Internal vs External mandolin pickups - pros and cons

[jsphrdvs]

Hi All,

I've posted a question in the past about amplifying my mandolin for live gigs. There were many great recommendations. I went with the Shure SM-57 mic. I think the sound is great, but I've found that it's just not loud enough in the bar. Not to mention I compete with a banjo player that doesn't know the meaning of "playing softer". I would like to try a pickup, but I'm not sure if I should go with an externally or internally mounted pickup and wanted to get your opinions. (Or will a clip on mic give me any more volumne or just the same problem?) Going over the forums, it seems like the same 3 are always recommended: Schertler, K&K Twin and L.R. Baggs. Feel free to talk me into or out of any one of these, but mostly I want to know if I should go internal or external. I know I'll need a preamp as well and the Radial PZ-Pre comes highly recommended, but I would also like to keep the price for both the pickup and preamp around +/- $300 if possible (I'm not a pro).

Thanks!
JD

[Ethan Setiawan]

I have a K&K twin and a L.R Baggs Venue D.I. I like it well enough. Jacob Jolliff from Joy Kills Sorrow uses the same stuff at shows and makes it sound pretty good.

[Sheryl McDonald]

I use a Schertler DYN-M with a Fishman preamp (DI). Its an external "stick on" mic with great sound, and little feedback, unless it's pointed directly at monitors. The sound is a very natural reproduction of the mandolin. I've left the Schertler permanently attached, and modified the jack to be a carpenter jack. (and BTW, I did buy it used here on the cafe from another member). It really does solve that problem of being loud enough.

[Andy Miller]

A clip-on mic will suffer from low volume-before-feedback - more so than most pickups.

I really appreciate internal pickups for not having any exposed wires or carpenter jacks - just an endpin jack, nice and neat, nothing in harm's way. Unless the "pickup" in consideration is a Schertler, I'd answer internal every time.

I prefer soundboard transducers to bridge pickups, I think it's usually easier to get them EQ'd to a more acceptable sound. But they can sound very different in different installation locations, and are not a breeze to move around once installed inside!

Consider a McIntyre Feather if you're going internal - they can be really natural-sounding when mounted in a good spot. They really want a preamp, because output is very low. They are not the easiest pickup to install/uninstall/relocate.

K&K's sound very good and have high enough output that you can use them without a preamp if you need to.

Schertler's contact mic has a well-deserved reputation for sounding natural. The mic does have to touch the top of your mandolin and can mark a finish. It's an expensive system, especially if you get their preamp which is likely to be the best-sounding way to go.

[mandroid]

Having one Schertler Dyn M, I no longer considered adding any more pickups..

installed ones, have to be put in each instrument, the Dyn M is fine with whatever soundboard

Its attached to.. then taken off and stowed in its box.

I just run it direct into the mic channel of ma Roland AC 60, no added pre .

Mic pre in the amp.

[herbsandspices]

I have an internal Schertler Dyn (I think at the time they were called the C-Dyn-S), which terminated with a 1/4" input. It's a solid little unit. Schertler now calls it the "Resocoil", and for a while was making a 1/4" jack version, but now looks like they're only making the bulky XLR version.

Schertler's answer (actually, Eastman, as they're now the USA Schertler people) to the reasoning:
"It is a dynamic microphone, and is low impedance, therefore the XLR connector. You can use ¼” if it is a very short run, like 5 feet or less. Beyond that, the sound degrades."

Strange, as I never found the sound to degrade with my C-Dyn-S internal, which I usually use with a high-quality 20' instrument cable. Oh well!

[Dan Hulse]

Currently my mando and tenor banjos have either K&K or JJB transducers and my I'm not sure what is in my zouk although I was told it is a Fishman. ALL are internal and run through a K&K Pure XLR preamp which I mount on my mic stand. My bandmate has an external which comes loose every single gig. The Pure XLR has both 1/4" & XLR outputs and will run on phantom power and it's designed to match impedance with the K&K transducers.

[mandroid]

Looks like the Schertler TRS 1/4" is just not the default jack .
.. if that is what you need for the install, say so..

XLR on a plate is fine for big ol' guitars..

[jsphrdvs]

Currently my mando and tenor banjos have either K&K or JJB transducers and my I'm not sure what is in my zouk although I was told it is a Fishman. ALL are internal and run through a K&K Pure XLR preamp which I mount on my mic stand. My bandmate has an external which comes loose every single gig. The Pure XLR has both 1/4" & XLR outputs and will run on phantom power and it's designed to match impedance with the K&K transducers.

1) "My bandmate has an external which comes loose every single gig" - This is one thing I'm worried about. I think if I was to go with an externally mounted pickup, I would consider the Schrtler Dyn-M, but is will any externally mounted pickup potentially come loose during a gig? Or are some more reliable than others? Or does it depend on the person's technique when mounting it, or perhaps their playing style?

2) "K&K or JJB transducers" - Is transducer just another name for the style of pickup we're talking about versus a bridge pickup? I think a Fishman bridge pickup is what I had built into my previous Michael Kelly mandolin and I did not not like the sound of it.

JD

[jsphrdvs]

Ummm... Just realized the Schrtler Dyn-M is a $600 pickup. Sorry, that's off the table for me (for now).

JD

[mandroid]

Thats the problem with Swiss Manufacturing , as the $/euro, sinks, the CHF rises .

as the Rich people move their abundant money to the Banks in like Zurich..

[Bob Clark]

Ummm... Just realized the Schrtler Dyn-M is a $600 pickup. Sorry, that's off the table for me (for now).

JD

Too bad...I was getting mighty interested in one, too. :(

[Timmando]

Currently my mando and tenor banjos have either K&K or JJB transducers and my I'm not sure what is in my zouk although I was told it is a Fishman. ALL are internal and run through a K&K Pure XLR preamp which I mount on my mic stand. My bandmate has an external which comes loose every single gig. The Pure XLR has both 1/4" & XLR outputs and will run on phantom power and it's designed to match impedance with the K&K transducers.

I've got the same equipment and I am wondering how you mount your XLR preamp to your mic stand..velcro?

[calgary.fiddler]

I compete with a banjo player that doesn't know the meaning of "playing softer".

Do any of them? I also use a K&K twin with LR Baggs Venue D.I and it sounds great. Ive played in venues where the other bands playing were rock bands and I could compete with them volume wise. The "notch" feedback eliminator on the LR Baggs venue DI is a huge plus. I also find the boost switch is essential for soloing.

The combo might be a bit over your budget, but its well worth the money in my opinion.

[jsphrdvs]

Do any of them? I also use a K&K twin with LR Baggs Venue D.I and it sounds great. Ive played in venues where the other bands playing were rock bands and I could compete with them volume wise. The "notch" feedback eliminator on the LR Baggs venue DI is a huge plus. I also find the boost switch is essential for soloing.

The combo might be a bit over your budget, but its well worth the money in my opinion.

You're the second one to mention the K&K twin with LR Baggs Venue D.I combination and I might be starting to lean that way. The LR Baggs Venue D.I cost more than I wanted on a preamp, but it gets some really good reviews. And I like the idea of NOT having to mount a pickup for each show. While the LR Baggs external pickup sounds good, there were some reviews of it not staying on. And since my mandolin is not high dollar, I don't really mind the idea of a qualified luthier drilling into it for the installation.

Thanks for your opinions. Feel free to keep 'em comin'.

JD

[mandroid]

Anyhow external, removable, you only need one .. and it's a keeper..

internal, installed, when you sell the mandolin you have to start over & get another pickup installed.
1) per instrument..