Stringing a mandolin?

[clobflute]

Happy Easter :)

I'm more of a lute player than a mandolin player and just bought my first mandolin.
I gather that the violin tuning is more popular.

Does anyone have an alternative tuning to recommend? The Jethro Tull tuning seems appealing, for its simplicity so I may try this first.

What strings would I need? My guitar shop sells classical guitar and steel/nylon strings, but I can't find anything for mandolin. Can I adapt guitar strings for mandolin, or would I need a specialist string type?

Thanks :)

[Paul Busman]

GDAE is pretty simple since the intervals between string pairs is the same. You can transpose tunes by simply moving up or down across the fingerboard. Also, the vast majority of tabs are written in this tuning so if you decide to learn from tabs this would be the simplest. I'd suggest getting comfortable with the Australian tuning (G'dae ;) ) before experimenting.
(On the other hand, I'd never criticize anything that Ian Anderson does totally. He's one of my favorite musicians and has been for many years).

[UsuallyPickin]

Well .. any loop end "steel" string will work. As for tunings , there are several fiddle tunings that can be adapted for mandolin. I would however only use those tunings that tune down to pitch. THe double strings of a mandolin tuned up to a higher pitch could very well cause damage to the mandolin top. Try G D G D tuning, tune the E and A strings down one whole step. As for strings try JustStrings.com....... they have several brands available as well as single strings.Luck... R/

[justinhart]

A popular string is D'Addario J74. I've been impressed with them on my mandolin.

[Phil Goodson]

When starting something new, why not start in the mainstream?
Use J74 strings and tune GDAE.
Try other things after you know what you want. Read this forum for LOTS of information. It's all here.

[clobflute]

Thanks for the recommendations.

I'll try the EDAE tuning (somehow I remember better when the top and bottom strings are the same key) and move onto the Australian tuning if I get any better :)

I've found a set of D'Addario J46 high tension strings. Are these okay to use? They have no loop end so I wondering if it would be long enough to double back up to the peg.

Guess everyone is gettinng their strings from a mandolin specialist? I've never seen mandolin specific strings on sale.

Have a G'Dae :)

[clobflute]

When starting something new, why not start in the mainstream?
Use J74 strings and tune GDAE.
Try other things after you know what you want. Read this forum for LOTS of information. It's all here.

Thanks - I guess I don't have a mandolin tutor, so I'm just curious to try it out. I like the frenetic style of the mandolin although am not likely to ever get to play mainstream or be very good at it, so I'm just looking to have some fun on it based on what I can play (errr...not a lot..!).

Is there a beginners' section on this forum? I hunted everywhere but somehow kept on reverting back to the 'For sale [BUY ME!] section :)

[Jim]

From "home" on the left there's links to Chords, Lessons & Tab. Great places to start.

[Earl Gamage]

The real reason for alternate tunings is to make something easier to play or to get a certain sound, like on Get Up John or old time tunes with drones like Bonaparte's Retreat.

Play GDAE until you run across a tune that makes sense to tune your mandolin differently on.

[Willie Poole]

Type in "Mandolin Strings" on your computer and a lot of dealers will pop up so you can buy strings from them....If you were to tell us what type of mandolin you own and maybe how old it is we would be better able to suggest a brand and gauge of string to use....Older mandolins such as the bowl backs were not made to accept some of the heavier gauges....

Willie

[bmac]

Mandolin strings are steel... and very high tension. The high E strings are very succeptable to breakage if installed wrong...

I would suggest studying frets.com on installng mandolin strings. If done correctly they are less likely to break which can be a real aggrivation.

[Tom Cherubini]

Word to the wise: Elderly's string prices are as low as others, their selection is as big, and their regular-mail shipping is $2 bucks and some pennies. I'm tired of paying more for shipping than I do for the strings.

[allenhopkins]

...just bought my first mandolin...Does anyone have an alternative tuning to recommend?...What strings would I need? My guitar shop sells classical guitar and steel/nylon strings, but I can't find anything for mandolin. Can I adapt guitar strings for mandolin, or would I need a specialist string type?...

OK, you bought a mandolin. I'd guess there are strings on it, right? So let's start with those.

If you have a "guitar shop" that stocks strings, they can order mandolin strings. The J74's from D'Addario are a "popular favorite" for flat-or-carved-top-and-back mandolins. If you've purchased a bowl-back, you don't want to put those on it. You need a lighter-gauge string, like the GHS A240. Heavier strings on a bowl-back can cause damage,

You have a set of high-tension guitar strings, D'Addario J46's. For one thing, you only have six strings there, your mandolin takes eight. First problem. Second problem: the first string of the J46's is .029 inches in diameter; the first string of the J74 mandolin strings is .011 inches, less than half the tension. Putting the J46's on your mandolin and tuning them up to pitch would put much more strain on its construction than it's built to take.

Mandolin strings are easily obtainable; if your local shop won't order them, there's the internet. And don't try to "double back" the guitar strings -- by which I take it you're thinking of attaching one end to a tuning peg, looping the string around the tailpiece string post, and then attaching the other end to another tuning peg. This will not work.

Experimentation with alternative tunings and stringing works best when you've at least explored, if not mastered, the "conventional" style. As a lutenist, you've no doubt found that there are a wide range of tunings for lute; perhaps there isn't a "standard" tuning the way there is for violin and mandolin. Not enough of an expert to comment on that, but I do think that starting out with regular mandolin strings, and GDAE tuning, is going to get you where you want to go the fastest.

[clobflute]

OK, you bought a mandolin. I'd guess there are strings on it, right? So let's start with those.

Hi,

it didn't come with strings. I have an old-fashioned 8 string (4 courses) bowl type mandolin made in Italy. There is no name on it so I've named it Mickey Mandolin until it makes more than a squeak. It looks like it used to be very pretty, but probably needs a bit of restoration work first. I can see a crack in it and some minor work on the pegs/bridge to tighten them up. From its size, it must be a soprano mandolin - around 25cm bowl with the usual bowl ribbing in the rear.

Broke two lute strings trying to get it to start. Although I'm using higher tension string, I can't seem to get enough tension for the string to hold a note. I thought I'd just try and get a few strings on it, just to hear what it sounds like.

After threading the string through the eyelet in the peg, and trying to twist the tuning key, it doesn't seem to do anything.

I guess the tuning keys are loose and need to be loosened up. Guess I'll have to take things slower and wait another week or two and order some proper strings before I do any more damage and tragically end my Mickey Mandolin career before I start!

Thanks for the help guys.

[clobflute]

Mandolin strings are steel... and very high tension. The high E strings are very succeptable to breakage if installed wrong...

I would suggest studying frets.com on installng mandolin strings. If done correctly they are less likely to break which can be a real aggrivation.

What a great resource!

Thanks - I'm just looking at the mandolin pages on stringing now.

[JeffD]

Play GDAE until you run across a tune that makes sense to tune your mandolin differently on.

Well said. Exactly what I would have said if I had gotten here earlier.

[JeffD]

it didn't come with strings. I have an old-fashioned 8 string (4 courses) bowl type mandolin made in Italy. I can see a crack in it and some minor work on the pegs/bridge to tighten them up. From its size, it must be a soprano mandolin - around 25cm bowl with the usual bowl ribbing in the rear. ...

Broke two lute strings trying to get it to start. Although I'm using higher tension string, I can't seem to get enough tension for the string to hold a note.

Ahh. I would only use ultra light gauge strings on a mandolin such as you describe. GHS makes some ultra lights that I use on my bowls. If you cannot obtain a tone with them, something else is wrong.


After threading the string through the eyelet in the peg, and trying to twist the tuning key, it doesn't seem to do anything.

Makes me wonder. You said it had no strings. Did it have a bridge? Without a bridge you will not get any sound with any strings.

[clobflute]

Ahh. I would only use ultra light gauge strings on a mandolin such as you describe. GHS makes some ultra lights that I use on my bowls. If you cannot obtain a tone with them, something else is wrong.



Makes me wonder. You said it had no strings. Did it have a bridge? Without a bridge you will not get any sound with any strings.

My goodness. I read your post and started to panic and then started checking it out againn. yes - it does have a bridge - it's a very slight elevation with 8 grooves for the strings. But whatever I've done to it seems to have opened up cracks all over the place in it. I held it up and inspected it with a flute lamp and found several cracks all over over which I never noticed. The wood seems to be very dry. I'm guessing this is probably why I'm not even getting a decent sound with the lute strings.

Oh dear. Looks like I'm going to have start all over again.

Can anyone recommend a repairer in England?

[Jim]

You should post pictures, so we can get an idea of how much repair is required. I'm sure there are a great number of luthiers in england and maybe some are on this forum.

[Jim Garber]

The D'Addario J46 (http://www.juststrings.com/dad-ej46.html) strings are classical guitar strings. Forget those. And using lute strings makes little sense either.

You sound very confused. Tell us where you are located in the UK and I am sure some Cafe members can recommend some local repair person and perhaps a mandolin instructor.

You do play lute... did you ever need to get your lute set up? They are structurally somewhat different but I am sure that someone who works on lutes would have a some clue as to how to stabilize your instrument.

[clobflute]

Hi,

Thanks for the advice (I am listening and taking it in, even if it seems like I'm not! :)). I just happen to have lots of other non-mandolin strings so I'm just impatient to get it working to make a sound.

Now that this isn't happening - I live in London in England. There must be a mandolin repairer around here. I've always found it better to bring an instrument to a repairer to inspect and check it than upload photos. Usually they say that I need to bring it in anyway.

As much as I would love to have a mandolin instructor, I just want to try it out on my own to see how I get on.

Jim - I had 4 lute lessons, and that was it. I happened to work overseas in the Far East and bought an oriental lute. So I've adapted what few lessons I've had to have some fun with it. The rest, I bought some DVDs and a lot of youtube hours and watched it. Here's the sound I'm working towards (this is just my practice vid)

www.youtube.com/user/clobflute?feature=watch

The lute isn't set up apart from me tuning it with a digital tuner to ADAE. So I'm not afraid of finding my own way around a new instrument. After all, it's for me to listen to, not really for others. It came with 4 strings so that's what I'm using with this. I tried using these for the mandolin, but they don't make a sound (for the above sound crack reasons).

Be horrified lol but don't worry - I do have another day job :)

[clobflute]

oh...the link doesn't work. Not sure why.

I've tried this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYwx1sfPpok&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I guess that the mandolin would have the same kind of frenetic tension in playing but I'll find out when I get mine fixed...

[allenhopkins]

...it does have a bridge - it's a very slight elevation with 8 grooves for the strings...whatever I've done to it seems to have opened up cracks all over the place in it…Can anyone recommend a repairer in England?

If your mandolin has an attached bridge but no strings, could be a problem. Mandolins have what's called a floating bridge, meaning the bridge is not glued to the top, but held on by string pressure. So without strings, the bridge should be detached; if it's glued on, it could be mis-located. Or the "slight elevation with 8 grooves" could just be the "bend" in the canted top that most bowlbacks have, and the grooves could have been worn into it by strings that were left on after the bridge was removed. The bridge should be a a separate piece of wood, usually rosewood or ebony, with a slotted "saddle" atop it.

Where in England are you located? A Google search (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_rn=7&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=mandolin%20repair%20l&qe=bWFuZG9saW4gcmVwYWlyIGxvbmRvbiBlbmdsYW5k&qesig=leH-B3xvbLYJEZ9QSjYxaw&pkc=AFgZ2tkmEntQ-4Jd-ArwYV_-5N7Fxy0t1JVQFxerGEsOClOX3-4nSXRE0pLkdLJsUhe6s8vJxhH9qJjUW-96lfFoUxcMBbVsxA&cp=30&gs_id=39&xhr=t&q=mandolin+repair+london+england&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=mandolin+repair+london+england&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44442042,d.dmQ&fp=a73cfdc64c6a8232&biw=1421&bih=854) turns up several instrument repair shops in London. A call to Trevor at The Acoustic Music Co./ (http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/) in Brighton might elicit some references.

If you have an old, cracked bowl-back mandolin, you may find that restoration cost would significantly exceed the market value of your instrument, leaving you with the dilemma of whether to spend the pounds to get it fixed, or look for a better-condition one to learn on. A good pro evaluation of the current instrument's condition would seem a realistic next step.

[Pasha Alden]

Hi I would if I were you tune in d g and stick to that. I know Joni Mitchel tuned her guitar differently. However, she had a problem with her hand, I think it was due to polio suffered in childhood? That I may stand under correction, but definitely she tuned her guitar not in d g. So I would imagine it can work well enough.

[Randi Gormley]

Hmmm. I could understand the idea of taking it to a professional for evaluation rather than posting it on some random website, but the expertise on this website has often been used by the professionals (of other stringed instruments) who need some help with anything mandolin. Not that anyone can fix something long-distance, but most of the people on here who regularly evaluate mandolins could tell you by looking at what you have if (a) you actually have a mandolin, (b) whether all the parts are there (c) what its apparent strengths and weaknesses are and (d) whether it actually can be fixed based on things like cracks, bowed neck and missing parts. Seriously. And we're free, too. And by now, I at least am fascinated by what you actually have and would love to look at it just for my own prurient interest!

[Jim Garber]

clobflute: I think your Chinese lute is a pipa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipa)which is much larger than a mandolin. The liuqin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liuqin) is closer in size to the mandolin. According to that article it can actually be tuned to mandolin/violin tuning (GDAE) or GDGD.

As far as luthiers, you are right that you will prob end up there anyway, however if there is any possibility that this is a completely unplayable instrument you can get advice here, as Randy says. OTOH you are certainly free to do as you wish. Depending on what you actually have, tho, your luthier may dissuade you from spending money on it.

[Jim]

And by now, I at least am fascinated by what you actually have and would love to look at it just for my own prurient interest! Me too.

[clobflute]

Hi,

Thanks everyone - wow that is really helpful. I'm learning more and more, and I still haven't got a mandolin working yet.

Jim - that's right. I really love this huge oversized pipa lute! It makes such a great sound. It has become my favourite lute - it really bends the notes like I wouldn't believe and the right hand fingering technique is very rich. Or at least, I don't know how to do it on traditional 6 course lutes...

Now the problem with it ... is its size. I was determined to bring it back home with me, and I hauled it onto an aeroplane. I ended up being surcharged for extra hand luggage due to its fragility. Since I travel a lot for work, this is why I thought it would be great to have a smaller mandolin to fit inside my suitcase for practice.

Here it is:

www.flickr.com/photos/94572860@N04/

Please don't upset me and tell me its beyond repair. I'll cry me a tremelo if that's the case :/

I don't think it's worth very much, but I just like the cute size and the old fashioned style of its bowl. You can see two big cracks, and the sides coming undone. I seem to have made it worse by oiling it. I'm not very fond of the modern mandolins, and the f shaped saucepan ones are the less interesting for me but I'm not a player (yet). The ancient looking bowl shaped mandolin with 8 strings are what I'd like to play :)

[Jim Garber]

Here it is:

www.flickr.com/photos/94572860@N04/

Please don't upset me and tell me its beyond repair. I'll cry me a tremelo if that's the case :/

Well.... anything is possible to fix. Yours doesn't look too bad but to truly get it playable you will have to put some money into it. The sides and the crack have to be repaired and you need a functional bridge.

You can PM forum member Tavy (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/member.php?11636-Tavy)who does some nice restoration work on bowlbacks and I know he is in the UK tho I am not sure where he is or if he is anywhere near London.

The other possibility I know is Dave Hynds, a transplanted Englishman living in France. His web site (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/member.php?11636-Tavy). he has worked on quite a few bowlbacks and also makes repro bridges.

Good luck on this. It does look like a Napoli-made mandolin from around the turn of the last century. It might be a decent maker but in the condition it is in, not worth too much. Those are bone tuner buttons which are pretty cool.