so much as looked at a mandolin in 7 years or so", I would respectfully suggest you should get up to speed on the subject before being quite so ready to denigrate entire countries (and continents) craftspeople on the basis of very, very limited experience indeed. There are some seriously nice instruments being made today all over the world. Sure, there is some junk too - but you can also find junk from all over.

FLATROCK HILL

Jun-20-2013, 2:48pm

When you are looking at the very best luthier's work, the precision and quality of details like this really jumps out at you:

Hi almeriastrings,

Were you contrasting those two images you posted, or were you suggesting that both of them exhibit nice workmanship? The top one looks to be an example of a Northfield and it looks nice to me. The binding is different on the lower example, maybe more time consuming to make those fancy cuts around the point area, but both look beautiful to me.

Just wondering if you'd clarify that for me. Sorry if I'm thick-headed. :confused:

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-20-2013, 2:58pm

Well, unless you are talking about a KM-1000/1500 this is fairly irrelevant. If you are implying this "fact" is true of those models - and several times you have said "they have too much wood on them" - then I simply do not agree with you, certainly in terms of relative weights. I have two KM-1000's and two Gibson F-5's here with me right now, and picking them up one after the other I'd have to say any differences are very minor indeed. I do not have my accurate balance scales here, but I'll be happy to weight them accurately over the weekend and report back. Both KM-1000's feel very lightly built to me. If they were heavily built, I think I'd know it. They're not.

If, as you say, you "haven't so much as looked at a mandolin in 7 years or so", I would respectfully suggest you should get up to speed on the subject before being quite so ready to denigrate entire countries (and continents) craftspeople on the basis of very, very limited experience indeed. There are some seriously nice instruments being made today all over the world. Sure, there is some junk too - but you can also find junk from all over.

No problem I think thats a fair assumption, I do want to play a few of these when I visit the states. I also apologize for coming across as being a bit snide with my former remarks. i would like to play most notably the jboviers (as you recommended) The Loars and also the Northfields...wanna here for myself.:)

mandolirius

Jun-20-2013, 3:01pm

Opinions? "Yes" uninformed? "No" my observations are based upon my past experiences and nothing more. I shared what I have actually experienced. Actually my statement about "cutting me some slack" was just me trying to lighten things up a bit ok?

Ok, I get your point.

almeriastrings

Jun-20-2013, 3:05pm

Hi,

Yes, you are right. The top one is a Northfield 'Big Mon'. The lower one is an Ellis F-5 Special.

The Northfield has very good work. If you want to be hyper-critical, it is not quite as crisp and clean as the Ellis in detailing and finish, but not that many mandolins are. Tom Ellis's instruments are super-clean and precise in that regard, almost inhumanly clean...

The Northfield is a superb mandolin all-round. Certainly holds its own very well against many that cost a whole lot more.

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-20-2013, 3:11pm

vegas

Jun-21-2013, 12:34am

Hello Gentlemen. Since I have become the general focus of this thread, through no fault of my own, I will chime in. I build mandolins. I build them from scratch. I start with wood that comes from instrument wood suppliers (not kits). I carve by hand all of my tops, backs and necks. I assemble my instruments. I inlay and bind my instruments. I tap tune the tops, backs and tone bars. I finish my instruments and then set them up. I do not build my own cases. I do not build my own tuners, bridges or tailpieces. If any of you would like to see my shop, please let me know. I'd be happy to show you how it's done.

Thank you for taking the time to explain your process. Yes, several of us were wondering for all the various reasons expressed and I believe this post answers all the questions I can think of raised here so thanks again for taking the time to share the information. Your mandolins certainly LOOK beautiful. I will make an effort to locate and to play one very soon, very soon indeed!

Do you know of dealers in Las Vegas, So. CA or Arizona where I sometimes travel who might have one or more in stock?

Eric Michael Pfeiffer

Jun-21-2013, 6:52am

Yeah Almeria I saw the Northfields, they sure do look nice, and they seem pretty well made just from looking at them. I might like to try and play one some day if I ever get the chance to do so.

I also saw that Adam was playing these, he must have like 100 different mandolins by now, doesnt he also play Gibsons and Daleys?

Having a mandolin built for me, however is sort of like a dream come true, especially since the robbery and the theft of all my banjos, so I figured since I'm going to start playing one again, I want my first one built from scratch. I discovered Eddie and he's answered all my many questions, a really nice guy and an up and coming mandolin luthier in my opinion as he hasnt built very many so far, he's just launched out into his mandolin building. I do think though that with time, he is going to become more and more well known, so I'm glad I was able to pick up a custom mandolin now while they are still a bargain, although even if he raises his prices one day they'll still be a bargain in my opinion for an F mandolin just slightly below US 2000.