View Full Version : Please help identify this old Bowlback!
3rdegree
Mar-06-2013, 5:19pm
Hi all, I'm new to the forum and apologize if there is a better method to this. I am having no luck on this new acquisition. I'm guessing it's a 1900's Jupiter or Montgomery Ward? No markings and the inside is covered in a black mesh. Thanks in advance for the info.
No name or numbers to go on, just some pictures. 993409934199342993439934499345
allenhopkins
Mar-07-2013, 12:15am
So why's this instrument in this other current thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?93540-Can-anyone-identify-this-Mandolin) in the "Information About Mandolins" forum?
That's a nice looking mando, I'm no help, just making a statement!
Jim Garber
Mar-07-2013, 10:33am
That is a strange one. Structurally I would say American from Chicago but the pickguard shape and colors look like Italian/Catania. Is that torch inlaid or painted or decal? Is the pickguard inlaid and is that celluloid and is the decoratiojn in that inlaid?
Jim Garber
Mar-07-2013, 10:34am
Much better pics in this thread. Maybe moderators can combine the two?
JeffD
Mar-07-2013, 10:49am
Beautiful.
That is a strange one. Structurally I would say American from Chicago but the pickguard shape and colors look like Italian/Catania. Is that torch inlaid or painted or decal? Is the pickguard inlaid and is that celluloid and is the decoratiojn in that inlaid?I would say the torch is a decal and I'm not certain but I think the pick guard is celluloid and both are inlaid. thanks Jim.
Jim Garber
Mar-07-2013, 2:35pm
Most of the American mandolins have symmetrical pickguards (except for the occasional side-mounted ones). This is a bit of a puzzle.
The owner thinks it might be a Lyon & Healy, sold by Montgomery Ward or Jupiter?
Jim Garber
Mar-07-2013, 3:11pm
Jupiter was a lowend L&H brand. It is possible that it was sold by MW.
P.D. Kirby
Mar-07-2013, 5:42pm
Even has the case, they are rarer than the Mandolins...
3rdegree
Mar-07-2013, 10:29pm
"So why's this instrument in the "Information About Mandolins" forum?"
Ahh, didn't know that. I contacted a local guy here in Vegas about helping me identify it. Obviously he posted it on here as well. I will contact him about the dual ads. I apologize but will leave mine up if the photos are better.
PlayerOf8
Mar-11-2013, 2:09pm
Walter Goss - Boston 1920s
PlayerOf8
Mar-11-2013, 2:10pm
It looks like Walter Goss- Boston
Jim Garber
Mar-11-2013, 2:20pm
Walter Goss - Boston 1920s
OK... how do you know? Do you have a similar one or have pics of one? Goss is listed in Mugwumps as Goss ??? -- no other info. However he is known as a violin maker so it is quite possible that he made this. OTOH he may have just sold it in his shop. The headstock shape is quite common for those built by Lyon & Healy and mya have been sold wholesale thru the related company Ditson in Boston.
Please do elaborate... Thanks!
Jim Garber
Mar-11-2013, 10:22pm
It looks like Walter Goss- Boston
I guess I have to reply to this duplicate thread as well...
OK... how do you know? Do you have a similar one or have pics of one? Goss is listed in Mugwumps as Goss ??? -- no other info. However he is known as a violin maker so it is quite possible that he made this. OTOH he may have just sold it in his shop. The headstock shape is quite common for those built by Lyon & Healy and mya have been sold wholesale thru the related company Ditson in Boston.
I did find a listing form Walter Solon Goss of Boston in Wenberg's book.
Please do elaborate... Thanks!
brunello97
Mar-11-2013, 10:46pm
.... The headstock shape is quite common for those built by Lyon & Healy and mya have been sold wholesale thru the related company Ditson in Boston.
Interesting looking tuners as well. I've seen many with a rounded middle lobe but fewer with the 'king's crown' type ends.
Asymmetrical pickguard looks way more European than American, though this is certainly a US made mandolin.
The headstock inlay is beautiful. Killer.
Mick
Jim Garber
Mar-12-2013, 8:00am
Best to post in this other thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?93539-Please-help-identify-this-old-Bowlback!) until moderator can combine (if possible).
Scott Tichenor
Mar-12-2013, 8:03am
Threads merged. Unnecessary to post multiple threads on same topic.
Jim Garber
Mar-12-2013, 6:50pm
It looks like Walter Goss- Boston
I found more info on Goss -- relevant stuff for non-violin folks bolded. This is from a thesis by Christine Merrick Ayars from about 1937 entitled "Contributions to the art of music in America by the music industries of Boston, 1640-1936 (1937) (http://archive.org/details/contributionstoa00ayar)":
Walter Solon Goss was another Boston master violin maker. He was born in 1853 at Dan vers, Massachusetts, and worked on violins from 1870 on. He established himself in Lynn, Massachusetts, in 1896. After that he worked for a total of about twelve years as expert and supervisor of repairing for the firms of Elias Howe and Oliver Ditson Company, having his own shop for a while between his employment by these firms. Around 1911 he established himself in Boston at 218 Tremont St., specializing in copies of Cremona instruments and fine repairing. He used to get about $250-$300 apiece for his instruments, 26 for he was one of the finest makers in the country. Later he had charge of the shop for the Musicians' Supply Company, and was with the Brown Music Store in Lynn when he died about 1925.
He seemed mostly to be a violinmaker and worked as a repairer for Howe and Ditson -- no real mention of his building mandolins or even inlaying floral patterns. That doesn't mean that he didn't do that... I am just not sure. Also there is no mention anywhere that he also built mandolins. Do you have a source that indicates that he also worked for Vega?
PlayerOf8
Mar-13-2013, 12:47pm
Jon Erikson and Walter Goss made several bowl back mandolins for the Vega Company in Boston. Jon Erikson is listed in the Wenberg as a Vega and Goss employee. I purchased Erikson's shop when he retired.
Jim Garber
Mar-13-2013, 1:53pm
Were there any mandolins by Erickson or Goss in that shop? Do you have any or have pics of them? I am just curious. Were they std Vegas or special ones? Did they have asymmetrical pickguards?
The only remotely similar ornamentation I can see that resembles the OP's mandolin is the pickguard inlays on higher-end Vega cylinderbacks.
I still would appreciate any more details of why you think the OP's mandolin was made by Goss.
Jim Garber
Mar-13-2013, 2:19pm
There is one part of Vega's production I have been very puzzled by which is some mandolins that are inlaid "Amati" on the pickguard. I own a flatback and attached is a bowlback which is mostly different from a style 3 Vega by the pickguard and by the way the bowl is constructed. The bowl is somewhat similar to the OP's.
BTW the tuner plate on this one is engraved "F.C. Martin" tho I am not sure this is the same Martin of Nazareth.
PlayerOf8
Mar-13-2013, 4:07pm
There were about fifty mandolins left in John's shop. Mostly partial instruments that were never meant to be finished (experiments) There were however, several very fine examples of John's work from back when he worked in Boston. In 1973 those instruments were not of any real value. I do recall some with the same inlaid flower on the headstock. I'll look for some photographs.
3rdegree
Mar-13-2013, 5:51pm
This is getting interesting now! I knew I got hooked on mandolin's recently for some reason... : )
Thank you all VERY much for the effort and information. I wouldn't have a clue how to determine any of this.
Jim Garber
Mar-13-2013, 9:17pm
Interesting... I just checked Wenberg and according to the listing for John Ericson, Wenberg says that he immigrated to the US in 1911 and apprenticed with Walter Goss in Boston for 2 years and then also worked for Vega until 1918 when he moved to Chicago. So it sounds like the mandolins you saw (or have?) were made by Ericson and not by Goss. In any case it would be great to see them. I don't know if this helps ID this mystery mandolin of the OP's but it is interesting nonetheless.