Humidity & Temperature

[MandoTyro]

What is the best Humidity & Temperature ranges for storing a mandolin?

I will be hanging it up on a wall and was wondering....

[shortymack]

40-50% RH, temp in the mid 70's (F) is optimum.

[allenhopkins]

...I will be hanging it up on a wall and was wondering....

Advise against that. You have less control over the instrument's environment than if it's cased, and there are more risks for damage if it's left out. You can read a thread every so often, concerning a mandolin that's been damaged by accidental contact, dropping, being left where a friend/kid/pet had access, etc. etc.

While it is nice to be able to just pick up your mandolin and play, without the 30 seconds or so of taking it out of its case, instruments aren't really "decor." And it's a lot easier to keep an instrument properly humidified in its case, than to control the environment of an entire room, or an entire residence.

[oldwest]

Advise against that. You have less control over the instrument's environment than if it's cased, and there are more risks for damage if it's left out. You can read a thread every so often, concerning a mandolin that's been damaged by accidental contact, dropping, being left where a friend/kid/pet had access, etc. etc.

While it is nice to be able to just pick up your mandolin and play, without the 30 seconds or so of taking it out of its case, instruments aren't really "decor." And it's a lot easier to keep an instrument properly humidified in its case, than to control the environment of an entire room, or an entire residence.

I completely agree that leaving an instrument in its case is ideal, and you have listed all the good reasons why. Using instruments as decor is, I also agree, a bad reason to hang them.

But the psychological effect of having to get the case out and open it up is not negligible. Jack Tuttle strongly recommends, for instance, that if you have kids learning to play, it is essential to always have the instruments out of their cases. (And to listen to his kids play is to have good reason to take his advice seriously.) If a kid picks up a guitar or mandolin intending to pick or strum for a few minutes, it is better than nothing, and those few minutes can turn into hours. And most of us are basically big kids in that regard. All of those spontaneous practice sessions add up over time.

Our kids are now grown and gone, so I have the luxury of having plenty of room -- I have a music room where I can have my cases sitting out flat, closed but unlocked, and I can leave those little humidifiers in them. As you say, it is far easier to control humidity in a case. In spite of our very dry climate, my instruments stay remarkably well in tune when I leave them in their cases. It is just as fast and easy for me to get my instruments out of their cases as it would be to take them off the wall. But if I didn’t have that space, I think I’d hang my instruments and invest in a room humidifier, just so it would be easier to get them out to pick or strum for a few minutes whenever I get the chance.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'd personally advise that all instruments made from materials that can be affected by temp./ humidity be stored in their cases - unless you have total control over their environment. With the current changes to the world's climate,we are experiencing some bizzare weather patterns from month to month all over the world. A sudden swing to a higher than normal seasonal temp. / humidity,something that's suddenly 'there',& your instrument could be adversely affected. That, plus as Allen says, the higher possibility of damage, makes keeping an instrument in it's case very sensible,
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

Advise against that.

+1
One hazard has not been mentioned yet: the wall itself. Whatever your room climate be, a wall may be different (colder, for instance) and drive both convective and radiative heat transport near the back of your mandolin. A fellow musician once told the story of this mandolin hanging from a nail in the wall of his bedroom; one night, he awoke to the sound of a loud bang; in the morning, he found that the back of the mandolin had split over its whole length.

Now be nice to your mandolin and put it to sleep in its own bed.

[MandoTyro]

Wow! Fantastic information.

My setting, is that it would be in my 'office' hanging on a wall that is considered an outside wall. The room is not a threat in terms of children or pets. So, some of the concerns seems to apply.

My difficulty lies in having enough room for the cases. My thought was that the cases should be laid flat (less threat of injury) and that seems to take a lot of space.

I bought a hook.... but now I am just not sure I will use it after reading these posts.

[Tobin]

It seems to me that the best compromise here would be a display case with a glass front, where the instrument could be stored in a climate-controlled environment but still be "on display". It would be a fairly simple project to buy an old glass-front cabinet at a flea market and convert it by installing seals at the doors and a humidifier inside. I've seen mention of it in other threads, and it's a pretty cool idea. Sort of like a big humidor for instruments. Not only will it keep them at the proper humidity, but will help regulate temperature (which is in a constant state of flux in your house as you open exterior doors). And as an added bonus, they won't get dusty like they will hanging on the wall.

I may end up doing something similar myself one day.

[oldwest]

The "instrument humidor" is a very cool idea. Also, I agree that there is extra risk with an outside wall compared to an internal one -- more flux in temp and humidity.

Another option is instrument floor stands, which take up less room than a case lying flat. But only if room temp and humidity are controlled.

I first learned the power of humidity and temp changes years ago. I had finally rewarded myself with a "real" piano -- a nice midsized grand. I was having it tuned professionally 4 times a year and still was unhappy with the amount of time that its tuning wasn't quite right.

The piano tech finally recommended that I invest in a device that mounts under the soundboard and keeps its temp and humidity constant. I now only have to have it tuned once a year-- and even then I am doing it in part to give the guy some business. I could probably go longer. And anything that affects tuning can't help but affect the condition of the instrument.

That said, make sure that you dont let hauling cases in and out of a closet interfere with your playing lots!

[Tobin]

I first learned the power of humidity and temp changes years ago. I had finally rewarded myself with a "real" piano -- a nice midsized grand. I was having it tuned professionally 4 times a year and still was unhappy with the amount of time that its tuning wasn't quite right.

The piano tech finally recommended that I invest in a device that mounts under the soundboard and keeps its temp and humidity constant. I now only have to have it tuned once a year-- and even then I am doing it in part to give the guy some business. I could probably go longer. And anything that affects tuning can't help but affect the condition of the instrument.
Do you have any links to such a product that I can look at for additional info? Last year I inherited my mother's 1920s-era Wurlitzer baby grand piano; it's been in my family for 4 generations. It needs a serious cleaning inside, and I'm sure it hasn't been tuned in decades. But my biggest concern is that I have no way of controlling the humidity level in my living room. And under-the-soundboard device may be just what I'm looking for.

[stevedenver]

i live in Colorado, at times dry, but occasionally very humid.
I'm in the keep it in the case camp.

Why?
The case buffers changes in temp and humidty-ie they are slower.
This may well make the difference in problems.

and
I also do not use a humidifier. I have 4 high end dreds, one mando, and a pretty high end archtop, and many electrics.

By using the case, your instrument MAY, over a year or two, acclimate , provided of course that the wood was well and properly seasoned prior to the build. It is my experience that after about 2 years, most wood related issues will have arisen. The idea is to wean artificial humidity and allow the instrument to simply be in its environment without help.

I have purchased instruments from far more moist climates, and I have sucessessfully used this approach to help them adjust to Colorado. I understand too that things can be too dry, but after forty years with a couple of my insturments, there have been no illl affects. Perhaps im just ucky, but i speak from exeperience.

And the last bit, I feel that it is a discipline to use the case. It is my rule, more or less, to either have the insturment in my hands or in the case. I am always fearful of a Les Paul, a D'Aquisto clone, or my F sliding and breaking a headstock, scroll point, etc. Of course using the case can also result in dings from hardware etc, but I think this is far less likely.

And theres another aspect.and its relevant in terms of passing eyes. While a cases is certainly attractive interms of theft, using the case also means you can stash it out of sight. Hanging it on the wall, is often more visible and inviting. I understand the foibles of this line of thought, but it bears consideration in some circumstances. The other being, I don't like folks to feel they are free to pick up my instruments without my first offering them. Again, not often an issue, but it might be. Theres nothing like having someone pick up your favorite and having sharp items that hit the finish that you are mindful about.

[Bob Clark]

The piano tech finally recommended that I invest in a device that mounts under the soundboard and keeps its temp and humidity constant.

I'd like to offer a cautionary tale on these under-the-soundboard piano humidifiers, along with a solution. A number of years ago, when I had my first good grand piano, I had my piano technician install one of these units. It worked well for a while, but at some point, the control device stopped working and kept the unit in the 'humidify' mode regardless of ambient humidity. I was unaware of the problem until it had over-humidified the piano to the point that there was a real forest of mold growing under the soundboard. As you can imagine, this was a real problem.

When I replaced that piano, I installed a build-in steam humidifier in my house. This is not an evaporative humidifier, which in my experience don't work very well, but an actual steam unit that is ducted, draws air in on one side, adds a considerable amount of steam and blows the air out the other end. It is permanently installed in the basement with ducts through the floor. The unit I bought is made by Skuttle, but I am sure there are other manufacturers as well. This unit can be installed as part of a forced hot air system, if that's what you have. Mine is independent because I have hydronic heat (very stable temperature, too).

This steam system maintains an incredibly stable humidity level. I monitor it with a digital meter and the humidity never wavers more than one percent from the 42% I have it set at. I have had it for a number of years now and am very satisfied. Having the humidity maintained in this way is good for my piano and my mandolins. I keep my mandolins in their cases for their protection from other possible hazards, but humidity fluctuation is not an issue.

I'll take a picture of this unit when I have a chance and post it here so you can see what I am talking about. They are not cheap, but are certainly worth it if you have valuable instruments. By the way, NFI.

Bob

[Bob Clark]

99605
Here's the steam humidifier (described in my previous post). It is suspended from the floor joists by angle iron. You can see the duct entering on your right, and exiting on your left. I have decorative brass floor registers where these ducts enter the floor of the room above.

The small box on the wall below the steam humidifier is a unit that flushes it out twice a day. This is an option, but if you install one of these units, you want one of these. I also take it apart and clean it out when I shut it off in the spring.

The only thing not shown is an in-line filter within the water line leading into the humidifier.

As I stated above, this holds the humidity in the whole house very stable.

Bob

[Timothy S]

Do you have any links to such a product that I can look at for additional info? Last year I inherited my mother's 1920s-era Wurlitzer baby grand piano; it's been in my family for 4 generations. It needs a serious cleaning inside, and I'm sure it hasn't been tuned in decades. But my biggest concern is that I have no way of controlling the humidity level in my living room. And under-the-soundboard device may be just what I'm looking for.
I think what he's talking about is the Dampp-Chaser system for pianos. I have one installed on my August Forster grand, but like Bob Clark has mentioned, I'm seeing issues with the sensors. It kept telling me that there was water in the tanks, and when I hadn't filled in the normal amount of time I checked and found that the tanks were completely empty. I've since been relying more heavily on room humidifiers for the piano and case humidifiers for the guitars and mandolin.

[Barry Platnick]

Thanks Bob

[bluemtgrass]

Advise against that. You have less control over the instrument's environment than if it's cased, and there are more risks for damage if it's left out. You can read a thread every so often, concerning a mandolin that's been damaged by accidental contact, dropping, being left where a friend/kid/pet had access, etc. etc.

While it is nice to be able to just pick up your mandolin and play, without the 30 seconds or so of taking it out of its case, instruments aren't really "decor." And it's a lot easier to keep an instrument properly humidified in its case, than to control the environment of an entire room, or an entire residence.


Well..... I agree, you can't play a cased instrument :whistling: Personally, I kinda like the way the two mandolins I have look hanging as decor over the piano. I grab one several times a day and doodle a bit for a few minutes then hang it up again. On the other hand, my cased guitars sit dutifully against a wall in the bedroom getting much less attention. So I guess it depends on whether its a mandolin you want to play or keep purty. I do concede of course if its an expensive ( in the eye of the beholder ) mandolin you may want to case it. But by all means get something to hang on the wall so you can rip off a couple notes of Rawhide when the mood hits you. :grin:

** as a side note I started playing my expensive guitar at jams and get togethers instead of playing my D-41 copy. If Willie's guitar is worth a million with a hole in it, who would care if mine shows a bit of character along the way ? Not talking about being reckless or stupid just enjoying the fruits of your labor. But to each his own.. :mandosmiley:

[MandoTyro]

After buying a single hanger... and then reading the many comments... I expect to leave the mandolin in the case (a cheap case)...

Thanks for all the fantastic input!

[oldwest]

Do you have any links to such a product that I can look at for additional info? Last year I inherited my mother's 1920s-era Wurlitzer baby grand piano; it's been in my family for 4 generations. It needs a serious cleaning inside, and I'm sure it hasn't been tuned in decades. But my biggest concern is that I have no way of controlling the humidity level in my living room. And under-the-soundboard device may be just what I'm looking for.

As another poster mentioned, it is the Dampp-Chaser system -- a Google search will provide you with lots of information. I don't think you can buy and install a system yourself -- it has to be done through a licensed dealer.

And as another poster mentioned, it is not something you can just buy and forget about. The water needs to be refilled regularly (there is a yellow light when it is getting low and a red one when you are out), and you need to use distilled or filtered water to which a capful of a special solution is added. The pads need to be changed regularly, which your piano technician can do, or you can order the pads on Amazon and replace them yourself. My son is a mechanical whiz, so he helps me do it. The device is supposed to turn itself off if the water runs out, but as another poster noted, anything mechanical can break down or malfunction.

We live in a beautiful and historic, but small, home. There was literally only one place in the entire house where a grand piano would at all work from both a practical and aesthetic point of view, but it is about the worst place that could be chosen to put a piano from a temp and humidity control standpoint. It is right in front of an old floor to ceiling arched front window, and behind it is one of the hot water heating registers. It was either not have a piano like that, or put it there, so we put it there. The visual effect is stunning, but as I said, it was a tuning nightmare until I had the Dampp-Chaser system installed. It worked like magic, and you'd think it was in a completely temperature and humidity controlled room in a modern home without old-house draftiness and so forth.

It may not be for everyone, there are certainly alternatives (the system described by Bob Clark sounds like an amazing solution to safely protect every instrument, etc. in an entire house), and things can go wrong with it. But I've had years of trouble-free performance and couldn't be happier with the solution it offered to our particular situation.