View Full Version : Is this any good? (Lark in the Morning)
99892
This for sale, used, at GuitarCenter.com. It looks like a flat back, flat top mandolin with an oval sound hole, which is what I'm looking for in a mandolin. It looks like it has classical guitar style tuning pegs as well, which is certainly interesting. For this price, I wouldn't expect much, but would it sound okay and would it be playable?
Just know that my standards aren't high, as I'm a beginner. I had a $50 Rogue , and it wasn't all that bad for me. I've never even played a "good" mandolin before.
MikeEdgerton
Mar-20-2013, 2:36pm
That really isn't a step up from the Rogue in my book.
Jim Garber
Mar-20-2013, 2:37pm
LITM imports most of their instruments. I don't think they make any of them. This is prob from eastern Europe (my guess). Could be OK. How much are they asking? What kinds of woods? Solid woods? have you actually played it or seen it in person?
Jim Garber
Mar-20-2013, 2:38pm
I agree with Mike. Maybe take a few bucks and see a good luthier and ask what he/she can do to improve your Rogue.That might be the most sensible thing to do when on a tight budget.
I don't actually have my Rogue anymore. So right now I've got no mandolin. This one is $200.
LITM imports most of their instruments. I don't think they make any of them. This is prob from eastern Europe (my guess). Could be OK. How much are they asking? What kinds of woods? Solid woods? have you actually played it or seen it in person?
I haven't seen or played it, and there is very little info given. I'm planning on inquiring if you guys here think I may have something. Here's the link. http://www.guitarcenter.com/In-Store-Used-USED-LARK-IN-THE-MORNING-MANDOLIN-WC-227-112012-108338167-i2846073.gc
Jim Garber
Mar-20-2013, 2:58pm
If you tried this one in person and liked it, maybe OK. Otherwise, save a little more, say $300-400 and get yourself a used Big Muddy/ Mid-Missouri (same company) They are much better made.
This one (http://santafe.craigslist.org/msg/3555871534.html) would be a good deal assuming the condition is good and it was still available. Esp with hard shell case.
if you tried this one in person and liked ti, maybe OK. Otherwise, save a little more, say $300-400 and get yourself a used Big Muddy/ Mid-Missouri (same company) They are much better made.
This one (http://us.yakaz.com/posts/0002l1ob3v4o25oi) would be a good deal assuming the condition is good. Esp with hard shell case.
I'm not necessarily looking for anything great, just a decent mandolin so I can at least have one that I can temporarily play. If this doesn't work out, I'm going to try to work out a deal for a Regal reverse scroll mandolin I found locally for about the same price.
Jim Garber
Mar-20-2013, 3:07pm
Depending on the condition, I would go for the Regal but bargain them down some. They are all right but unless it is in pristine shape not worth that much. Well maybe if it has a case...
Depending on the condition, I would go for the Regal but bargain them down some. They are all right but unless it is in pristine shape not worth that much. Well maybe if it has a case...
Well you see, it does have a case, and I haven't looked at it up close, but they're actually asking $300 so I plan on trying to get them down to $200, if the condition is right.
Jim Garber
Mar-20-2013, 3:34pm
Good luck. Bear in mind that vintage instruments have another set of issues with them. Are you buying this in person or remotely? if this is what you have to spend I would be careful and not be in too much of a hurry to buy the first thing that comes around. You might go to a reliable dealer and buy a reasonable mandolin that includes set up. Otherwise,. you may be stuck with something you regret buying with no recourse. Just my 2 cents.
I know you want an oval hole but this Rover (http://elderly.com/new_instruments/names/rover-rm-50b-a-model-mandolin--RM50B.htm) sounds like a good deal and includes Elderly's expert set up and would be backed by an excellent store.
FWIW. My LITM cavaquinho was made in Paracho, Mexico. It's ok, but does not have a truss rod.
lenf12
Mar-20-2013, 3:42pm
They're asking $300?!?!? If they were asking $50, I still wouldn't be interested in that mandolin. The above advice to save up a bit more money is very sound. There are much better values in the $200 to $300 asking range. Check out used Eastman, Kentucky and The Loar oval holes for better quality, good sounding, and more playable mandolins. You'll be much happier in the end.
Len B.
Clearwater, FL
They're asking $300?!?!? If they were asking $50, I still wouldn't be interested in that mandolin. The above advice to save up a bit more money is very sound. There are much better values in the $200 to $300 asking range. Check out used Eastman, Kentucky and The Loar oval holes for better quality, good sounding, and more playable mandolins. You'll be much happier in the end.
Len B.
Clearwater, FL
It's an antique store, so they have little clue what the value is.
Good luck. Bear in mind that vintage instruments have another set of issues with them. Are you buying this in person or remotely? if this is what you have to spend I would be careful and not be in too much of a hurry to buy the first thing that comes around. You might go to a reliable dealer and buy a reasonable mandolin that includes set up. Otherwise,. you may be stuck with something you regret buying with no recourse. Just my 2 cents.
I know you want an oval hole but this Rover (http://elderly.com/new_instruments/names/rover-rm-50b-a-model-mandolin--RM50B.htm) sounds like a good deal and includes Elderly's expert set up and would be backed by an excellent store.
The Lark in the Morning I would buy online, from Guitar Center, and they offer a full refund.
MikeEdgerton
Mar-20-2013, 5:27pm
I'd do one of two things. I'd look at getting another Rogue for 50 bucks from Musicians Friend or I'd buy one of the inexpensive Kentucky mandolins from the same source.
I'd do one of two things. I'd look at getting another Rogue for 50 bucks from Musicians Friend or I'd buy one of the inexpensive Kentucky mandolins from the same source.
I know I'm not being exactly reasonable, but it's somewhat important to me to get a flat back. It's kind of like scroll envy, only not as expensive.
What about this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baron-MDL-25W-3-Mandolin-GREAT-QUALITY-/181089456177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a29c5d031) one?
My first mandolin was an early 1980's Kentucky KM-180S just like this one in the Classifieds (http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/64471) . With a good setup tailored to your playing style these can be excellent starter instruments that are leagues above the Rogue you mentioned.
Just to clarify, I'm not exactly looking for the best value in a starter mandolin at that price range. I'm looking for the best value in a quirky, interesting flat-back at that price range. I'm already hooked on playing and a want something fun, not necessarily high quality. As far as I got with a Rogue, I don't feel like quality is my biggest concern right now.
brunello97
Mar-20-2013, 5:45pm
I know I'm not being exactly reasonable, but it's somewhat important to me to get a flat back. It's kind of like scroll envy, only not as expensive.
What about this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baron-MDL-25W-3-Mandolin-GREAT-QUALITY-/181089456177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a29c5d031) one?
Don't do it. Buying cheap and new is a fool's bargain in my view. You'll spend another 75-100$ easy for a set-up to get it to play properly.
Go with the Big Muddy. Used prices have stabilized. If you pay $325 for one, you can sell it for $325 when you are done. But you won't be done. It will last you forever if you so desire. These are the real deal.
If you want 'quirky and interesting' troll on ebay and look for Regal or L+H flat backs from the '20s--no later. You may get lucky. $200 ought to snag yourself something. They will be much better instruments than the LaBaron, or whatever, rich Corinthian leather notwithstanding.
Those are my dos centavos.
Mick
Ok, so I guess my final question is, if there were one flat back mandolin I could try to get in the $250 range, what would it be?
multidon
Mar-20-2013, 6:23pm
The short answer to your final question is there is no such thing as a decent quality flat back for under 250. You have been getting great advice here. The absolute lowest price you will pay for what you want is 350 for a used. Big Muddy or Mid Missouri like you've already been told. You could get a Chinese made Trinity College brand new for not too much more and it would be ok. Used Big Middy's are in high demand and sell quickly when they come up so you have to watch the classifiers and be ready to pounce. Bulldog flat tops are even more rare but worth the 400 or so they bring. Gypsy Crystal Forest. And Redline Traveler are other brands to watch out for. Believe me I understand the need to economize but there is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish. If you waste money on that eBay mandolin shaped object you provided the link for I predict you will regret it in time especially when there are so many good choices for not too much more.
Sorry, Levi, I should have read the thread more closely! You clearly stated specifically what you were looking for in your original post.
The short answer to your final question is there is no such thing as a decent quality flat back for under 250. You have been getting great advice here. The absolute lowest price you will pay for what you want is 350 for a used. Big Muddy or Mid Missouri like you've already been told. You could get a Chinese made Trinity College brand new for not too much more and it would be ok. Used Big Middy's are in high demand and sell quickly when they come up so you have to watch the classifiers and be ready to pounce. Bulldog flat tops are even more rare but worth the 400 or so they bring. Gypsy Crystal Forest. And Redline Traveler are other brands to watch out for. Believe me I understand the need to economize but there is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish. If you waste money on that eBay mandolin shaped object you provided the link for I predict you will regret it in time especially when there are so many good choices for not too much more.
I actually was working on a deal for a Crystal Forest that was in the classifieds. I haven't heard from the guy in a while, and the ad is gone. Not much hope there.
I agree that the advice given here has been valuable, but I'm just looking to get the most for my money, not necessarily an instrument of high quality. I just want something to be able to learn to play at a decent level on, with my small budget. But for some reason I'm too stubborn to abandon my lust for flatbacks. (The Regal I mentioned is an exception)
Based on my experience with low-end offerings like that, the one you are looking at is likely not playable.
Based on my experience with low-end offerings like that, the one you are looking at is likely not playable.
How is it possible that it costs four times as much as my Rogue, yet isn't playable?
How is it possible that it costs four times as much as my Rogue, yet isn't playable?
I don't want to say anything about specific vendors. Suffice it to say I tried an unbranded flat top mandolin in the $200 price range from a source you referenced. It could would not hold its tuning, warped fret board, unfix-able intonation, poor sound quality. I am not an instrument snob, but this was unmusical.....possibly suitable as a wall decoration. It was not the specific model you are showing, so who knows, your mileage could vary. You can take my assessment with a grain of salt, but just trying to be helpful by saying "buyer beware".
I don't want to say anything about specific vendors. Suffice it to say I tried an unbranded flat top mandolin in the $200 price range from a source you referenced. It could would not hold its tuning, warped fret board, unfix-able intonation, poor sound quality. I am not an instrument snob, but this was unmusical.....possibly suitable as a wall decoration. It was not the specific model you are showing, so who knows, your mileage could vary. You can take my assessment with a grain of salt, but just trying to be helpful by saying "buyer beware".
I find some sense of safety in the return policy
brunello97
Mar-20-2013, 8:44pm
Like George Clinton said "If you fake the funk, your nose will fall off."
At some point, bro', you are going to be on your own with your decision. Over-thinking it in advance will do you limited good. One last go: don't by some new POS mandolin in the $200 price range. Go lower or go higher. Or go Bruno:
Bruno (http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Vernon-Vintage-Bruno-Mandolin-Nice-Shape-with-Orig-Case-/370781678044?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56544f69dc)
Ur-Kay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Mandolin-with-Case-String-Musical-Instrument-Vintage-Mandolin-with-Case-/150981589380?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2327343984)
Mick
Like George Clinton said "If you fake the funk, your nose will fall off."
At some point, bro', you are going to be on your own with your decision. Over-thinking it in advance will do you limited good. One last go: don't by some new POS mandolin in the $200 price range. Go lower or go higher. Or go Bruno:
Bruno (http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Vernon-Vintage-Bruno-Mandolin-Nice-Shape-with-Orig-Case-/370781678044?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56544f69dc)
Ur-Kay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Mandolin-with-Case-String-Musical-Instrument-Vintage-Mandolin-with-Case-/150981589380?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2327343984)
Mick
What I'm taking from all of this is that I should expand my budget somehow and go vintage. I saw that Vernon, and I thought it looked too good to be true. It's certainly a great price, but it'll undoubtedly increase. Should I go for it?
Jim Garber
Mar-20-2013, 9:32pm
I know I'm not being exactly reasonable, but it's somewhat important to me to get a flat back. It's kind of like scroll envy, only not as expensive.
What about this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baron-MDL-25W-3-Mandolin-GREAT-QUALITY-/181089456177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a29c5d031) one?
I think there are quite a few of those under various names, the most common being something like Sojing. I have a feeling they are not even worth what you will pay for them.
One other possibility if you are handy, StewMac Campfire kit (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Kits/Mandolin_Kits/Campfire_Mandolin_Kit.html). You still have to buy some parts with it but you can get a nice flatback, if you know what you are doing.
Upon looking some more, I found many that were identical, some with no brand. No dice there.
At one point I planned on doing that kit. It's a definite possibility as I love stuff like that and also army/navy style.
multidon
Mar-20-2013, 10:21pm
I built a Campfire kit and its a good introduction to building. I made a few mistakes but still got a serviceable instrument out of it. It serves me quite well as a beach travel and foul weather mandolin. You can read the construction manual for free on the Stew Mac Web site. Highly recommended so that you can see if you have all the tools and skills necessary. I put golden age tuners and a clamshell tailpiece on mine. You can go cheaply with the economy tuners but better tuners are worth it.
Gregory Tidwell
Mar-20-2013, 10:26pm
I know I'm not being exactly reasonable, but it's somewhat important to me to get a flat back. It's kind of like scroll envy, only not as expensive.
What about this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baron-MDL-25W-3-Mandolin-GREAT-QUALITY-/181089456177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a29c5d031) one?
I've had one of those for years. It's an import with a different label in it. Can't remember what mine is called; it's been hanging in my garage since I bought a better instrument. I paid $89 for mine ten years ago. Wasn't a very good decision. Several frets were high, and it sounds really flat. Actually, mine is a mandola, but probably six-of-one, half-dozen-the-other.
MikeEdgerton
Mar-21-2013, 7:44am
I know I'm not being exactly reasonable, but it's somewhat important to me to get a flat back. It's kind of like scroll envy, only not as expensive.
What about this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baron-MDL-25W-3-Mandolin-GREAT-QUALITY-/181089456177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a29c5d031) one?
I've seen a few of those, they have been on eBay for years with different brand names on them, don't do it.
MikeEdgerton
Mar-21-2013, 7:58am
It sounds like the Savanna SA-125 (http://www.savannahacoustic.com/sa125.html) would have been something that would fit your needs. Here's (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?68489-New-solid-top-Army-Navy-model-from-Savannah) an old thread about them. The problem is, I don't know if they are still available. Inexpensive flat back that could be tweaked.
belbein
Mar-21-2013, 8:11am
Levi: I have a couple of ideas for yuo. Check your private messages. (Don't worry, I'm not selling anything.)
Jim Garber
Mar-21-2013, 8:29am
I find some sense of safety in the return policy
That is fine for the most part but remember you are responsible for return shipping. That alone can eat into you budget.
What I'm taking from all of this is that I should expand my budget somehow and go vintage. I saw that Vernon, and I thought it looked too good to be true. It's certainly a great price, but it'll undoubtedly increase. Should I go for it?
I would say, expand your budget but not necessarily go vintage unless you know what you are doing and/or get something that does not need further luthier work (or can do it yourself or budget for it).
You are in Michigan -- I know it is a big state but are you within reasonable driving distance from Elderly in East Lansing? I would just spend a solid afternoon there and they will set you up with what you need.
You are getting some expert opinions here including direct experience with mandolins you are considering. Take these opinions seriously.
You don't have to spend a fortune but if you are limited in funds you have to take into account that new flattop instruments are less common but vintage ones often have hidden costs in set up or other issues. And bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them.
allenhopkins
Mar-21-2013, 1:01pm
Lark In the Morning instruments are almost invariably imported from Europe, Asia, or Latin America. My experience with them (limited) has been that they're decent quality, but perhaps a bit higher-priced than other sources. The Guitar Center one is evidently used, and right now LITM is selling a very similar one for $215 here, (http://larkinam.com/Mandolins.html) all solid woods. So the $199 GC price is no big bargain.
Might make sense to look for a used Flatiron Cadet, which was their bare-bones "pancake" mandolin. Not many around, but one went for $290 on eBay fairly recently (link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLATIRON-CADET-MANDOLIN-ARMY-NAVY-w-CASE-/130862073240?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e77fcc598&ssPageName=RSS:B:SHOP:US:101)), with a case. Those Flatiron pancakes were amazing instruments for the price and their design simplicity, but their prices keep rising, since they're no longer made. Elderly's trying to get $550 for a Cadet here. (http://www.gbase.com/gear/flatiron-cadet-1995)
The Regal "reverse scroll" is an interesting option, if it's in good condition. I'm a big fan of Regal instruments -- sturdy, solid woods, no-frills -- but a lot can happen to a mandolin in 75 years.
Tom Haywood
Mar-21-2013, 2:06pm
I sure would hate to change the strings in that slotted head stock.
I've seen a few of those, they have been on eBay for years with different brand names on them, don't do it.
Remarkably, the same exact one is in octave mandolin form on Lark in the Morning.
The plot thickens...
Well, I guess it isn't exact then...
It's an antique store, so they have little clue what the value is.
Hey..I'm an Antique dealer and believe me most all of us know what stuff is worth and what we can sell something for. :mandosmiley:
Hey..I'm an Antique dealer and believe me most all of us know what stuff is worth and what we can sell something for. :mandosmiley:
I didn't meant to blatantly insult all antique dealers, but that's what I did. I'm sorry.
My local antique stores are ridiculous though, when it comes to instruments.
And what I really meant to say is that they're selling like a cool old antique for decoration, when I see it as a low end instrument.
"Great tone and playability.
It is a solid wood top.
Let me know if you have more questions.
Dan, "
This is what Guitar Center has to say. It's hard to trust the seller, but I doubt he'll see any profit if it's sold, so...
Maybe it's not an Antique Store but more of a collectors, co-op situation? Anyhoo...if ya like it buy it!
Maybe it's not an Antique Store but more of a collectors, co-op situation? Anyhoo...if ya like it buy it!
That's probably it. It's got separate booths.
multidon
Mar-21-2013, 7:27pm
Levi you should check out the Redline Traveller that just popped up in the Cafe classifieds. Looks right up your alley. High quality Army Navy style.
Levi you should check out the Redline Traveller that just popped up in the Cafe classifieds. Looks right up your alley. High quality Army Navy style.
Thanks for the heads up, will check it out, but I'm more interested in that Bruno "The Vernon" on ebay :mandosmiley:
Hey Levi, where are you at in Michigan? If you could make it over to Eldery Instruments in Lansing, it would be well worth it.
Hey Levi, where are you at in Michigan? If you could make it over to Eldery Instruments in Lansing, it would be well worth it.
I'm in the very southwest, according to google I'm about 1 hour and 51 minutes from the city of Lansing. It's not a ridiculous idea, but no one likes going to Lansing.
Miked
Mar-21-2013, 10:15pm
You'll change your feelings about Lansing after visiting Elderly. People travel thousands of miles to visit Elderly.
Jim Garber
Mar-22-2013, 8:47am
I have heard that these Redline Travelers (http://redlineresophonics.com/mandolins/traveler) are quite nice and would be worth the money. If you can swing the price, I would go for this one (http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/64599) in the classifieds.
You'll change your feelings about Lansing after visiting Elderly. People travel thousands of miles to visit Elderly.
I'll probably have to check it out. I've only heard great things. I'm interested in that "Princess" mandolin. It looks like a Stromberg-Voisinet
Jim Garber
Mar-22-2013, 3:34pm
I'll probably have to check it out. I've only heard great things. I'm interested in that "Princess" mandolin. It looks like a Stromberg-Voisinet
Princess Mandolin (http://elderly.com/vintage/names/princess-professional-mandolin-%281920%27s%29--90U-6254.htm). That is what the description says and likely that is what it is. But read the not-so-fine print...
PRINCESS PROFESSIONAL MANDOLIN (1920's)
condition abbreviations VGC+ except needs some work (dress frets, reset loose neck, setup, etc. - sold AS-IS), natural finish on bent spruce top, laminated birch back and sides, Venetian 2-point body shape, bound oval soundhole, w-b-bound top, white-bound back, 10-fret maple neck, gold sparkle plastic fretboard with dot inlays, 20 frets, traditionally shaped peghead with recessed tuners and metal coverplate (back of neck has been refinished), gold sparkle plastic pickguard, clamshell tailpiece, appears to be made by Stromberg-Voisinet who was the predecessor to Kay, 1-1/4" nut width, ~13-1/8" scale, with recent oversize SSC (black lining)
Can you do that work yourself? Have you done any neck resets? Otherwise you are talking about $200 from a competent luthier.
Kevin Stevens
Mar-22-2013, 3:43pm
That Vernon is pretty cool looking. If you can get it for the right price and take it somewhere to get it checked out ans set up it might be worth it.
Princess Mandolin (http://elderly.com/vintage/names/princess-professional-mandolin-%281920%27s%29--90U-6254.htm). That is what the description says and likely that is what it is. But read the not-so-fine print...
Can you do that work yourself? Have you done any neck resets? Otherwise you are talking about $200 from a competent luthier.
I read it, but I'm not really interested in buying it, with comparable instruments available for half that. I just thought it'd be neat to look at. :whistling:
Jim Garber
Mar-22-2013, 3:52pm
I read it, but I'm not really interested in buying it, with comparable instruments available for half that. I just thought it'd be neat to look at. :whistling:
Much cheaper to do what I do: collect the jpegs.
Much cheaper to do what I do: collect the jpegs.
:)) Well I'd like to have at least one I can play.
Here's (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?94044-Birdseye-maple-mandolin) an interesting find
Jim Garber
Mar-22-2013, 4:34pm
:)) Well I'd like to have at least one I can play.
Here's (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?94044-Birdseye-maple-mandolin) an interesting find
Well, good luck on your search. Let us know if and when you actually find something.
Well, good luck on your search. Let us know if and when you actually find something.
Alright, thanks for the help.