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Tobin
Apr-11-2013, 10:05am
I'm looking for some advice here. My best friend greatly admires my mandolin playing and wants to take up an instrument, but he doesn't have any musical background aside from childhood guitar lessons over 40 years ago. So for my purposes here, he's a "blank slate".

My goal is to get him playing an instrument that will pair well with the mandolin so we can work on projects together and spend quality time picking and grinning. I like to play a wide range of music, from bluegrass to old-time, gospel, Irish traditional, classical, Brazilian, and pretty much anything I can make the mandolin play. I realize that not every instrument will pair with a mandolin for all types of music, but I'd like to find something for him that we can play a wide range of music on together.

For purely selfish reasons, I don't necessarily want to steer him towards the mandolin, because I'd rather he pick something that gives us a nice breadth of sound for duets. In other words, something with more bass to it or a different voice. But the challenge will be finding something that he can play.

I loaned him one of my guitars and am attempting to start him out with basic chords, but I sense that he's having difficulties with the size (width) of the neck and distance between frets. Like me, he has very small hands. In fact, his fingers are pretty much the same length as mine, but his pinky is set much further down on his palm than mine is and only extends about half the length of his ring finger. While I've been able to overcome (or work around) my hand size limitations on the guitar, I sense that he will have even more difficulty and frustration. So I'm thinking he needs something with a thinner neck and less strings, and possibly a shorter scale length. His fingers are short, but they're really thick too.

On top of that, he's a lefty. My first suggestion would be for him to just learn to play right-handed, so as not to handicap himself by having everything backwards. I've never dealt with southpaw issues, though. Is this realistic?

He is very fond of the sound of the banjo, and it seems that he's leaning that way. I've recently met a local fellow who teaches beginner banjo, and am going to try to introduce them this evening. But before we go too far down that road, I'd like to hear suggestions on what else he should consider. I'm thinking the banjo may help the neck width issue, but not necessarily the fret distance issue. As I don't know much about banjo playing, I don't know if the pinky is going to be that important.

Knowing all of this, what instrument would you recommend for him?

jasona
Apr-11-2013, 10:15am
He should play whatever calls his heart. Doesn't matter how good it will sound for your purposes if he isn't inspired and doesn't stick with it.

dcoventry
Apr-11-2013, 10:19am
Stand up bass. Great with mando and a whole lot of fun.

Banjo? He's already a lefty and he wants another reason for people to tease him?

Samuel David Britton
Apr-11-2013, 10:25am
When choosing a instrument, it must be one he enjoys to hear.

Jim Garber
Apr-11-2013, 10:27am
Multiple concerns for you and your friend. It sounds like if he is left to his own devices, he will opt for the banjo. Then again he wants to pay with you and you want something to go with your desires. I think (also) that he will go with where his passion leads him and you will enjoy playing at whatever level he will end up. The big problem is his catching up to your level. I have a feeling that you guys are good buddies so will enjoy the time spent together but that you will also have to find other players who want to play the various genres you enjoy and at your level -- certainly while you are waiting for him to catch up to you.

journeybear
Apr-11-2013, 10:43am
It would be nice if there were a setting where you guys could have a few different instruments around that he could try out and see what he likes and you could think about which would best suit the both of you. Like a jam, where people might be OK with him plunking away on their instruments for a bit - off to one side or in a corner. ;) Thing is, whatever he decides to take up will require a commitment of time, energy, and thought, not to be entered into lightly. He should choose something he will enjoy playing for its own sake and for his own interests, regardless of how it fits with you. He will have to put a lot of playing in to get to a level where your abilities will align. So he had better enjoy playing it, and getting to that level. If he had had, say, accordion lessons as a kid, he might want to revisit that. So since he had some experience with guitar long ago, that would seem natural. Otherwise ... if he likes the sound of the banjo, OK, but I don't know if there are lefty banjos (someone may correct me on this), so he may want to try 4-string or tenor varieties. I guess there must be lefty banjo players - just the way probability works - and I imagine a good teacher would know how to deal with this. Hope you guys figure it out. :)

Tobin
Apr-11-2013, 11:15am
He should play whatever calls his heart. Doesn't matter how good it will sound for your purposes if he isn't inspired and doesn't stick with it.
I agree, but it seems at this point (from what he's said) that he's pretty much open to anything. He does like the banjo, but he doesn't really know enough about music in general (or instruments in particular) to have anything "calling his heart". I think he really just wants something that he can play along with me, so that we can enjoy a mutual hobby.


I think (also) that he will go with where his passion leads him and you will enjoy playing at whatever level he will end up. The big problem is his catching up to your level. I have a feeling that you guys are good buddies so will enjoy the time spent together but that you will also have to find other players who want to play the various genres you enjoy and at your level -- certainly while you are waiting for him to catch up to you.
Yeah, I pretty much know going in that it's going to be a struggle to teach him from the ground-up on musical theory, not to mention any instrument-specific help I can give him. The good thing is that he's open to taking lessons and spending a lot of personal time on his own to dig into it. I think we both see it as an adventure. He can learn a lot on his own, or with a tutor, but then we can build his experience up by playing together. Ideally, I'd like him to choose an instrument that offers a lot of potential as a rhythm/supporting instrument where he can strum on basic chords and feel good about it before getting into lead/solo/break playing. And I'm more than willing to play whatever style of music seems best for him at any particular time to put him in the right mode of playing for his level.

And while I'm obviously way ahead of him, I'm not exactly an "old pro" on the mandolin. I'm solidly in the intermediate category. Helping him on a new instrument and having someone to play with casually will help build my skills too.


It would be nice if there were a setting where you guys could have a few different instruments around that he could try out and see what he likes and you could think about which would best suit the both of you. Like a jam, where people might be OK with him plunking away on their instruments for a bit - off to one side or in a corner.
I've started going to a Thursday evening jam with fellow member Doug Edwards, which is where I met the aforementioned banjo teacher/player. So far, I've just played rhythm chop chords, declining to accept any breaks until I can get a better handle on their style. They play a lot of stuff I don't know yet, but I'm learning. My buddy will be going this evening, just to watch. We usually have several guitar players, a fiddler, a bass player, a mandolin or two, and of course the banjo. So hopefully there's a good range of 'basic' instruments there that he can observe and maybe talk to others about them.

What I'm really wondering, though, is if there's something else out there that would be a better fit for him that's not typically seen at a jam session like this. Should we be thinking about something like an octave mandolin or mandobass? The ongoing bouzouki thread has me interested as well (although it seems to be fairly limited to Irish music by others).

catmandu2
Apr-11-2013, 11:29am
Tobin, generally speaking-

The "best" duet instrument is guitar (it's why you see guitars everywhere, and inserted into trad music--from Africa to the UK. It's the most versatile stringed instrument--(my flamenco mentor refers to it as a "portable piano"--for its polyphonic and solo, self-accompanying capacity). After one gains much experience with guitar--and musical wherewithal--acquiring other stringed instrument proficiency is rather easy

If you want to work (play with lots of people)--take up doublebass

Instruments like mandocello, OM, et al, are going to have more limited utility, but as they are more unusual, they create more interest--among both audience AND player. A banjo, too, has more limited utility. If one happens across a mandobass--fine and dandy, but I wouldn't recommend that one "specialize" in something like mandobass as a first instrument : ) (one can pick up a perfectly good-sounding and playing used Squier P-bass for 50 clams)

Everythiong depends on: what music you want to play, and what sound you want to make.. If you want to create a unque, personal sound in a style or genre, possess a vision, etc--then perhaps assembling the instruments FIRST may be a viable route (it's what composers do--arrange the music and instrumentation for the sounds in their heads).

But generally, the guitar is a most suitable instrument for musical tuition, and executing musical ideas

jaycat
Apr-11-2013, 11:32am
. . . Ideally, I'd like him to choose an instrument that offers a lot of potential as a rhythm/supporting instrument where he can strum on basic chords and feel good about it before getting into lead/solo/break playing. . . .

That sure sounds a lot like a guitar. There's a reason why it's such a popular instrument, especially if you guys want to vocalize.

I don't quite buy the "small hands" argument -- people of all sizes all over the world, as well as children, play guitar. Unless he has a downright aversion to the instrument. But it's by far the most versatile of the suggestions above

Just my tuppence worth . . .

jaycat
Apr-11-2013, 11:32am
Catmandu, you aced me out by a whisker.

vetus scotia
Apr-11-2013, 11:44am
I am going to prescind from addressing your interests in this question and just add that after I learned to play a little clawhammer banjo, I started to think that more people ought to start with it and then move to guitar. The milaeage you get from G,C,D7 (which all totaled require fretting 4 fingers) is astonishing, and the ease of picking out melodies is amazing too. I am starting to learn Scruggs style now, and I would not advise someone to start that from a blank slate. Wouldn't advise against it, there is just no compelling reason for it. (Unless you are a masochist. And if you live with other people, a sadist, too).

catmandu2
Apr-11-2013, 11:50am
All things being equal--I'd recommend piano accordian or CBA (with free bass) ; )

Over on the melodeon forum there's a current thread discussing "duet partner" instruments. Of course, there are the venerable traditions (fiddle/accordian; fiddle/banjo; etc.) and the musical reasons for these--musical evocativeness--are fun and interesting to consider

Many other reasons occur, of course--mainly, socio-politcal. But for the purposes here, it's fun to look at geography, etc.--I found it interesting that in the widely disseminated Dutch Hop tradition in the US, the tenor banjo is everwhere (I once found the TB my most versatile instrument, so it should have been no surprise)

allenhopkins
Apr-11-2013, 12:01pm
Sounds like what you're looking for is a short-scale instrument, not a mandolin, that's good at producing back-up chordal accompaniment.

Ukulele is a possibility, though it's in a very similar tonal range as mandolin, so the sonic contrast won't be there to the extent it is with guitar. Baritone ukulele, which is basically a small, four-string guitar, tuned DGBE like a strings 1-4 of a standard guitar, might be a possibility. Added benefit is that there are lots of decent ones around, used, for not much money; I bought an all-solid-wood Harmony "bari" for about $125, and it's an OK instrument.

If guitar's more like the sound you want (having those two extra low strings), there are a raft of small-body guitars now available, from the Baby Taylor to the Little Martin, and many Asian equivalents. They have shorter scales, and are decently-made instruments -- at least the Taylor and Martin ones are. I bought a Little Martin, made entirely of, well, Formica, as a travel instrument, and have been very pleasantly surprised with both the price (around $275) and the sound.

I'd be less likely to recommend banjo. It's fine for bluegrass, old-time and American folk, and to some extent Irish trad., but Brazilian, classical et. al. -- not so much (unless you're Bela Fleck, and even then…). Five-string banjo, with its close tunings (4ths and 3rds) is easy on smaller hands, but tenor banjo is harder -- scale like a stretched-out mandolin.

Autoharp? Easy for hands of any size, very chordal, and can be adapted to a variety of styles -- if you're good at picking leads and learning a variety of strums. Doesn't get the respect I think it deserves. Appalachian dulcimer? Easy to play, limited as to keys (wanta play everything in D?), not too adaptable to non-folk styles.

I'd start with some smaller guitar-like instruments -- baritone uke, small-body guitar -- as accompaniments, and let your friend pursue his banjo interests as well, so that he may be able in the future to "double" and expand your duo's sound. First instrument's the hardest, and once he understands chords and "standard progressions" and is able to do some basic stuff, there's plenty of opportunity for development and expansion. Good luck.

lenf12
Apr-11-2013, 12:12pm
Mandolin duets are nice!! Why not get your friend started on mando and you can switch to guitar since you already play (or own one). It seems to me that your friend is jumping through all the hoops and you don't have to jump through any. Perhaps a little reciprocity on your part will help the situation because you will both be learning an essentially unfamiliar instrument. That would level the playing field.

For the record, my Sunday afternoon BG jam is frequented by 2 (yes 2) left handed banjo players so we know lefties are available. Perhaps you only would need a leftie neck as the rest of the banjo is pretty symmetrical. Leftie guitars and mandolins are widely available as well, far more available than mandobass.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

stevedenver
Apr-11-2013, 12:20pm
hard to beat guitar imho,
nice ones are cheaper than ever
tons of superb learning resources
easy to find teachers and not be thought of in any genre -very mainstream

easy to accompany in relatively short time,
easy to blend with mando, especially celtic and fiddle tunes

catmandu2
Apr-11-2013, 12:25pm
I'm looking for some advice here. My best friend greatly admires my mandolin playing and wants to take up an instrument, but he doesn't have any musical background aside from childhood guitar lessons over 40 years ago. So for my purposes here, he's a "blank slate".


A coupla more thoughts--more specifically, and a little more analytically:

Sounds like it could be a case of the: "guitar ho-hums" ... if partner has experience with guitar, yet is uninspired to pursue or generally lacking wherewithal to deploy it, a non-guitar instrument may be what the doctor ordered to get the creative juices flowing (wouldn't be the first time--a lot of folks here have found creative refuge, from guitar, in the mandolin)

I might recommend anticipating what your partner might be likely to encounter (during exposure to the banjo, for instance): there seems nothing as familiar as the rhythmic patterns of boom-chick, and the genre-specific rhythmic patterns that occur in our popular musical forms, such as 4/4 balladry, 3/4 waltz, etc. Typically, one has heard these deployed on the guitar, at least, as it generally constitutes the vast majority of folk and popular music (you might say our folk music in the US is guitar-based, in that it is largely vocal/song-based). So your partner has likely internalized the rudiments of what it takes to play music, foremost, from a guitar perspective--namely, the rhythmic foundation; so, learning and deploying the patterns of rhythm are apt to be much easier and quicker...if expediency is a priority

Bum-ditty--the rhythmic foundation of frailing banjo: also easy and rhythmically familiar (although not nearly as universal in US music as guitar). So, adapting one's rhythmic sense to the offset syncopations involved with re-entrant 5-string banjo tuning is a little more specialized--perhaps less readily acauired (and thus, slower to be deployed), etc.

Scruggs style (3-finger, "bluegrass style" picking) banjo: as mentioned above, much more complex, syncopated, etc

And so forth..

Just looking at it from what it might feel like--for your partner--and what might tend to factor into what will get him playing

Tobin
Apr-11-2013, 12:34pm
Wow, lots to think about here. Great responses so far.


Mandolin duets are nice!! Why not get your friend started on mando and you can switch to guitar since you already play (or own one). It seems to me that your friend is jumping through all the hoops and you don't have to jump through any. Perhaps a little reciprocity on your part will help the situation because you will both be learning an essentially unfamiliar instrument. That would level the playing field.

Well, that's not a bad idea. Being as I'm familiar with both guitar and mandolin, I could teach him both over time and we could swap instruments back and forth when playing. Good idea.

I forgot to mention that there's one thing I'm really going to have to work on with him. He's from England, and apparently the guitar teacher he had as a child told him in no uncertain terms that a pick is NOT to be used until you've mastered it with finger-plucking first. So he's going to have to learn to use a pick, and that's all there is to it. I've told him there's no way a guitar can be played in a circle of bluegrass players without a pick and have any hope of being heard. The finger-plucking thing may be one reason he's leaning toward the banjo.

mandroid
Apr-11-2013, 12:53pm
The Accordion.. button or keyboard.. ~o)

Tobin
Apr-11-2013, 1:28pm
Sounds like what you're looking for is a short-scale instrument, not a mandolin, that's good at producing back-up chordal accompaniment.
Yes, that's pretty much my thought. But something to add a little more depth (bass) to the overall sound.


Ukulele is a possibility, though it's in a very similar tonal range as mandolin, so the sonic contrast won't be there to the extent it is with guitar. Baritone ukulele, which is basically a small, four-string guitar, tuned DGBE like a strings 1-4 of a standard guitar, might be a possibility. Added benefit is that there are lots of decent ones around, used, for not much money; I bought an all-solid-wood Harmony "bari" for about $125, and it's an OK instrument.
That would be interesting, and certainly would fit the bill for being small and playable. But would it be able to hold its own in a group setting, or be able to compete with the volume of the mandolin when we're playing together? I haven't been around a ukulele of any sort in person and I don't know if they can project.


If guitar's more like the sound you want (having those two extra low strings), there are a raft of small-body guitars now available, from the Baby Taylor to the Little Martin, and many Asian equivalents. They have shorter scales, and are decently-made instruments -- at least the Taylor and Martin ones are. I bought a Little Martin, made entirely of, well, Formica, as a travel instrument, and have been very pleasantly surprised with both the price (around $275) and the sound.
I will check this out as well. Is the neck usually narrower with closer string spacing, or is it still a wide standard guitar neck?


Autoharp? Easy for hands of any size, very chordal, and can be adapted to a variety of styles -- if you're good at picking leads and learning a variety of strums. Doesn't get the respect I think it deserves. Appalachian dulcimer? Easy to play, limited as to keys (wanta play everything in D?), not too adaptable to non-folk styles.
Actually, I do have an autoharp and a mountain dulcimer, both inherited from my mother. I've tried to convince my wife to take up the autoharp, as it's pretty darn easy to play. But she just doesn't seem interested. Maybe my friend might want to toy with it. As for the mountain dulcimer, I've done nothing but tinker with it. Perhaps that bears more looking at. Not as a primary instrument for him to play, but maybe for particular songs.

farmerjones
Apr-11-2013, 1:32pm
I'm going to throw in: Kala U-Bass.
Never heard one myself but I've heard the raves.

Justus True Waldron
Apr-11-2013, 1:52pm
Not really a helpful suggestion as it is FAR from an easy instrument to learn and even harder to master, but in terms of duets I think mandolin and cello is really cool. Rushad Eggleston played a show here last month with just him and Dominick Leslie on mandolin. It was in a small room, but I never once thought the sound was lacking variety, and the two instruments balanced each other well. Again, learning cello, especially playing backup/rhythm, is not something easy or quick to master (unless you happen to be Rushad...)

That said, mandolin/banjo is really fun too. There is a whole world of fiddle/banjo music, so it shouldn't be too hard to adapt in a mandolin. I do lots of duet jams with my banjo playing friend here. Then of course there is the guitar as well... always a good accompaniment instrument. I don't buy the small hands thing either - I started playing at 11 or so on a 3/4 sized Gibson... plenty small enough and it sounded great!

In the end though, I think it comes down to getting your friend as many instruments as possible to learn, and letting him decide. Without the guy liking the instrument and the sound it makes on their own there will be no real drive to learn...

fatt-dad
Apr-11-2013, 2:01pm
I've been enjoying duets with the hammered dulcimer.

f-d

stevedenver
Apr-11-2013, 2:09pm
ive given this a bit more thought-
and i mean this respectfully and truly with good intent
send him to whatever local folk music school, or get him into a class

no good deed goes unpunished,

learning an instrument takes perseverence, not talent
it takes practice
it takes time

nothing can substitute for these basics
and they must come from him

you can facilitate, you can gently guide

but after that, let it go
he must have enough drive to commit and follow through

i have many friends and some family that get inspired to play when i have played,
have bought stuff, and less than a year later, its forgotten

jv nc
Apr-11-2013, 2:14pm
If he can sing like this (see link), buy him a bass and make him play it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsXNDNyOAys

Pete Counter
Apr-11-2013, 2:33pm
Fiddle? I love playing with fiddle players and dobro players..guitar player a dime for two dozen!

allenhopkins
Apr-11-2013, 4:23pm
...would it [baritone ukulele] be able to hold its own in a group setting, or be able to compete with the volume of the mandolin when we're playing together? I haven't been around a ukulele of any sort in person and I don't know if they can project.

Yes, it has near-guitar volume. Strung with nylon strings, so not the timbre of a steel-string, but if vigorously strummed, it can well be heard.

_xVQparAJCc


I will check this [small guitar] out as well. Is the neck usually narrower with closer string spacing, or is it still a wide standard guitar neck?

Slightly narrower, but comparable to a guitar; larger dimensions than the baritone uke.


Actually, I do have an autoharp...Maybe my friend might want to toy with it.

Autoharp and mandolin can sound really good, as my friend Drew Smith demonstrates:

JjxDRxO78uE

jaycat
Apr-11-2013, 4:38pm
_xVQparAJCc



Is there some law that you have to look like Tiny Tim to play one of those things?!?

shortymack
Apr-11-2013, 4:40pm
Hard to beat the peanut butter and jelly pairing of a guitar and mandolin IMO.

fatt-dad
Apr-11-2013, 4:56pm
So, actually I think the autoharp is a great idea. Do fiddle tunes together. He can strum along and you can learn his timing. (You know it could be basically hopeless if he isn't musical.)

If it all works out, he'll know a bunch of tunes by ear and he can move to another instrument. He'll know how to hold a pick, when to make chord changes and it'll be fun. I think it could work out.

f-d

TheArimathean
Apr-11-2013, 5:21pm
I think Bouzouki or OM might also be good possibilities.

little george
Apr-11-2013, 8:30pm
Hi there:
I wouldnīt choose the ukelele (and I love it). Whenever an acoustic guitar is there, he wonīt be heard at all. Soprano, concert, tenor or bari are all the same. They donīt have volume enough to be noticed in any jam. Resoukes do sound higher, but just as reso guitars, canīt just be strummed and sound good, they become very muddy. They are better played with finger picks, but that involves a lot of picking hand work. Also reso ukes donīt have lots of bass.

I own an Ubass, and let me tell you this is a ridiculously easy instrument to play. On it, I teached a 12 years boy with NO musical experience to play a tune in 10 minutes once. Then I played the uke with him (we were in a family party), and it sounded pretty nice. His happy face was something Iīll allways remember...

Properly amped, it mimics nicely the double bass sound, so he would probably be wellcome to the jam you are going (unless its one full of purist musicians). In fact, in about a couple of years, he might be playing more gigs than you ;)

It has lots and lots of bottom, and he wonīt have any problem with the size of his hands or pinkie. I think you can find them for lefties, so another problem solved. In my opinion a competent bass player with a medium mandolin player, will act as a magnet to any guitar or banjo player in your area...

But hey, thatīs just my 2 cents...

allenhopkins
Apr-11-2013, 11:22pm
...I wouldnīt choose the ukelele (and I love it). Whenever an acoustic guitar is there, he wonīt be heard at all. Soprano, concert, tenor or bari are all the same...But hey, thatīs just my 2 cents...

Not so sure of that; I can hear Evy's soprano uke along with Don's and Phyllis's Martin guitars (of course, Evy's ukulele is a Martin too):

k9tBrTJtH9g

mrmando
Apr-11-2013, 11:51pm
More cowbell!

Tobin
Apr-12-2013, 6:50am
Thanks for all the input, folks!

As of last night we did some more talking, and I think we're narrowing it down a bit. I grilled him on what he was interested in, and it seems that he really just wants something that he and I can play together. Being a newbie, he isn't thinking about playing in jam sessions or doing gigs. I suspect that sort of thing will come with time, though, if he sticks with it. But for now, he wants something that I can teach him to play and that will pair well with my mandolin.

After watching the banjo player at last night's bluegrass jam session, I think he has talked himself out of the banjo. I had suggested the octave mandolin or mandola to him, as I think it would probably be the perfect compromise. It has a lower register than the mandolin, providing the bassy balance I'm looking for. It's only 4 courses of strings with a narrower neck than a guitar, so he should have no issues playing it. He watched some YouTube videos of it being played, and he really likes the sound. So we're probably going to go that direction.

The trick now is finding a decent one that isn't going to break the bank. I'm still keeping the tenor guitar in the back of my mind as an alternative, as I think it satisfies all the same requirements, and might be a bit cheaper to invest in.

catmandu2
Apr-12-2013, 8:15am
Tenor guitar -- great idea!

Randi Gormley
Apr-12-2013, 11:33am
Is there a specific requirement that it be a stringed instrument? I was thinking of keyboards -- anybody can find a nice electronic keyboard and do vamping and chords and melody and whatnot and it's a comfortable instrument to muck around with if you're just learning. You can turn them way down, too.

JH Murray
Apr-12-2013, 2:09pm
An easy way to try out the octave mandolin is to restring an acoustic guitar and change the strings around. Take off the two lowest strings off the guitar. Then
4G take the guitar's 5A string; tune it down to G . 3D take the guitar's 4d string, tune it D .2A take the 3G string, tune it up to A. 1E take the guitar's 1E string, tune it to E.
Put the capo on the fifth fret, and he can try out the mandola as well.
In the same way, an easy way to try out the mandola is to take a tenor ukulele and restring it using a set of classical guitar nylon strings. . ForThe low C = use the guitar's 5th A string. For the G = 4th string D. For the D =use guitar's 2nd string B. For the A= 1st string E.
These are low cost 'try before you buy' which will let him get the feeling of what the instrument would be like. I did that with my son's old spanish guitar before I bought my octave mandolin.

Tobin
Apr-12-2013, 2:44pm
Is there a specific requirement that it be a stringed instrument? I was thinking of keyboards -- anybody can find a nice electronic keyboard and do vamping and chords and melody and whatnot and it's a comfortable instrument to muck around with if you're just learning. You can turn them way down, too.
Yeah, I think we want to stick with acoustic stringed instruments. A keyboard is a bit unwieldy for sitting on the porch or taking out to the barn to jam for a while. But I do have a baby grand piano that I will definitely be using to teach him music theory.


An easy way to try out the octave mandolin is to restring an acoustic guitar and change the strings around. Take off the two lowest strings off the guitar. Then
4G take the guitar's 5A string; tune it down to G . 3D take the guitar's 4d string, tune it D .2A take the 3G string, tune it up to A. 1E take the guitar's 1E string, tune it to E.
Put the capo on the fifth fret, and he can try out the mandola as well.
Brilliant! I think I shall give this a try, just to toy around with it. It might be a good way to get a jump start on showing him how to play an instrument tuned in fifths.

I'll tell you, though, I'm starting to have second thoughts about choosing a specialty instrument like the OM or mandola. They're hard to find and terribly expensive. It seems that there's no decent newbie-budget-friendly arch-top version. I'm not a fan of flat-top sound, but that's all I can come up with in his price range. I'll be searching pretty hard in the next days/weeks, and I'm sure I'll have more specific questions in the CBOM forum.

Jonas Bombeke
Apr-12-2013, 7:39pm
A lot of people have already suggested good duet instruments for the mandolin, and since I have limited knowledge of that, I won't divulge into that any further.

However, as a lefty, I can say that I started playing right handed, as it didn't seem so worthy to learn everthing mirrored (being internet-schooled). Quite frankly, I don't regret it either. So, I guess you could say that it's entirely possible and reasonable for a leftie to play instruments right handed.

I do admit two things though:
- Although my left hand certainly is my dominant hand, I am kind of ambidextrous.
- It probably took me longer than most people to get up to speed with picking with my right hand, especially triplets and tremolos, while my left hand fingering technique developed way easier. But hey, I was able to play decently fast after a few months of practice, so it's certainly possible.

Hope I was of any help at all!
Cheers!
Jonas

JH Murray
Apr-12-2013, 7:49pm
On Ebay you can find Hora brand mandola or octave mandolin for about $250. There are several threads which discuss them. I've seen Trinity College for about $650. There is a house brand called Alabama which has them for around $450 which I have played here in Canada.

ambrosepottie
Apr-13-2013, 5:54pm
Ukulele won't cut it volume wise. I do duets with a mandolin player and have tried soprano (Martin) and baritone uke. Tenor guitar is the way to go. You can be up and running almost as fast as on uke for simple chords and melodies. I'm a lefty as well and I have an old Regal tenor with a trapeze tailpiece and floating bridge, so it's easy to switch over to lefty. I didn't even have to recut the nut.

Jim
Apr-13-2013, 6:49pm
Bass, Maybe U bass, I play with a Lefty who plays bass rt handed. Big neck but mostly only one note at a time. Servicable electric basses are quite inexpensive and you can get small amps with headphone jacks for practice that won't disturb others. If your friend has rhythm a basic bass line is pretty quick to learn.

George R. Lane
Apr-13-2013, 7:01pm
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?93589-Taylor-GS-Mini-converted-to-octave-mandolin&highlight=Taylor+Mini

The above link talks about a Taylor Mini GS converted to an octave mandolin. It might make a great Tenor.

J.Albert
Apr-14-2013, 1:00pm
Your friend has to pick his own instrument.

The one that "sounds like" the sounds he hears inside that he would want to make for himself.

If you "put something into his hands" that isn't what he feels a desire to learn, it's probably not going to work out, at least to your expectations.

Call me a pessimist, but if you want someone to play with, find someone who already has an instrument they're playing or learning on. That shows more motivation on their part.

Tobin
Apr-15-2013, 8:32am
Once again, thanks for all the helpful advice.

I took JH Murray's tip and re-strung my guitar as he described, and both my friend and I liked it. Granted, the fat neck still makes it feel weird, but it was enough to convince him. So we finally decided on going with the tenor guitar, tuned as an octave mandolin (GDAE). Mainly because it's cheaper to buy a decent tenor guitar than it is to buy an octave mandolin, and I think it will be easier for him to get into playing if he only has to deal with 4 strings rather than 8. We can always "upgrade" to a real OM later, although I'm hoping he'll be quite content with the tenor guitar.

So for now, I've given him the basic chords he'll need to start playing, and he's practicing them on my re-strung guitar. He's been looking around online for a tenor guitar, and we were discussing various options. In his zeal, he went ahead an ordered one. I actually wished he would have waited a little longer so we could do some detailed comparisons of details and price-shopping. But it's done now. He bought a Blueridge BR-40T (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/blueridge-br-40t-contemporary-series-tenor-acoustic-guitar).

I'll be starting a new thread in the tenor guitar subforum to ask about string choices and such, for GDAE tuning at this scale.

allenhopkins
Apr-15-2013, 11:16am
...In his zeal, he went ahead an ordered one. I actually wished he would have waited a little longer so we could do some detailed comparisons of details and price-shopping. But it's done now. He bought a Blueridge BR-40T (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/blueridge-br-40t-contemporary-series-tenor-acoustic-guitar)...

By all accounts, he picked a good one, value for its affordable price: solid top, laminated mahogany body, decently made as most Blueridge instruments seem to be.

Good luck! The nearly 23-inch scale may still be a bit long for smaller hands, but from your posts, it seems the neck's thickness is more the issue, rather than the distance between frets. Hope this works out.

Jim Adwell
Apr-15-2013, 11:30am
I have a fairly new Blueridge BR40T (from Elderly) and yes, it's pretty dang good for an inexpensive guitar.