A 70's F12 for $5000! Really!

[f5loar]

Okay, I'm going to vent my frustration over dealers that don't know the market and how to price a mandolin. This 70's F12 has been for sale on ebay and other places for over a year now with the same $5000 price. They also have a '77 F5 for $6,000. At some point if this dealer made a mistake and paid to much up front they are going to have to give it up on making a decent profit if they truely want to sell it. No need to go over the market demand on these 70's Gibson. We've got hundreds of pages on the cafe to testify these were the absolute, undisputed, worst years Gibson ever produced a mandolin. This dealer makes it sound in the description like this F12 came with a custom F5 old style fingerboard with lots of other BS to describe it. NOT! It's standard catalog spec and if this dealer ain't figured that out (after I told them 6 mos. ago) they need to invest in some vintage Gibson catalogs and read up on the specs before they believe what that original owner tells them. There is a market for these "dark" years Gibson mandolins. There are price guides out there to go by. Vintage Guitar publishes one every year. Surely this dealer has one. Those are full of mistakes so I don't put a lot trust in them. Search the internet to see what other vintage dealer might be selling one for. A quick search shows Gruhn has a nice excellent condition '76 F5 for $3500. This dealer wants $6000? Almost double? You got to be kidding. I know we are still in a semi-recession that is slowly coming out of a double dipped recession but really now, is it worth your time and trouble to place this ad here and for my time to read it? I think not. I don't care who's toes I step on here this is just stupid if you really think you can get $5000 for this F12 and $6000 for the F5. It's one thing to ask a $52,000 premuim because a '57 F5 belonged to but not played by the great Duane Eddy and it's another thing to rip up a luthier for charging 10 times his normal asking price only to find out he got the coma in the wrong place in the ad, but this, this is just crazy to ask such a price. I say get a life and wake up and smell the roses and if you loose a few hundred bucks over a poor investment get over it. There are better things to worry about. There I've got this off my chest. I welcome anyone that can prove me wrong about my thoughts on this ad.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/65103

[allenhopkins]

Tom, no one can prove you wrong -- mostly because you aren't wrong. But overly-hopeful sellers trying to find the naive buyer who'll plunk down 75% above market value for a mandolin (or any other item), are nothing new.

Watch Pawn Stars, Storage Wars or Auction Hunters -- any of the raft of "reality" shows that feature assigning values to antiques, collectibles or oddities -- and you'll find most of the sellers shown are wildly optimistic about what they can get for their stuff. Then the prospective buyer throws a bucket of ice-water over them by offering 25% of what they think the price should be.

I agree that someone who makes even a "side" business of buying and selling instruments, is just being stupid if he/she keeps listing an item over and over again at an unrealistic price. As you say, that seller should have some grasp of current market prices, and should be able to accurately ID and price any instrument being sold, as to vintage, specs, features, and condition.

Makes me think of the old story of the kid with his puppy, saying, "This is the greatest dog ever! I wouldn't take a thousand dollars for this dog!" Later, he's seen without the puppy, and someone asks about it; the kid says, "Well, I traded that dog for these two $500 kittens!" Maybe I should offer to trade my "$5K" Zimmermann Style 6 1900-vintage Autoharp (that I paid $300 for) even-up for the F-12.

[shortymack]

Greed isnt a good trait to have but its no different than the '57 Eddy to me, except its only 2500 over priced. But as the old adages go, its worth whatever someone will pay and PT Barnums theres a sucker born every minute.

[Gary Hedrick]

It's all part of pixy dust and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.......

or really that which is swept up after the elephants go by in the parade....

[teleman73]

I've been noticing this to a lesser extent even among many established and reputable online dealers, particularly with the mid-range instruments (the higher end of eastman, The Loar, Kentucky, etc. and the Breedlove american series). The seller will list an "original price" and then mark their "discounted price" when in fact the discounted price is what the instrument maker recommends as the retail price. I understand that not every business can compete with the discount stores, but rather than lying to me and telling me its being marked down when its not just leave the price standard. As long as the sellers prices are not inflated beyond market value of that instrument I am more likely to buy from their business if I they treat me well as a customer. I have no desire to buy from the big discount brands and would much rather buy from a smaller company, but if a seller tries to mislead me about how much an instrument is supposed to cost I loose my trust for them as a business and am unlikely to buy from them.

[barney 59]

I purchased a handmade '70's Bernie Rico built brazilian dread off of ebay for $960 and it turns out to have been a very good deal for me as I prefer it over my '67 D28. There's a guy with an identical guitar that has been advertising on ebay at the never changing price of $9999 for well over a year. I keep hoping he gets it!.
If I'm selling something I will most likely ask the most that I think it's worth and hope it moves at that but it's just a starting point. It's a lot easier to come down on your price than go the other way. But you see this on ebay all the time. Someone comes across an item (say a Gibson mandolin)and then does a little research. They find one somewhere, like maybe at Mandolin Brothers, that somehow seems similar to theirs. Since they really don't know what they have they don't realize that what they have isn't really what the other one is and they aren't offering what the dealer is offering anyway, which is integrity and total backing of the item they are selling + a cozy room to try it out. They think they should get the same money.

[Vernon Hughes]

The pawn shops and reality shows are really messing things up..Just had an experience trying to buy a well worn and busted pumpkin A gibson (sans pickguard,TP cover and no case),in all actuality and realistically a 400.00 project at best that I could fix as a labor of love and most likely get 850.00 for when done..Seems the owner took it to the local pawn shop for value advice..The advice was "man thats an all original old gibson mandolin,its got to be worth 15-1800.00" Needless to say it's still with the original owner. And these guys are experts in value pricing!

[barney 59]

Who says pawn shops are experts at value pricing? They are pawn shops, the place where you take your stuff when your really down and out. They are experts at judging desperation and the more desperation they sense the less value your thing has. Obviously the person with the A model Gibson was not omitting any desperation pheromones! The $15-1800 wasn't an offer, that's for sure!

[Vernon Hughes]

I wasn't implying that pawn shop people were experts..but they sure claim to be in a lot of cases!..

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

I often marveled at some of the prices by dealers and what not. This F12 is definitely up there. But since we 're on the subject - how about the $2500 (appraisal value) A-Jr? To me that sounds wildly optimistic

[Vernon Hughes]

I had a closet find, perfect and complete, '24 snakehead A jr. a while back that only realized 1700.00. I felt lucky to get that!

[barney 59]

I often marveled at some of the prices by dealers and what not. This F12 is definitely up there. But since we 're on the subject - how about the $2500 (appraisal value) A-Jr? To me that sounds wildly optimistic

What type of appraisal? Some appraisals are mainly for insurance purposes. If your item is lost in a fire or stolen what would it cost to replace it quickly and easily,not haggling for a deal or searching ebay but buying straight from a dealer and getting it right away. Those types of appraisals usually are on the high end. There is a jeweler that advertises for diamond jewelry on TV here and part of the ad is "guaranteed to appraise for double". Seems ridiculous that I can buy something retail that is always available for a price but able to get an appraisal that is twice the standard retail price. Vintage instruments? Each one is different, it's always a gray area.

[stevedenver]

this is a simple example of a little mis-information versus some real research and effort, over a reasonable period of time

its hard know if it's ignorance,
and listneing to the first and only info you get

or simply waiting for a pigeon
im getting more and more cynical, though, as i get older

the world is full of brigands and thieves, and knaves as well

otoh, put gibby on the headstock and as a seller
youre half way home to a sale to someone who wants something but doesnt know much else

add to that comparable gibby prices of almost any era, and ignorance will make this seem reasonable and fair to someone

[stevedenver]

even guitar center has one for 3500 right now
now we know -waiting for pigeon

[Willie Poole]

I posted that I saw one at the Guitar center in Lakeland Fla. last Oct for somewhere in the $4,800 range, wonder if these stores got the idea that is what they are worth from that ad? I just got back from Florida but didn`t get a chance to see if it was still at that G.C store....

Willie