View Full Version : How the West Was Won
aimee
Jan-25-2005, 12:39pm
Anybody know if it was John Paul Jones that did the mando work on Goin' to California and some of the other pieces on that album? Anyone know what kind of mando(s) they used on the live disc?
I've got the library's copy, so any liner notes are long gone.
Chris Cantergiani
Jan-25-2005, 1:16pm
Dude.... I always have time for a Led Zeppelin thread.
The DVD they released around the time they put out the How the West Was Won CDs show JPJ playing mandolin.
Hope that helps.
Zep Rules.
Chris
Spruce
Jan-25-2005, 2:02pm
That's a great recording...
Or rather, 2....
They had the "sterile" board tapes, and the "noisy unfocused" bootlegs taped from the audience with a couple mics...
Put the two together in ProTools and line them up...
Voila!
David in IL
Jan-25-2005, 3:00pm
My understanding is that J. Page played all the mandolin on the albums (the quasi-apocryphal story about "The Battle of Evermore is that he simply picked up the mandolin and started picking away, without knowing very much about the mandolin at all). However, I've seen photos of JPJ playing mandolins in concert, so I suppose that onstage Page played guitar and Jones handled the mandolin.
Plamen Ivanov
Jan-25-2005, 5:38pm
I think, that`s what you are talking about:
Keith Erickson
Jan-26-2005, 12:01pm
I always dig another Zep fret.
[/QUOTE]My understanding is that J. Page played all the mandolin on the albums (the quasi-apocryphal story about "The Battle of Evermore is that he simply picked up the mandolin and started picking away, without knowing very much about the mandolin at all).
I first cut my teeth on "The Battle of Evermore". One of my personal favorites.
However, I've seen photos of JPJ playing mandolins in concert, so I suppose that onstage Page played guitar and Jones handled the mandolin.[QUOTE]
John Paul Jones used to play a combo, 6 string-12 string- mandolin.
Another fun song to play on the guitar and mandolin is "That's the Way" from Led Zepplin III. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
TeleMark
Jan-26-2005, 4:32pm
Another fun song to play on the guitar and mandolin is "That's the Way" from Led Zepplin III. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
One of my favoriet Zep songs EVER. I love the progression. The album that Plant and Page released in the mid-90s has a phenominal version of this track. I think they just re-released this as a remastered CD.
Then there's the debate as to whether the song is about racial prejudice or a dead child... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
David in IL
Jan-26-2005, 4:48pm
Then there's the debate as to whether the song is about racial prejudice or a dead child... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
I've always taken it as a song about a child's friend who has, in 60s/early 70s argot, "tuned in, turned on, and dropped out;" that is, he's alienated or something.
Keith Erickson
Jan-26-2005, 8:22pm
One of my favoriet Zep songs EVER. I love the progression. The album that Plant and Page released in the mid-90s has a phenominal version of this track. I think they just re-released this as a remastered CD.
Then there's the debate as to whether the song is about racial prejudice or a dead child...
I have to be totally honest with you. I have no idea what that song is all about. All I can honestly tell you is that it's one hell of a song and I was jumpin' up and down, when I figured it out on the guitar and mandolin.
It reminds me a lot of hanging and partying in the woods in Ringwood and West Milford, New Jersey back in the late 80's and early 90's. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
mandobob
Jan-27-2005, 3:27pm
Boogie w/ Stu is an all time fave 'go to' solo when I'm warming up.
jefflester
Jan-27-2005, 9:48pm
To answer the original question, JPJ played any and all mandolin parts on How the West Was Won. Live, JPJ played all mandolin parts except for when they did "Battle of Evermore" on the '77 tour, Page played mandolin on that and JPJ played guitar on the Andy Manson triple-neck.
In the studio, I'm less certain. Page definitely played BoE on Zep IV, but I was always under the (perhaps incorrect) assumption that JPJ played most of the other mandolin parts. Liner notes are unhelpful in answering this question. I don't think there is a detailed "sessionography" like there are for some other bands.
Some of the mandolins that JPJ played in Zep shows:
The Andy Manson triple (mando,6,12) neck in 1977:
http://www.andymanson.co.uk/jpj_flat_top_triple.htm
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/multimedia/photos/jpj12.jpg
http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/pg/jpj6.htm
http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/pg/jpj16.htm
The Harmony batwing electric in 1975 (as seen in the Earl's Court footage in the Zep DVD):
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/images/harmony-mand.jpg
A Fender "mandocaster" circa 1971:
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/images/fender-mand.jpg
An A-style circa 1970:
http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/pg/jpj55.htm
http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/pg/1970-72.htm
http://www.photosets.net/artist/ledzeppelin/lz700628p09.htm
Page playing an A-style on BoE in 1977:
http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/idx_1977-9.htm
http://www.photosets.net/artist/ledzeppelin/lz770530p06.htm
mad dawg
Jan-28-2005, 12:35am
In this interview (http://www.led-zeppelin.org/reference/int5.html), I think Page is saying JPJ was playing mandolin in the studio on Going to CA and Battle for Evermore.
jefflester
Jan-28-2005, 3:26am
I just gave Going to California from HTWWW and BBC Sessions a good listen. It sounds like JPJ is playing the Fender mandocaster on HTWWW (6/27/72). But on the BBC Sessions (4/1/71) he is playing an acoustic 8-string, probably a Gibson A.
Plamen Ivanov
Jan-28-2005, 4:01am
The picture, that I posted is from the live performance of "Going to California".
jefflester
Jan-28-2005, 1:38pm
The picture, that I posted is from the live performance of "Going to California".
Where'd you get that picture? Apparently it's from a VH1 broadcast, but it only kinda looks like Jonesy and the drum set looks wrong.
mad dawg
Jan-28-2005, 3:14pm
I found this from an old thread on the Mutual Admiration Society: link to an MP3 of JPJ playing an instrumental version of Going to CA during the MAS Tour. (http://www.comebackdownload.com/kilnmascali.mp3) (After listening to it quite a bit, I am actually much more fond of it than the original version with Plant and Sandy Denny on vocals.)
jefflester
Jan-28-2005, 5:08pm
Yeah, those instrumental versions by JPJ and Sean Watkins on the MAS tour are great. That Lime Kiln show (8/17/04) is also the best recording of the whole tour. They did that song at every show, many of which can be downloaded from LMA:
MAS 2004 tour on LMA (http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php?collection=etree&cat=Mutual%20Admiration%20Society%3A%202004)
JPJ was not at the July 21st Largo show I recorded, which wasn't really part of the tour.
jefflester
Jan-28-2005, 5:44pm
(After listening to it quite a bit, I am actually much more fond of it than the original version with Plant and Sandy Denny on vocals.)
You're confusing 2 mando songs from Zep IV. Sandy sang on a Battle of Evermore.
mad dawg
Jan-29-2005, 2:30pm
Ooops -- you are quite right, except that I didn't have the songs confused, but I confused which song Denny was on. (In my head now, I can clearly hear Denny on BofE.)
Keith Erickson
Feb-01-2005, 1:27pm
Has anyone see the Page and Plant colaberation from 1994? It's a great CD, but I must admit I got the chills by watching Page Play the Battle of Evermore. A very enchanting version with two thumbs up. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
BriMcFly88
Feb-02-2005, 5:42pm
This thread is amazing. I love zeppelin. That live mandolin solo of going to california is just beautiful. I wish I had more mixes of it as well.
Anyone know an ACCURATE way to play gallows pole on Mandolin? I will be forever grateful!
The battle of evermore is my favorite song. I am improving my mandolin on that song everyday (i'm a beginner). Anyone know of mixes for this song?
Also, how do you play .snh files on the link provided in the admiration tours page?
Rock on
-Brian http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
jefflester
Feb-02-2005, 7:27pm
Anyone know an ACCURATE way to play gallows pole on Mandolin? I will be forever grateful!
I've never played this to see how accurate it is, but other Jeff Strawman tabs seem very accurate:
Gallows Pole Tabs (http://www.led-zeppelin.org/tablature/gallows_pole.html)
Also, how do you play .snh files on the link provided in the admiration tours page?
You can play SHN files in winamp with a plugin. You can also convert them to WAV for CD burning using mkwACT. See software file links here:
SHN FAQ (http://userpages.umbc.edu/~hamilton/shnfaq.html)
BriMcFly88
Feb-02-2005, 8:47pm
Jefflester, you are the man. I got the .shn to play and i'm loving the songs i'm hearing.
The gallows pole mandolin tab, although probably right, doesnt sound right. I guess I thought more of it was the mandolin when its obviously the banjo playing as well. I wasn't sure.
BriMcFly88
Feb-05-2005, 4:32pm
Does anyone know of a live version, or covered version, of battle of evermore? something diff? i'm dying for some more of it.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
TeleMark
Feb-05-2005, 5:47pm
Does anyone know of a live version, or covered version, of battle of evermore? something diff? i'm dying for some more of it.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
Heart did a cover of BoE on the Singles soundtrack (I thought it was on the Zep tribute "Encomium," but Google corrected me). When you remember that Ann is married to the director of the movie, I guess that makes sense. Pretty well done, I thought.
Dave Hicks
Feb-07-2005, 7:48am
Does anyone know of a live version, or covered version, of battle of evermore? something diff? i'm dying for some more of it.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
Are you familiar with the No Quarter (Unledded) version?
D.H.
Keith Erickson
Feb-07-2005, 12:08pm
Does anyone know of a live version, or covered version, of battle of evermore? something diff? i'm dying for some more of it.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
Are you familiar with the No Quarter (Unledded) version?
D.H.
The Video of Unledded is totally awesome. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
jefflester
Feb-07-2005, 10:09pm
Heart did a cover of BoE on the Singles soundtrack (I thought it was on the Zep tribute "Encomium," but Google corrected me). #When you remember that Ann is married to the director of the movie, I guess that makes sense.
Actually, it's Nancy who's married to Cameron Crowe and it's technically "The Lovemongers," Ann and Nancy's acoustic side project that did BoE. But I love that version, even though Ann muffs the lyrics in several places.
Zep played BoE only on the 1977 tour when they brought back their acoustic set. Any bootleg from 1977 would probably have it. Vocal alert - Jonesy sings the Sandy Denny parts and it ain't pretty.
BriMcFly88
Feb-08-2005, 3:48pm
Guys, I never heard of the unledded version. The only thing I have, which is cool in itself, is the olympic demo version (with alternate lyrics). The quality is poor. I've searched limewire for alternates and did not find it. Is there a name or a cd in specific which has those versions?
Is anyone kind enough to share it with a fellow led zeppelin lover? I'm sooo into this song and its making me love playing the mando ten times more.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
fangsdaddy
Feb-08-2005, 4:46pm
last yrear's mandolin syposium was a really great experience but my personal highlight was getting john paul jones to sign my collings mando case. when i made my request, he laughed. i also told him how seeing zep in cleveland in '77 was one of the best musical experiences of my life. so now when i go to bluegrass jams & players ask who signed my case i reply, "led zeppelin's mandolin player." i do get some weird looks....
jefflester
Feb-08-2005, 5:05pm
Guys, I never heard of the unledded version. The only thing I have, which is cool in itself, is the olympic demo version (with alternate lyrics). The quality is poor. I've searched limewire for alternates and did not find it. Is there a name or a cd in specific which has those versions?
The Unledded version is on both the CD and the DVD:
Unledded CD (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002VKZKM/qid=1107898920/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3676968-7144645?v=glance&s=music)
Unledded DVD (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002MGY5G/qid%3D1107898989/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-3676968-7144645)
I personally don't care much for this version, I watched it again last night. I don't really like Najma's singing, she sings very few of the actual words of the Denny part. Page is playing his own Manson triple neck:
Page Manson tripleneck (http://www.andymanson.co.uk/jp_triple_neck.htm)
Heart did BoE on the recent Alive In Seattle DVD/CD; nice version.
Talking of GtC, Zep did some amazing performances of it on their Japanese tour of 71...
Cheers,
Simon
dan@kins
Feb-17-2005, 1:15pm
You guys are my heroes! #I love this thread.
I had no idea JPJ sat in with the Mutual Admiratin Society!
I'm going to be doing some serious downloading this evening!
thanks for your posts!
jefflester
Feb-17-2005, 10:36pm
I had no idea JPJ sat in with the Mutual Admiratin Society!
Here are few pics:
MAS 7-29-04 pics (http://www.danphillips.com/photography/mas_7_04/10.html)
(Dan Phillips is Glen Phillips' brother)
Keith Erickson
Feb-18-2005, 4:59pm
I had no idea JPJ sat in with the Mutual Admiratin Society!
Here are few pics:
MAS 7-29-04 pics (http://www.danphillips.com/photography/mas_7_04/10.html)
(Dan Phillips is Glen Phillips' brother)
What exactly is the Mutual Admiration Society? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
jefflester
Feb-18-2005, 6:45pm
What exactly is the Mutual Admiration Society? # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Collaboration between Glen Phillips and Nickel Creek:
MAS description at Sugar Hill Records (http://www.sugarhillrecords.com/catalog/pagemaker.cgi?1067)
When they did the tour last summer, they added John Paul Jones and drummer Pete Thomas from The Attractions to fill out the band.