F4 or f5 mandolin

[veljko-lemonade]

Hi to all!
I wanted to upgrade my Chinese made mandolin with something a bit better and the Eastman 315 f style seamed great for my price range- but then I heard that the f4 mandolins have a deeper more mellow tone and I prefer that sound to the high dry sound. Visually I love the f5 look.. Is the difference in the tone noticable and if so what f4 mandolin do u recommend in this price range? P.s. there are no bluegrass f style mandolins to try in Croatia, so I am forced to buy online...

[Mandobart]

Here's my .02 worth: I prefer the sound of an oval hole over f-hole. In general, I find a warmer, mellower tone with much more sustain on oval hole vs f-hole. I play some bluegrass, but a lot of other genres as well (blues, jazz, gypsy, klezmer, folk, etc.). My recommendation is still Sonny Morris (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?groupid=174) for a great deal; if you want a great sounding, playable mandolin without all the extra frills check him out.

[almeriastrings]

What is your price range, in Euros?

[Pete Jenner]

Forget looks - it's all about sound. That's ultimately what keeps you playing.

[Gary Hedrick]

and playability......hard to make good noise when the fretting of the beast is such a pain.

[keebler]

I'm with MandoBart on this one.. although f5's are the bluegrass standard, I love the sound of an oval much better..

then again, I don't play bluegrass all that much either.. jazz, blues, folk..

[veljko-lemonade]

Hi guys!
thx a bunch for the replies!
i myselfe play a lot of genres and enjoy jazz, swing, folk-
playability is what i hope the new mandoline will bring.
my budget is about 700-800 $ + shipment (which ammounts to extra 100$ unfortunatly..)

[JEStanek]

Trevor at TAMCO (http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/index.php/mandolin-luithers.html) might be able to help you get an Eastman (he has several in stock). I would get a nice a sounding/playing one as you can afford. The benefit of buying from TAMCO is he's in the EU anyway and that ought to save you shipping hassles of buying from the USA. There's a Eastman 504 in his shop for EU535. He might be able to get one of the F4 style 314, 514, 614, 814 for you.

Jamie

[f5loar]

Unless you are Paul Williams (when he was with Jimmy Martin), Curly Secklor(when he was with Flatt&Scruggs), Everette Lilly in his early days, Red Rector or Jethro Burns showing up at a bluegrass jam a round hole won't get you far. You got to think the majority of bluegrass pickers prefer the f hole sound rather it be the F5 or A5 styles. I like Eastman but the higher up you can go the better. I would hold off until you can get up to the 515 or 615 range. F style seems suited better for jazz and swing too.

[allenhopkins]

Thomann in Germany, major on-line seller, has Loar and other mandolins (http://www.thomann.de/gb/mandolins.html) in their inventory. (Note: by "Loar" I do not mean a Lloyd Loar Gibson F-5, but the current line of Asian-built instruments.)

You will find dozens of discussions of Loar mandolin models in previous Cafe threads. I have no idea if Thomann does an adequate shop set-up, or any shop set-up, so you may want to save out a bit of money to have a pro set-up done. (Assuming you can find a Croatian instrument shop that can do it.) Alternatively, Cafe member Rob Meldrum provides other members with an e-book guide to set-up, which others have found useful.

[keebler]

do you mean "The Loar" or "Lloyd Loar" or just "Loar" I'm confused!?!?! :))

I personally would like to see more ovals joined at the 14th+ fret..

[allenhopkins]

do you mean "The Loar" or "Lloyd Loar" or just "Loar" I'm confused)...

No, you're not.

I call 'em "Loar" mandolins. They say "The Loar" on the headstock, but that's just hommage or copying or whatever of the old Gibson practice, recently revived, of labeling their products as "The Gibson." I think G's only doing it for mandolins now, but their '20's guitars and banjos also were labeled "The Gibson."

So I don't call them "The Loar" mandolins. Yes, it's confusing, but so is the Asian-mediocre-Flatiron/Epiphone/etc. vs. the "original" US-made Flatiron/Epiphone/etc. Confusion in the marketplace is usually someone's strategic ally, IMHO.

[OldSausage]

I call 'em Flurgle-murgle-durgle.

[Spruce]

I personally would like to see more ovals joined at the 14th+ fret..

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/Schneider/P1000738.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/Schneider/P1000737.jpg

[keebler]

No, you're not.

I call 'em "Loar" mandolins. They say "The Loar" on the headstock, but that's just hommage or copying or whatever of the old Gibson practice, recently revived, of labeling their products as "The Gibson." I think G's only doing it for mandolins now, but their '20's guitars and banjos also were labeled "The Gibson."

So I don't call them "The Loar" mandolins. Yes, it's confusing, but so is the Asian-mediocre-Flatiron/Epiphone/etc. vs. the "original" US-made Flatiron/Epiphone/etc. Confusion in the marketplace is usually someone's strategic ally, IMHO.

WHOAHHHHHHHHahaha there nellie, just a joke..

and yes that Schneider oval is a beaut, but a little out of my price range.. I'm looking for something a little more econo $800-$1500 range (used). The breedloves were sort of along the lines I'm looking at.. I did see the Weber Vintage F too.. that is prob the highest range I could get at

[JEStanek]

Collings MTO is a hybrid neck oval (joins at 14 fret).

Jamie

[mandobassman]

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/Schneider/P1000738.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/Schneider/P1000737.jpg

Wow!!! That is a beauty!

[JeffD]

The F hole F style mandolin is what is expected in bluegrass. Prized for its focus percussive chop and precise clarity in melody.

But I would say get what you want.

And take it to a bluegrass jam if you want.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I love oval hole mandolins.I deeply regret having topart with my Weber "A" style 'Beartooth',but a warped neck is a warped neck & i was fortunate enough to part-ex it for my Lebeda "Special". The Beartooth was easily the loudest mandolin i've played to date & it had a strong,deep,woody tone.I can honestly say that if i had the cash,i'd be going after this beauty at TAMCO in the UK,
Ivan
9941599416

[veljko-lemonade]

Eastman md514 f style oval hole looks great to me? What do u guys think? It's 1000$ so a bit over my budget, but it seems really hard to find a good f style with oval hole

[almeriastrings]

99417

99418

99419

One of ours... made by Mark Bluett. $6,000 however... so it should be nice.

http://zbluett.wix.com/bluettbrosviolins#!instruments/vstc2=mandolins

Yes. The MD514's are a good choice. Not a lot of options out there in that price range. One good value instrument is this one:

http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/products/GR3126/Ashbury-AM370-Mandolin/

I have only seen one, but it was certainly good for the money.

As f5Loar says, these are not ideal in a jam situation, but for solo stuff, or recording, they have a nice sound. Different than an F5, certainly... the Bluett above is my wife's, and she really likes it. Then, she plays more old-time and Celtic than straight bluegrass.

I would not import from the US in this price range, as a large proportion of your money will be eaten by shipping and import taxes. There are a number of suppliers in the EU who stock them (Thomann do ZERO setup).

[veljko-lemonade]

Hi to all!
thx for all the help!

I went to the acoustic music store web site and made inquires about the following mandolins
Eastman 614 F style oval hole
Ratliff R4
Sawchyn RO-2

they all look great and i hope sound great :)

[veljko-lemonade]

hI Almeriastrings!
Thx for your pick!
the mandolin looks great and is in my price range.
I am not a jam player and play mostly solo or with just a guitar backup, trumpet and bass, so i think the oval hole is more suited for me and my style.

[paul dirac]

Not to hijack, but as a lover of the F4 hybrid design, as an admirer of Bruce's Schneider, Weber's Custom Vintage F, and particularly the 2 Monte hybrids I've seen photos of, I wanted to reference the Harvey-built Gibson owned by a cafe member. (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?93614-What-s-up-at-Gibson-Mandolins&highlight=Gibson) I'm well aware that this is probably a long-standing custom option, and have been hanging on every new post on Jim's new Holst, but I'd not ever heard the story of Gibson's thoughts and attempt on this.

[matthew71]

For an F4 or an F5 in the 1000 dollar range, I can also recommend JBovier. Just bought a Tradition, which I love. I have a whole bunch of A style mandolins, but this is my first F style.

[Billy Packard]

HI Paul, thanks for your note. I have a good description of the Gibson F4 Hybrid Prototype #1 on my web-site on the page titled "The Mandolins". I was in Nashville in March of 2010 before the flood of that year. I visited the Gibson store/shop at the Opry-Mills Shopping center where I was treated to sampling the various top-tier models they had in stock. Not being a bluegrass guy, my polkas, waltzes and choros were gettin some attention from the folks there. Dave Harvey came out to visit and showed me his F4 Hybrid. He said he always wanted to build this mando and finally got the 'go ahead' from the Gibson management to build one. He went all out. The idea was to take it around to various indy shows and see how the pros liked it, then go into production with lower level models in the $5-6K range. At one point the Mandolin Store was advertising such a model as one they would have soon. Dave said Ricky Skaggs used it on one song on a cd from that year. The flood of Nashville pretty much wiped Gibson out and the production plan was abandoned. At this time I don't know of any future plans Gibson has.

Billy
billypackardmandolin.com

[veljko-lemonade]

what do u guys think of the Eastman-514-Mandolin-Oval-Hole ? im thinking the oval hole will give me a wider more mellow sound thats not as dry as the f hole?
and what do u think of this mandolin?
thx!

[mandroid]

I find the sound, reaches my ears more directly , on the oval hole.

Straighter sided V of the neck on my buddy's Eastman F5, would take getting used to,
having played rounder V and D necks for many years.

Eastman does make a quality instrument.

[jimmy powells]

I bought six Gibson F4s over the years because I LOVED the look and charisma of a pre 1930 Gibson F4 but I could never hear them in a session or even in a bluegrass 5 piece and it took me years to appreciate that. LOVED them at home but I came to the conclusion that F-holes do it everywhere and when you go out to play with others you usually take the instrument which will do the job. I've got a 1984 Flatiron F5 now after having a great Summit F200 custom (which I shouldn't have sold).
Having an F4 or A4 or similar to play with just acoustic guitar and maybe frailing banjo would work fine but if you get involved with sessions etc and can't get the sound through, you'll end up buying something else and that's a fact.

Having said all that, I never stop looking at the classifieds to see if there's a cheap F4 going because they are so appealing. Just traced a 1918 F2 with Handel tuners in the UK but he hasn't worked out a price yet, although the F4 is much better with the flamed maple and binding, inlay etc but prices gone through the roof now.

In my mind, it's got to be F-holes. I find virtually all carved top oval hole mandolins to be way behind F-hole mandolins.

that's my view after 40 years of handling and owning hundreds.

Jimmy Powells
Uk