Fingering question

[John Craton]

While browsing through some mandolin music this evening, I saw a fingering that to my "just-a-violinist" mind seemed quite odd. Beneath an a#' in an a#-f# double-stop is the finger number 5. Now, granted, we do indeed have five digits per hand, but I haven't seen a 5 indicated in anything but keyboard music before. It seems far too much a stretch for this to indicate the use of the thumb, and the chord could easily be played with a 2-1 fingering. I'm inclined to assume it was simply a misprint, but I'm wondering if it means something I've not yet learned. It definitely wasn't a quintuplet, but I'm at a loss for any other explanation beyond a printing error. It was in a piece by Calace, though I can't recall at the moment which one. Any hints?

[Jim Garber]

John:
I have seen the 5 indicating a stretch as in the high C note on the e string but maintaining 1st position. But that chord doesn't quite make sense, at least at this late hour.

Jim

[John Bertotti]

RSW was telling me about a piece that actually used the thumb to play a note on the G string. I believe it was a Calace piece. I bet he elaborate on this. It was quite important, because the way I was holding my mandolin would never have allowed for this particular form of acrobatics. Hey Richard, see I was paying attention. At least I hope I remembered that right. John http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[John Craton]

Yes, I'm familiar with the use of the thumb on the G string on rare occasions (though I'm not sure how it's indicated) -- same happens on violin occasionally. But this was an a# on the A course. It just didn't make sense. Probably a misprint.

[John Bertotti]

oops Sorry. Just to late for deep thinking I guess. John

[RSW]

The use of thumb for fingereing the odd notes (A-Bb-B-C) on the G string dates back easily to the 18th century and was particularily a favorite technical device with the french-italian mandolinists. Calace and Munier both used it extensively. I have a violin tutor from Naples (mid-18th century) that really goes wild on the use of the thumb, even offering some trill studies executed by the thumb. As for the '5th' finger notation, some of us have used this to inidicate an extension. In other words, the fourth finger extends but the hand remains (in theory) in the lower position.

[etbarbaric]

This is *way off topic* but my neice was born with extra digits on both of her little hands (apparently this trait runs in her father's family). Her hands were quite amazing to look at. I was immediately wanting to shop for little lutes, but alas, her family decided to have the extra digits removed. I guess they weren't attached by actual joints anyway... just skin.

Eric

[MandoJon]

I have a friend whose daughter was similarily endowed and, in her case, the extra fingers were clearly just hanging from skin with no actual bone connection and so had to be removed for fear of them catching on something and tearing. My friend bears the scars where his extra fingers were also removed.

Anyway... could 5th finger be a rock-guitar-hero style hammer-on using the first finger of the plectrum hand (4 + 1 = 5) to get those super-fast hammer-on-pull-off sequences? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

OK I'll find my own way out.