Gibson Master Model vs. Collings MF-5

[calgary.fiddler]

I am the very happy owner of a Collings MF-5, But today at guitar works i noticed that they had just gotten in a Fern F-5 Gibson MM. Apparently it took them 2 years to get it in! It was priced at $6700 CAD. I got to try out the mandolin, and the sound took me by surprise. Firstly the action was far far to low, so the tone was no where near where it could have been. But I was surprised to hear how bright the mandolin sounded. The two Gibson F-5G's That I have previously played had a nice woody low end and not much in the higher register. Do you think this has anything to do the fact that its a newly made gibson? or the fact that it hasnt been played and broken in yet?

Secondly comparing the sound to my Collings... Lets just say the Collings blew it out of the water. FAR louder in every respect, Much more choppyness and the highs are far nicer sounding on the Collings. (of course to be fair my Collings it 10 years old and the Gibson is both brand new and has far to low action).

Despite the underwelming sound it produced the store employees where extremely excited by it (none of them where mandolin players of course). But they seem assured that they would be able to sell it over the weekend. Interesting to see how long it stays up there for haha.

[calgary.fiddler]

Here is a picture of me holding the Gibson, as well as a picture of its beautiful flame.

9781397814

[almeriastrings]

The new ones I've heard over the past 2 years have been superb 'out of the box'. Very little setup needed. They've also all (F-5L and F-5G's) had a really nice, balanced tone with plenty of low end and very clear highs. Hugely impressive. Could be a number of things going on here..odd it has a "far, far too low" action, as the action is normally factory set to spec and a signed measurement card included in the case.... bridge shifted somewhat, or someone has messed with it, or it is incorrectly humidified. Has to be something wrong there. That would also have a major impact on the tone, of course.

Strictly speaking these are not a "Fern F-5 Gibson MM".

They are a Gibson F-5L or simply F-5 Fern.

[JeffD]

It doesn't usually say much to compare one example of one instrument with one example of another instrument. One could need a set up, one could have newer strings, or new strings versus strings that have been "broken in". Or perhaps one has just come out of a dry climate and is just getting acclimated to where it is while the other has been there for a week.

I am not saying anything about your experience, just to be careful of generalizing from a comparison of one Collings MF-5 with one Gibson F5 Fern MM.

That being said, its great to find you love the instrument you brung.

[f5loar]

Any freshly built mandolin cheap or expensive can settle in during shipping. Usually a dealer has qualified people that at least do miniumn set up to at least present in it's best light to sell. Sometimes they don't. I got into it with a nearby Gibson dealer (they lost it) over a Sam Bush that the bridge was so low it buzzed on the 10th fret. I told them no way I could see buying it until it was fixed. They took it back to some guy for 20 minutes and it came back worse. I told them I could set the bridge for free and of coarse they said I could not do that so I walked out without a Bush model. PS: That was 8 years ago. The Bush model is still there.

[calgary.fiddler]

Thanks for the input and insights! It probably is kinda unfair to compare them. Like I said there were many factors acting on the F-5L's less than astounding tone.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Any freshly built mandolin cheap or expensive can settle in during shipping. Usually a dealer has qualified people that at least do miniumn set up to at least present in it's best light to sell. Sometimes they don't. I got into it with a nearby Gibson dealer (they lost it) over a Sam Bush that the bridge was so low it buzzed on the 10th fret. I told them no way I could see buying it until it was fixed. They took it back to some guy for 20 minutes and it came back worse. I told them I could set the bridge for free and of coarse they said I could not do that so I walked out without a Bush model. PS: That was 8 years ago. The Bush model is still there.

How different things can be. I ordered a brand new (varnished) Fern a little more than three years ago at Janet Davis'. It was set up fine, but one d-string buzzed at the 1st fret. (Since I didn't care for the string spacing either, I replaced the nut.) So after three years, this mandolin mellowed a bit, but still sounds bright (I asked Gibson's David Harvey to pick the one out of that batch in progress with the nicest treble), has a particularly outstanding e-string and plenty of volume overall. That mandolin does not quite hold up against my MM, DMM and an older F5 I have in terms of "woodyness", but it sure sounds great.
Except for your report, Calgary.Fiddler, I haven't heard any negative comments about the recent Gibsons. Too bad they don't currently seem to make any varnished MMs.

[mandotrout777]

calgary.fiddler - I sent you a PM.

Thanks.

[f5loar]

I relate the sound and quality of the Gibson mandolins (all models,all years with the 70's being an exception) to Sears paint......... good, better, best. (The 70's would be good, worse, and absolute crap). No arguments Gibson made the best of the best in the Loar years and many recently. Then there are those that are quite good but you got a lot that are better. Outside of this particular F5L Fern having a twisted neck or sunken top, I have no doubt it would fall in one of those 3 catagories once it has been set up properly by someone who knows how to do it. Guitar guys at music stores are not always the best at mandolin set ups.

[jimbob]

I have played a few recent Gibsons ( 3-5 years) and most have been very nice with good tonal qualities. I never have played a Collins but hope to some day. I really don't get to many music stores these days because there aren't many around my house. The best Gibsons I have personally tried were probably from around 2004-2005 ....of course referring to recent production and not one from the 20's. I think there are still very individual qualities to each instrument. My Gibson really didn't get "the sound" until I went to SS strings. I don't think there's one out there now that I would trade for....glad poster likes his Collins. Glad I have my Gibson. Glad it's Friday and the beer is cold !:mandosmiley:

[Ivan Kelsall]

I know that it's not the finest sound quality to listen to,but i do use YouTube a lot as a source of 'pick along' tunes.Yesterday i watched a couple of clips of a guy playing a Rattlesnake mandolin,which i think is currently on offer in the Classifieds.Knowing that one of our most well known contributers on here owns one & thinks highly of it,i had a listen. IMHO it sounded exactly like my Weber Fern.The clarity of tone comes over more than any 'woodiness' in the bass,which is good,but not what i term 'woody'.I've found the same thing with a lot of newly made (or still fairly young) instruments.This is where i think that what we term 'opening up' or as one member put it,'maturing' comes into play.The OP rightly mentions that his Collings is 10 years old & the Gibson is brand new.That the action was too low as well wouldn't help. With a good set up,i'm sure that Gibson would sound better & also it should improve with time & playing - i wish it was mine.Gibson is still the 'magic' name,& if you get a good one,what more would you want ?,
Ivan;)

[Mike Snyder]

Collings and Gibson do not, to my ears, aim for the same tonal qualities in their mandolins. Other contributers in other threads have come much closer to the definition of these qualities than I will be able to here. That's a tough thing to find words for. It is quite likely that once you've played a good quality Gibson, Weber, Collings, or Schmergel for a number of years, that sound will become one that you prefer to hear in a mandolin. We live in the golden age of mandolins and many builders are producing very good sounding instruments. Sorry to hear that you found the Gibson such a dog. I can assure you that many Gibsons are anything but. I love the sound that Weber and Collings build into their mandolins. I've played a few. They're very nice, but different from my Gibson. Not better, not worse, different. And the Schmergel is devastating.

[Golffool]

Gibson had a new Fern at SPGMA yesterday that had been strung last Monday. It was the best new mandolin I have ever seen or played. Unbelievable tone and it would peel paint.

[Mike Bunting]

I am the very happy owner of a Collings MF-5, But today at guitar works i noticed that they had just gotten in a Fern F-5 Gibson MM. Apparently it took them 2 years to get it in! It was priced at $6700 CAD. I got to try out the mandolin, and the sound took me by surprise. Firstly the action was far far to low, so the tone was no where near where it could have been. But I was surprised to hear how bright the mandolin sounded. The two Gibson F-5G's That I have previously played had a nice woody low end and not much in the higher register. Do you think this has anything to do the fact that its a newly made gibson? or the fact that it hasnt been played and broken in yet?

Secondly comparing the sound to my Collings... Lets just say the Collings blew it out of the water. FAR louder in every respect, Much more choppyness and the highs are far nicer sounding on the Collings. (of course to be fair my Collings it 10 years old and the Gibson is both brand new and has far to low action).

Despite the underwelming sound it produced the store employees where extremely excited by it (none of them where mandolin players of course). But they seem assured that they would be able to sell it over the weekend. Interesting to see how long it stays up there for haha.

I have a 10 year old MF5 too and I'd say that even if the Fern was set up properly and 10 years old the tonal differences between the two would be quite obvious, but I'd suggest that the poor sound you heard was due primarily due to the lack of set up and to age.
Guitar Works like most music stores in Alberta only has rock and roll ears and their set ups are probably based on the low action of an electric guitar. I assume that the store employees are excited by the fact that it has the name Gibson on it.
I'd suggest that in Calgary, the most knowledgeable acoustic instrument store is The Acoustic Guitar Store.
http://www.acousticguitar.net/index.html and in Edmonton we have Myhre's Music. http://www.myhresmusic.com

[woodysny]

I have owned several Gibson MM's and a Carlson F5-L. Also Collings MF5 and Deluxe. No way does a Collings blow a High End Gibson out of the water. Collings are superb mandolins, as are Gibsons. My experience with many mandolins, especially with High-End Gibsons is that you really have to "wake them up". If the Gibson is just sitting in a case or hanging on a wall, then you should play it really hard for a few hours or even longer to see how it really plays. As others have noted, set-up is critical. I had my MM set up by Gibson and the difference was amazing as to how much better it played and sounded.

[Bernie Daniel]

I agree with Mike Snyder -- Gibson and Collings mandolins are so different in their sound that I don't see how one can readily "compare" them.

At the first Monroe Style mandolin workshop in Owensboro some years ago somebody a Collings was smart enough to bring a bunch of their mandolins to the the camp the Int. Bluegrass Museum. The attendees could pick on them all they wanted to. So I did spend plenty on time on the MF-5 that was there as well as the other models.

I loved the bright, crisp tone of those Collings mandolins but I don't see how a person could say it is "better" or "worse" than a Gibson with its characteristic bassy-woody tone. There were dozens of Gibson mandolins at the camp and I sure would not say the Collings were "louder". But a lot of that is subjective.....

They are just different -- I think in the bluegrass field the Gibson tone is more popular than the Collings if the number of players is an indication.

BTW that looks like a regular F-5 Fern probably with lacquer finish -- if it was a "true" master model (or MM model) it would have had a varnish finish and the price tag would have been well north of $6700 Canadian. Gibson has confused people with their schizophrenic use of the "master model" designation for decades.

[sgarrity]

Remember gentlemen, mandolins are individuals. I've played some absolutely terrible Gibsons and some amazing Collings. I've also played some Gibsons that I'd drain the bank account for and a fair number of good but average Collings. The OP compared his mando to a new Gibson and found he didn't like the Gibson. That's his personal experience. I don't hear him saying all Gibsons are bad. He just didn't like that one. Maybe a set up will help it some. Maybe it won't. But why did it leave the factory that way??

I've only played one of the new Harvey-signed Gibsons and it was one of the Mandolin Store custom models. It was a solid mandolin. Not necessarily what I'd buy but it sounded great in its owners hands.

[almeriastrings]

But why did it leave the factory that way??


We don't know for sure that it did. They come with a hand-written check list card in the case that states the measured factory setup so should be possible to check against that.... but it is possible that someone else messed with it, or a humidity issue could be involved. Common in stores that do not specialize in fine acoustic instruments.

[rico mando]

Could it be a factory second ? I know of a local store I suspect of selling seconds as firsts . though I have never seen a gibson or even mandolin at this particular store

[f5loar]

If this mandolin is all this bad it needs to go back to the factory for an intensive re-valuation and set-up. I bet they would do that service for dealers free of charge.

[kymandolin29]

i was down in nashville last weekend and went in to the gibson room with all the new stuff they had....golffool is 100% right about that fern in there....it was without a doubt the best new mandolin ive ever heard...bar NONE...ever...and that mandolin will only improve with playing..that is going to b one awesome piece...if i had the dough i wooda bought it....
david harvey is doing some good things at gibson and obviously knows what hes doing...all of the post flood f5g s ive heard have also been good but that f5 fern was unbelieveable

[almeriastrings]

Could it be a factory second ?

No.

[mandotrout777]

We don't know for sure that it did. They come with a hand-written check list card in the case that states the measured factory setup so should be possible to check against that.... but it is possible that someone else messed with it, or a humidity issue could be involved. Common in stores that do not specialize in fine acoustic instruments.

Depending on how long it took to get from the relative damp of Nashville to the high and dry of Calgary, it easily could have dried enough to cause the action to "sink" a little. I called the store to ask about this mandolin and the OP must have played it on the day it arrived. Gibson's factory setup is 5/64 at the 12th fret on the base side and 4 on the treble, which some people might think is a little low. My mandolins are set about there and I don't think they are suffering for tone, but I once had a friend ask me why I had the action set like an electric guitar.

Personally I have my doubts that there is anything wrong with this mandolin at all beyond being new and maybe a little tight. Like others have suggested, the OP is accustomed to the Collings sound, likes it, and sets that as the benchmark. A Gibson Fern isn't going to sound like a Collings MF5.

[Bradley]

I have owned both the Collings and Gibson Mandolins and like many have said its really unfair to compare them. They are designed and built for two different sounds and Looks. I grew up playing traditional stuff and thats how my ear is trained,and I personally prefer the Gibby sound. However I like the sound of the Collings more modern sound as well in certain settings.

I just recently picked up a new F5G and there were no set up problems at all from the factory. Right in the box it had Mr. Harveys signature who was the last person to touch it before it left Gibson...needless to say what it played like. When shopping at the "electric stores that happen to have mandolins" keep in mind the rockers that work there have no idea what the Little Guitar/Uke Thingy/Mandolins are, nor even care about acoustic instruments at all.