Loar LM600VS Tone - Help

[Arutha]

Hello fellow mandolinists

Ive just received my new Loar LM600vs (following such good reviews read here at the mandolin cafe) and am a little dissapointed with the tone (it also sounds tinny/metallic).

Im in no way a pro, Ive only been playing now for 6 months (every waking moment though) with my 60s Harmony and tone-wise the Harmony sounds a lot woodier, though quieter.
I purchased the Loar over the net as I'm in Sydney and nobody retails these things so couldn't try it out first.

Do Loars come with basic gear, like the bridge, that I should replace? Should I take it to a Luthier? I would have thought it would sound a lot better than a Harmony...
Ive tried adjusting the way I play, ie further up the neck but still can't get it to sound as good as my old cheap one.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Peter

“The final aim and reason of all music is nothing other than the glorification of God and the refreshment of the spirit.”
― Johann Sebastian Bach

[almeriastrings]

The first thing I'd say is that after you have been playing one instrument for a long time, your mind and ears kind of 'adjust' and get used to that tone. Even from a cheapie. A totally different instrument can come as a bit of a shock. Now, the LM-600 is an F-style tone-bar mandolin. It is not going to sound as "sweet" or "warm" as you may be used to. They are quite mid-rangy. That can be part of it.....

Setup is also critical. I have to say I have found the 'factory' setup on 'The Loar' range to be very bad indeed. They really do need a good "going over" by someone who knows mandolins - more so than some other similarly priced brands I can think of. The hardware quality, especially the bridge, is also (in my experience) well below par (though the tuners are good). I have worked on around 20 of them now, and in only a few did I find the bridge acceptable. In some it was diabolical - to the point of filler being used in the feet and even cracked saddles that had been roughly re-glued. The actual fit of the bridges were generally awful. A properly fit, decent quality bridge certainly helps. The best are things like the CA bridges... but you not necessarily have to go that far to get an improvement. I've fitted "Golden Gate" and Stew-Mac bridges and they are considerably superior to what is usually on there.

A change of strings can also help. For an F-style, these are still a low-priced instrument, however, and while decent value (when set up) the law of "you get what you pay for" does apply. As you will read time and again on here, you get more A-style bang for buck than you do with F-styles, generally.

[SincereCorgi]

I totally agree with Almeria about the setup, and might go a step further and look into how difficult it is to exchange it if there are big problems. Some of The Loar stuff is really excellent, but I've seen some things they've shipped that shouldn't have been allowed to leave the factory.

[Mandolin-Tele]

Mine took a while to open up I have Elixir® Strings on mine and had it setup but I think it still need a new Cumberland bridge and James Tailpiece

I've ran mine on a tonerite too and that helped it alot

I love mine and it sounded better then a Weber and a Breedlove mandolin at the store that set mine up

[Alan Lackey]

Wow...I happen to love mine. It does not sound "tinny" at all. I cannot comment on the quality of the bridge, but I have looked it over very critically and it appears to be in perfect shape. However, it did need setup. It still needs some adjustments I think just to get my action just right but otherwise I have been really pleased with it as my first mandolin.

Good luck with yours.

[Stephen Perry]

Often tinny when they are out of the box. I don't like the stock bridge. Steve Smith's Cumberland Acoustics bridges are excellent, he's here at SPBGMA, and the bridges still look great! Past setup, the LM600 really benefits from cleaning up the soundholes, balancing the bridge and a few other fast tweaks. See, e.g., http://www.mandovoodoo.com/mandolin2.html for a description of this worker's approach.

[P.D. Kirby]

If you didn't buy it through one of our supporting retailers, TMS, Folk Musician, Gianna Violins etc. then you are most likely suffering from a poor or nonexistent setup. Unfortunately a lot of music stores lack the skills to properly setup a Mandolin....

[Arutha]

Thankyou all for your advice. I think the setup isnt ideal but it is playable. Since posting yesterday I've noticed that the strings put on are light gauge. As a guitarist I know you never get as good a sound from light gauge strings so those will be removed and replaced with something better.
Ive also tried playing further up the neck than I was before and it is actually sounding quite good, in comparison. So far playing mandolin I've rested the heel of my palm on the bridge (and strings behind the bridge) as an anchor. However, to get to the sweet spot I can't do that. I guess I will need to change the way Ive been playing and not anchor anywhere (which will take some getting used to).
Again, thanks to everyone for their input. This mandolin cafe is fantastic.

[almeriastrings]

If they are light gauge on there, someone has definitely messed with it, because they ship with 0.11's to 0.40's.

Try a set of J74's. They work well on those.

You'll need to adjust the bridge as the difference in tension will result in some top movement.

[Marc King]

I also, recently purchased a LM600 sight unseen. However, I found a dealer of The Loar instruments in Sydney (I am in Noosa in Queensland) and after being told they will undertake the setup before sending it up to me,I decided to support a local dealer rather than buy one from one of the sponsors of the Cafe, albeit at a higher price. Anyway, the instrument arrived very poorly setup, I suspect they didn't touch it at all actually. Whilst it was playable and had reasonably good tone, it was a long way from its potential. After getting my usual luthier to give a once over it is now an incredible instrument. Much better tone and much easier to play.

I also own a Eastman MD305 which required no setup at all and plays like butter.

As everyone else has pointed out: 1. Setup matters with these instruments! 2. By purchasing from on of the Mandolin Cafe supporters, you are much more likely to end up with an instrument that you don't need to spend any extra money on.
I know where my next Mandolin is coming from!:)

[Michael Eck]

Yes, the setup makes an enormous difference. But the advice for any instrument is play it, play it, play it. As my ear learned my Loar and I learned how to play it, the sound really expanded for me. And I think making a few of Steve Perry's tweaks can be very beneficial, especially as regards the soundholes.

[GuyIncognito]

I just had my Loar 600 set up by Michael Walker along with a scooped fingerboard and CA bridge and I definetly noticed an improved tone. More rounder and full, less 'tinny'. I thought the soundholes looked a little different but I thought it was my imagination. How exactly does scraping the soundholes help the tone?

[Stephen Perry]

I don't know what "scraping" means in this context. Getting rid of rough edges on ports smooths out the tone and reduces noise, in instruments or electro-acoustic transducers. I use fine files and then paper.

I suspect that reflections from rough edges on ports travel through the boundary layer and impact the primary sound coming from the instrument to a greater degree than initially seems reasonable.

[GuyIncognito]

I see, is that a fairly normal procedure for an instrument when its getting set up?

[Stephen Perry]

No.

[Steevarino]

Stephen's simple "No" answer above made me laugh! He's right, of course, but these "The Loar" mandolins are sort of an exception. Normally when you buy an instrument, of course you expect it to be playable and sound OK. Most of these mandolins that come through our shop fill that bill. Also, few people argue with the price of these mandolins, as they are an exceptional value. So, the way I see it, these mandolins fill two existing markets. The first one would be the people that are more interested in price than overall performance. What I call their "Factory Fresh" models do just that. Then, the other market these mandolins work well in are the folks that may be just a bit more discerning in what they want in a mandolin. Also, it is reasonable that these folks would be willing to pay a bit more for the final result. A better bridge, especially when coupled with an overall quality set-up really do take these mandolins to the next level. I have sold/upgraded quite a few of these "The Loar" mandolins, and found this to be the case every time: Improved volume, better chop, and an improvement in overall tonal qualities, with the added bonus of far more accurate intonation than the stock bridge offers.

The nice thing is that you have the option to do this in two steps. You can get the mandolin the way it comes. If you like it, fine, stop there. If you feel that there is some room for improvement (or as your playing skills improve) it's nice to know that you can have this minor amount of work done to your existing mandolin, and have a far more responsive, better sounding, and often easier playing mandolin.

Or, simply . . . "No" . . . ;)

[Stephen Perry]

I was referring to the "scraping" of ports. I generally don't see the low end instruments with prepared port edges. The whole influence of fine details on the acoustic performance of instruments is rather interesting. Certainly it allows some workers to acquire used instruments that don't work optimally at a relatively low price, then turn them around once they're working well!

[dfalkiewicz]

As a beginner, (less then 6 months) I would also like to mention your right hand technique will change the sound of the mandolin. When this initial sound changed on my mando I thought my laminate was opening up......hah.....NOT!......but then realized it was actually the placement of my right hand and the way I held the pick at the guidance of Mike Marshall through his Artist Works lessons.

Yep after a cool setup and some time on your mando, your sound will change and you will love it!

As mentioned here, I have seen cheapo mandos with cool setups sound amazing............and heard great mandos with a crummy setup that sounded plain awful!

Welcome to the site..............this place rocks!