My Loar

[James5v]

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif

[JeffD]

That'll work.


Welcome.

[James5v]

Thanks, I am very new to Mandolin but having fun with it.

[ButchA]

Beautiful! That's what I want to get one of these days. I want to pick up a nice F body mandolin and maybe trade in my old Ibanez A body mandolin (if it's worth anything...)

[Glassweb]

i knew it was coming, but it's crazy to think that people are now referring to the mandolin brand known as "The Loar" as Loar mandolins. i have no doubt there are players out there now who own "The Loar" that don't even know what a Lloyd Loar F5 is. the name "Loar" has gone from being a legend to a brand. kinda sad 'tis... :(

[Mike Bunting]

i knew it was coming, but it's crazy to think that people are now referring to the mandolin brand known as "The Loar" as Loar mandolins. i have no doubt there are players out there now who own "The Loar" that don't even know what a Lloyd Loar F5 is. the name "Loar" has gone from being a legend to a brand. kinda sad 'tis... :(

Thanks for that post. I've been biting my tongue.

[Andrew B. Carlson]

And the irony of the word Lore as well....

[Bill Snyder]

When I saw the thread title I figured it was a The Loar mandolin but I also considered the fact that it would conjure up thoughts of a Gibson mandolin signed by the venerable Mr. Loar. I also considered the fact that 10 years ago I had no idea who Lloyd Loar was. I suspect that many if not most of the people purchasing a The Loar mandolin still don't know who he was. The only reason I know anything about him now is because of the Mandolin Cafe.

[dcoventry]

The Loar and A Loar.

It confuses almost no one; maybe .1% of people. It annoys maybe 1% of people, and 99% couldn't care less.

[Bill Snyder]

More like 99+ % of the people have no idea that Lloyd Loar ever lived and therefore The Loar and A Loar could very well be the same thing. After all a The Gibson and a Gibson can be the same thing.

[almeriastrings]

The Gibson and a Gibson are the same thing.....at least they're 'the genuine article'. There is a direct line of decent, if you will.

The use of a real person's name, someone no long around to give consent, someone who really did strive for the absolute maximum in quality on a line of 'value' imports, well....

I find it verging on disrespectful, that's all. You just have to wonder what his reaction would have been. I'm not claiming to know for sure, but I can guess.

[Glassweb]

The cat that got the copyright or whatever for use of the name "The Loar" is a genius... an absolutely brilliant marketing plan. He saw his play and took it... fantastic! Nothing wrong with those mandolins at all considering their price point. I just wish customers/owners would refer to them as "THE" Loar instead of "A" Loar. I guess I'll have to copyright "The Lloyd" for my mandolin line... ;)

[almeriastrings]

Discussed previously, with some interesting comment by Mr. Rich:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?26663-'the-loar'-mandolin

[houseworker]

Welcome to the cafe James! Don't let this lively discussion put you off returning, it's not aimed at you.

[Jim]

Nice looking mandolin, congrats

[justinhart]

I'll also say welcome. You'll find much good and wise knowledge here. Enjoy your new mandolin.

[Pete Jenner]

When I saw the thread title I figured it was a The Loar mandolin but I also considered the fact that it would conjure up thoughts of a Gibson mandolin signed by the venerable Mr. Loar. I also considered the fact that 10 years ago I had no idea who Lloyd Loar was. I suspect that many if not most of the people purchasing a The Loar mandolin still don't know who he was. The only reason I know anything about him now is because of the Mandolin Cafe.

Ditto Bill but I do think people get far too precious about the whole Loar/Gibson thing. It verges on cultism.

[James5v]

I did not mean to create such controversy. I have to say I am not familiar with Mr. Loar but I do like my Mandolin. I would also have to say from the discussion above that is was a smart move to obtain that name. I also have two Loar Guitars and I am very happy with both of them.

[f5loar]

There you go again. You got TWO Loar guitars? Two Loar signed 1924 L-5 Master Model Gibson guitars? Now that's saying something. Just kidding. If you don't know much about the famous Mr. Loar you should google his full name Lloyd Loar and read up on his long history with musical instruments especially the first Gibson F5 mandolin in which he had a big hand in developing in 1922.

[Pete Counter]

This was my very vocal objection when they first came out, I always saw it a cheap marketing stunt!

[shortymack]

Dog pile!!!!!

[mikbau]

I wonder how many new guitar players know who Les Paul is...or Leo Fender. Brands capitalize on known names all the time, it's the way of the world. (Of course, I say this having my "The Loar" on order...) Perhaps "A ''The Loar' " is the least offensive way to say it? ;o)

One might also look at it as having the brand out there might encourage folks to look him up and learn about him and his history with the instrument...did for me, anyway.

Michael

[Denny Gies]

James5v..........you have no idea how much fun is in store for you with that lovely mandolin. Good luck.

[keebler]

wait, aren't we on lloydloarmandolin.com ?

[Mike Bunting]

wait, aren't we on lloydloarmandolin.com ?

Seems we are mostly on The Loar Cafe.com

[nordian]

I don't want to contribute anything that could be taken as ill will. But I happen to own a "The Loar" LM-700. And yes, I am well aware of who Lloyd Loar was. I also know that my $1300 dollar mandolin is not a $175,000-$225,000 dollar Lloyd Loar built instrument. I do think most anybody here on the Cafe knows the difference. As far as disrespect, Loar was a man. No doubt, a very gifted man and luthier. But he was still a man and I don't recall reading anything about him walking on water or the such. I see some very short, rude, and borderline abusive replies by certain posters especially when dealing with newbies. We all know the picture posted isn't a "Loar", but the poster was obviously proud of his mandolin and took time to contribute. As musicians we should try to support each other and be constructive instead of snotty and snide with our advice. I try to be complimentary if at all possible, if not, I simply choose not to reply. Anyone recall the old saying..."If you don't have anything good to say, just say nothing at all.

[keebler]

I don't want to contribute anything that could be taken as ill will. But I happen to own a "The Loar" LM-700. And yes, I am well aware of who Lloyd Loar was. I also know that my $1300 dollar mandolin is not a $175,000-$225,000 dollar Lloyd Loar built instrument. I do think most anybody here on the Cafe knows the difference. As far as disrespect, Loar was a man. No doubt, a very gifted man and luthier. But he was still a man and I don't recall reading anything about him walking on water or the such. I see some very short, rude, and borderline abusive replies by certain posters especially when dealing with newbies. We all know the picture posted isn't a "Loar", but the poster was obviously proud of his mandolin and took time to contribute. As musicians we should try to support each other and be constructive instead of snotty and snide with our advice. I try to be complimentary if at all possible, if not, I simply choose not to reply. Anyone recall the old saying..."If you don't have anything good to say, just say nothing at all.

Welcome to MandolinCafe.. well known to be the elitist of any instrument forums. If you don't own a Lloyd Loar signed instrument or instrument made by the most obscure of mandolin builder, you might as well be a no-body.

This forum is chock full of mandolin BUILDERS so they take their mandolin building (and Lloyd Loars) seriously.

Just note how the 8 top forums on this site are about building, acquiring and equipment for mandolins... scroll down 5 pages and you finally find a forum with information about PLAYING the mandolin.

[Glassweb]

I see it like this... let's say you own a vintage Chevrolet Corvette... a nice split window from the 60's... and you're on a "Corvette Forum" or something like that... and say you've had many Corvettes and have been dreaming about them and then collecting and then restoring them and driving them for many, many years... and someone comes on the Corvette Forum and starts posting about his "Corvette" and then goes on to disclose it's really just a "replicar". But he keeps referring to his replica as a Corvette... well, you get the idea.
For people that have a great association with and affinity for the genuine article I don't think it's too unreasonable for them to "protect their interest" whether it be Lloyd Loar Mandolins, Chevy Corvettes or Faberge Eggs. I'm glad for those that are happy with their "The Loar" product. I admire those that make them and market them for their skill and success. I have no beef at all with people talking about, posting about or gushing over their wonderful "The Loar" mandolin. It's just that for me, as someone that's been involved with these mandolins (Lloyd Loar F5s) for 40 years or so, it's a little disconcerting to hear people using "The Loar(s) Word" in vain... as it were.
Now, lets see what happens when they start marketing mandolins called "The Gilchrist"... "The Nugget"... "The Kimble" etc... ;)

[j. condino]

This whole concept would be a lot easier to digest if the Northfield fellows were the ones using the Loar name.

j.
www.condino.com

[George R. Lane]

I don't want to contribute anything that could be taken as ill will. But I happen to own a "The Loar" LM-700. And yes, I am well aware of who Lloyd Loar was. I also know that my $1300 dollar mandolin is not a $175,000-$225,000 dollar Lloyd Loar built instrument. I do think most anybody here on the Cafe knows the difference. As far as disrespect, Loar was a man. No doubt, a very gifted man and luthier. But he was still a man and I don't recall reading anything about him walking on water or the such. I see some very short, rude, and borderline abusive replies by certain posters especially when dealing with newbies. We all know the picture posted isn't a "Loar", but the poster was obviously proud of his mandolin and took time to contribute. As musicians we should try to support each other and be constructive instead of snotty and snide with our advice. I try to be complimentary if at all possible, if not, I simply choose not to reply. Anyone recall the old saying..."If you don't have anything good to say, just say nothing at all.

Mr. Loar was not a luthier and he never built any of the instruments. He approved the build and signed the label.

[keebler]

Mr. Loar was not a luthier and he never built any of the instruments. He approved the build and signed the label.

Builder : "How does this sound?"
Lloyd : "Good.."
Builder : "Sign here..."
Lloyd : "Approved"

Now that is talent.... :D

[f5loar]

One would only need to understand the difference between a Loar era F5 and one assembled after he left to understand he did more than just sign off on them. That's been documented. I certaintly do not consider this a "Loar only " forum. Far from it. You can find out about any mandolin made in the world (past or present) within a matter of minutes of posting a question. You posted only "My Loar" in the header and it got my attention (and many others) real quick. Not that I was disappointed to see it was not a Loar but a "The Loar" I was able to move on and genuinely be happy for the new owner of a The Loar. Ask any of the new The Loar owners that have brought them by my house for free set-ups what I think of them. I know Greg Rich personally since he first walked into Gibson's factory in Nashville back in the mid 80's. His line of import F5 replicas is among the better ones being made. Price wise it's hard to beat. This owner said he did not know of a Loar F5 and I graciously told him how to find out all you need to know about it. Most likely a google search will take you to the wonderful Roger Sminoff article about the life and times of Lloyd Loar. I can't wait to see the movie on his life. To me this understanding of the begining of the F5 would benefit owners of newer copies by understanding why it is what it is. If you have an interest in bluegrass mandolin and all things Bill Monroe you are going to appreciate a real Loar F5. Had Mr. Monroe stuck with his Loar era A snakehead we would be discussing the unsigned '22 to '28 era AJr.,A,A2,A2Z and A4 models and not copies of the F5. Had Mr. Monroe found the one and only signed Loar A5 we (the bluegrass Monroe diehards) would all be owning copies.

[JEStanek]

Welcome to the Cafe. Home of many vocal supporters of your new hobby/interest and a handful of curmudgeons. Lloyd Loar was Gibson's famed acoustic engineer who signed two hundred or so instruments that are now worth between a hundred thousand and millions each. He worked with an amazing group of mandolin builders. He was fired. The most famous one may be Bill Monroe's (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?55) oft neglected and once smashed Loar signed F5 that was brought back from the dead by the late Charlie Derrington.

Your mandolin is a good one to get started on. Before that brand there have been several other brands that have been attractive to new players not wishing to drop $100,000 to several million on a Gibson mandolin from the 20's signed by Lloyd Loar. No foul on your part!

Jamie

[Jim Garber]

I have to say I am not familiar with Mr. Loar but I do like my Mandolin.

Read up here (http://www.siminoff.net/pages/loar_background.html) and you might understand some of what people are talking about.

[almeriastrings]

Now, lets see what happens when they start marketing mandolins called "The Gilchrist"... "The Nugget"... "The Kimble" etc... ;)

I'd seriously hope those builders have someone monitoring the registration of new trademarks, and have taken steps to protect their names and reputations, because it is a real possibility at some point going by this logic:


"Of course it's Marketing ! It's trademarked as " The Loar " not Lloyd Loar"

Greg Rich

Nothing "elitist" about it. Either this way of doing things strikes you as absolutely fine, or it doesn't.

To me, it is pretty simple. You can either build your own reputation, or you can "borrow" (by association) someone else's. Someone who is no longer around to object...

[Glassweb]

Welcome to the Cafe. Home of many vocal supporters of your new hobby/interest and a handful of curmudgeons. Lloyd Loar was Gibson's famed acoustic engineer who signed two hundred or so instruments that are now worth between a hundred thousand and millions each. He worked with an amazing group of mandolin builders. He was fired. The most famous one may be Bill Monroe's (http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?55) oft neglected and once smashed Loar signed F5 that was brought back from the dead by the late Charlie Derrington.

Your mandolin is a good one to get started on. Before that brand there have been several other brands that have been attractive to new players not wishing to drop $100,000 to several million on a Gibson mandolin from the 20's signed by Lloyd Loar. No foul on your part!

Jamie

Of course there's no foul on the original poster's part!

But are we all supposed to "bite our tongue" every time we want to express an opinion... or is it just "rah-rah-rah" types only need apply here?

[almeriastrings]

Marketing by association is nothing new, of course. There is a very large European supermarket chain that has a range of "American" themed food products.....

99200

McEnnedy... I wonder how they came up with that one? They have trademarked it, by the way....

http://food.zibb.com/trademark/mcennedy/31042020

[Chip Booth]

I was one of the first to view this post, but held back for days from saying anything. Like others here I was put off and wanted to say something about "The Loar". No offense against the original poster, I hope you enjoy your mandolin, but I really hate how the builder has used the Loar name. I also hate how Gibson used the Flatiron name to build imports. Epiphone and Washburn brands were absorbed and abused before my time so I grew up with those brands being synonymous with mediocre import quality, but I have come to realize that was misuse of a respected brand name as well. I understand the business model, but I wish it would stop.

But sincerely, to the OP, enjoy your mandolin and welcome to the Cafe. Sorry for the drama.

[Dan Voight]

Enjoy the mandolin! It's not your fault the thread took a turn down this road. Its the fault of the fella that failed to examine the implications of making such a deceptive marketing move.

[dcoventry]

Greg Rich must enjoy that we talk about his products so much, and most of it quite glowing. The rest, well, we know what opinions are like, eh?:grin:

All Press is good press, so they say.

My Loar LM700 was one of the easiest playing instruments I've ever held. Might have been Robert Fear's setup, too.:mandosmiley:

[greg_tsam]

I think the naming was both cheesy and thumbs it's nose at tradition and clever. I wouldn't have done that but Greg Rich is laughing all the way to the bank. Not that it excuses his behavior but he's not losing any sleep over it.

The Mandolin Cafe is not elitist by any means. I have been welcomed by everyone regardless of the mandolin I own and think it's OK if the Old Guard gets it's feathers riled up when a newbie accidentally refers to his "The Loar" as a "Loar". It's an honest mistake but how else is the "kid" gonna learn? :grin:

Welcome and enjoy your "The Loar". And make sure you call it that to avoid the confusion and the dramatic discussions in the future.

[JEStanek]

The dropping of the "The" from The Loar brand by anyone in casual conversation is as reasonable as dropping the "The" from Gibson or Weber or whoever else uses the "The" on their headstocks when referring to an instrument.

I find the heat of the conversation odd considering a new member just wanted to show off his new mandoilin! By reading the first line of the post, we knew it wasn't a Loar signed F5 from the 20s. I would posit that this brand name is less deceptive than using the Flatiron name on an import. It would take a bit more research to discern a recent Flatiron import (how many were made????) than to tell a Greg Rich mandolin from a Loar signed Gibson. In general, you get what you pay for (or you get a great deal on a stolen instrument). I didn't refer to my New (99) Beetle as a new Beetle. I just said drove a Beetle. If I get a Mini Cooper, I won't refer to it as the New Mini Cooper brand.

Jamie

[Caleb]

I find the heat of the conversation odd considering a new member just wanted to show off his new mandoilin!
+1

And I think it's a shame since this is about the coolest place on the internet.

I started a thread a few months ago after finding a 100-year-old Sears catalog and posting pics and prices of the mandolins. Nothing more, just sharing something "interesting." It all got derailed with a bunch of nonsense, like this thread has. Imagine it: someone gets a mandolin, gets excited about it, wants to share that excitement among people who love the mandolin, and....
:popcorn:

[AlanN]

Now, lets see what happens when they start marketing mandolins called "The Gilchrist"...

Dang...what was I thinking...

[mandotrout777]

The dropping of the "The" from The Loar brand by anyone in casual conversation is as reasonable as dropping the "The" from Gibson or Weber or whoever else uses the "The" on their headstocks when referring to an instrument. Jamie

I disagree with this. The company name or brand or whatever it is, of these instruments is "The Loar". Gibson's company name is not "The Gibson", nor Weber's "The Weber". Knowing what I know about mandolins, I would feel like a complete moron referring to one of these without using the "The" in casual conversation.

I'm happy for the OP, I'm sure the new mandolin will serve him well, and I welcome him to the Cafe. But I originally clicked on this topic hoping to see photo's of some lucky person's newly acquired mandolin from the 1920s.

[Tom Cherubini]

Quote: "But are we all supposed to "bite our tongue" every time we want to express an opinion... or is it just "rah-rah-rah" types only need apply here?"

No, but as civilized people we're supposed to be polite. It's not one extreme or the other. And what does it cost to respond nicely instead of antagonistically? You don't get that little surge of macho satisfaction that you slapped somebody down? I can live with that. We all can.

I think by now, the OP has probably sold his mandolin in disgust and bought a guitar. How can he have any fun or be enthusiastic when so-called expert players have belittled him for not knowing all they know about some dead man?

Strings8

[Glassweb]

I'm with you Jeff... I clicked on the topic (My Loar) thinking someone had just acquired a Lloyd Loar F5 and was surprised (well... kinda) to see its picture as something else. I had no intention of hurting anyone's feelings with my original post (which started this whole mess I guess)... it was really just a comment (really more of a sentiment) about a sense of loss...
For many years I was an art dealer specializing in the glass artworks of Dale Chihuly... an internationally known and collected glass artist from Tacoma WA. For years I bought, sold, marketed and collected his artworks. Now you can go on Ebay, type in a search for Chihuly Glass and see any number of copies and outright forgeries claiming to be "Chihuly". I told Dale and his people this would happen years before it happened and they gave me the "high hat"... they could have cared less. Today both the Chihuly name and the market for his works are in shambles. Of course that mostly is the fault of the artist and his handlers. But my feeling of loss and/or frustration is very similar to my feelings about this "The Loar" product. I'm sorry, but what can I say... I'm invested in the work of Lloyd Loar.

[Glassweb]

FORUM: noun - A place, meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular idea can be exchanged.

[Scott Tichenor]

FORUM: noun - A place, meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular idea can be exchanged.

This discussion would be history if you and a select few compatriots weren't keeping it alive. Reminds me of a guy from Texas no longer with us that made it his life's work on the web to try to paint a certain mandolin company in a poor manner when they first came out. All he achieved in the end --by his own admission-- was keeping the name continually in front of the public. Push and you will be pushed back against on the internet. It's the way it works. Some people just don't get it though.

[Glassweb]

<take it somewhere else>

[jesserules]

I think by now, the OP has probably sold his mandolin in disgust and bought a guitar. How can he have any fun or be enthusiastic when so-called expert players have belittled him for not knowing all they know about some dead man?

Strings8

Yes. That seems very probable.

[Frank Farley]

I'm very happy for the OP for his acquiring his The Loar mandolin.It sure is a very nice looking instrument.I used to own one of the early LM 600 VS.mandolins and it was great.For the price I don't think they can be beat,wouldn't care to play one anywhere.Hope he enjoys his as much as I did mine .I feel like many others on here about using the name but in reality there's nothing I can do about it except accept it and try not to let it ruffle my feathers.Really I've come to expect that many times when a thread is started about a Loar mandolin I usually assume 1st that they will be talking about a The Loar .I try to think that the person with his new The Loar mandolin is just as happy with his new mandolin as many on here would be with an authentic Loar mandolin.So to the OP...congradulations!

[greg_tsam]

I started a thread a few months ago after finding a 100-year-old Sears catalog and posting pics and prices of the mandolins. Nothing more, just sharing something "interesting." It all got derailed with a bunch of nonsense, like this thread has. ...and....
:popcorn:

This happens all the time and is part of the cafe's charm...and it's inevitable.

[Kevin Stevens]

I have a The Loar 700. It was the best 1400 mandolin my $768 could buy. I also own one of the 8 prototype The Loar's that Bruce Weber built for Greg Rich in the late 90's. It is an awesome mandolin that gets compliments all the time. I am extremely proud of both of them. I also know the whole history of Lloyd Loar and wish someday I could afford one of his signed mandolins. He was also very instrumental (pardon the pun) in the early development of electric pickups. I typically call them 'The Loar', but the distinction seems to mean nothing to people outside of this website, sorry to say. At least "The Loars' get good reviews from owners and dealers alike. The name gave them the original attention, the quality has kept them in business.

[James5v]

Wow!!!

It is as if I cursed in Church referring to my "The Loar" as a "Loar".

I simply meant to indicate how pleased I am to have this instrument and to say I am having fun playing it. However, I now know that I should be much more careful should I decide to post on this forum again.

To those who feel offended by my ignorance of Mr. Loar I apologize and Thanks for the Welcome.

BTW, if I could figure out how I would delete the photo.

[Scott Tichenor]

Allow me apologize for the treatment you received. We clearly have some work to do on our manners around here. There's a way to point out what was clear to many of us in a more dignified fashion. Since the parade has already been rained on I think I'll close this one. Next time I won't be so nice about tolerating some of what you experienced.

Congratulations on your new mandolin and I hope you enjoy it.