Doug Kershaw of the mandolin?

[oldsouth]

Is there a Doug Kershaw of the mandolin? To my knowledge, the real raging cajun has never been truly captured on film, but this will give you an idea:

http://youtu.be/ubSCPBkTyWY

If you have ever seen Natalie MacMaster turn her fiddle white with rosin on a Scottish tune.... you still can't imagine Doug with a few drinks in him at a fais do do! So, I'm wondering if there is a (non-bluegrass) mandolin player who plays his instrument with such strength and passion.... if he were Cajun, Creole or of Acadian heritage, that would be even better!

[swain]

Donna Stoneman? Check out the Stoneman Surf video on u tube

[oldsouth]

I can sort of see that... the Stoneman's are legendary where I come from. But she doesn't have that Jerry Lee Lewis quality, like this cat may just be crazy... and maybe dangerous!

[Charles E.]

You mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkdz18UtTEk

[oldsouth]

Oh yeah! I saw some other videos on youtube, but not his one! NICE! Okay, she comes close, but still doesn't have the volatile, mercurial personality. I'd have asked her out if I hd been around back then.... if I didn't know what Stoneman girls look like when they get older! 97642

[mandobassman]

...I'm wondering if there is a (non-bluegrass) mandolin player who plays his instrument with such strength and passion....

Strength and passion maybe, but that is some terrible fiddle playing, IMHO. I have a friend that played in his band in the 1970's and said that he was one of the biggest "#%&*$@+?" he's ever know in 40 years of playing professional music.

[oldsouth]

ALthough I don't agree, I get why you would say that... you can't play with that much reckless abandon without sacrificing precision...... but if you play precisely, you'll never play with that much abandon! In other words, you have to be really good to play that badly and still play with such charisma and soul. Like Hendrix at his prime - he was one of the best of his generation but at Monterey Pop or Woodstock, precision went out the window and was replaced with pure passion. Contrast that with the Ramones, who played (fun music), with all the energy, but none of the skill/talent. I'm also sure Doug could be difficult - lets just say his family tree has more roots than branches...... That is why I put him in the Jerry Lee category. I've seen him put more energy into a room and bring more joy to folks than anyone... seriously, anyone.

[mandobassman]

I respect your opinion but, as a musician, I'll take precision any day. I've seen lots of musicians put passion and precision into their music.

As for his personality, more often than not, fans seldom see the "real" person on stage. From the stories my buddy has told me, he put as much "reckless abandon" into being a total jerk to his band as he did his music.

[mrmando]

Reverend Donna Stoneman is still a beautiful lady:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvlMf_iurWk

Provided that a mandolin is properly tuned, it would be difficult to make it sound as crappy as Kershaw's fiddle does in that clip. Charisma and soul are no excuse for playing out of tune. Martin Hayes has that much charisma and soul in his pinky, and his intonation is spot on. He doesn't need the Pepe Le Pew shirt or the fish-in-a-barrel rhythm section either.

Chris Thile certainly has his energetic, flight-of-fancy moments on mandolin ... and yet there's no more precise mandolin player on earth.

[oldsouth]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen Chris Thile off and on since he was a kid - he is quite the musician, but I don't really enjoy his music tough. Technically, he is nearly perfect and I have the utmost respect for him, but I don't have fun listening to him... not for any reason I can put my finger on, and I don't mean it as a criticism. I've seen Doug Kershaw get old folks off their seats to dance into the night. It is just my preference, but I'll take that any day. That isn't to say that Chris can't make folks dance... some folks dance to Allison Krauss (but she puts me into a peaceful sleep) - to each his own.

[oldsouth]

As for his personality, more often than not, fans seldom see the "real" person on stage. From the stories my buddy has told me, he put as much "reckless abandon" into being a total jerk to his band as he did his music.

I don't doubt that at all and won't fault you for stating it.

[mrmando]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
About what, exactly?

[oldsouth]

Crappy as Kershaw's fiddle - I love it! I grew up with a lot of old time and blues musicians who "tuned to themselves"... and I knew Jimmy Martin in his later years (talk about volatile!). I guess I'm not a perfectionist, because I wouldn't trade the memories of those dynamic performers for anything.

[mrmando]

Objectively, his playing is badly out of tune in that video clip and his tone is, shall we say, somewhat less than optimal. I suppose we can disagree about whether these facts are important, but they are still facts. I've heard other recordings of "Diggy Diggy Lo" that have fewer problems, in particular the duet recording with Mark O'Connor (now there's a fiddler who can play a mean dance groove or a soulful blues lick without compromising technique).

None of this is to deny that "Diggy Diggy Lo" is an enjoyable tune or that Kershaw is an accomplished showman.

It seems to me, for technical reasons, that it's much harder to play the basic Cajun shuffle groove on a mandolin than on a fiddle. You don't have a bow for the long actuations, so you can't slur notes or alternate between legato and staccato to the extent that a fiddler can. And, since actuations with a plectrum are so short, you have to be precise or you'll break up the groove. Unlike Kershaw, you don't have the option of being sloppy. This may be part of the reason that not a lot of mandolinists are known for leading dance-oriented bands.

A short list of get-up-and-dance type mandolinists:

Pasquale Troise
Armandinho Macedo
Buzz Busby
John Kruth
Sam Bush
Rich DelGrosso
Tiny Moore

I think, however, if you want somebody who was frequently out of tune, sometimes sloppy, had no tone to speak of, but could keep a happy groove going, Yank Rachell is your man.

[allenhopkins]

I remember (gather 'round, kiddies, while ol' Pops Hopkins reminisces) a wonderful John Hartford set at the Fox Hollow Festival, maybe 1972, with his Aero-Plain band: Norman Blake on guitar, Vassar Clements on fiddle, Tut Taylor on Dobro. They were joined on stage by David Bromberg on guitar and a Vermont fiddler named Alan Stowell, who I believe was working with the McGarrigle sisters at the time. Absolutely amazing music --

But what interested me was the contrast between Clements and Stowell, who was a jump-around, elbows-and-kneecaps fiddler, leaping about the microphones -- and Clements, who barely moved, other than his fiddle bow. Yet there was as much musical energy, if not more, in Vassar's breaks as in Stowell's. Whatever remarkable kineticism Stowell put into his playing, it was trumped and over-trumped by the tone, imagination, and clarity of Clements' fiddling.

I also remember Benny "Big Tiger" Martin showboating all over his Nashville Grass bandmates, until Kenny Ingram could have mashed his Mastertone over Martin's head. There's "dynamism," and there's jus' plain showin' off. The fact that some audiences eat up the latter, doesn't matter much to people who are there more for the music than the show.

[mrmando]

Oh, and if being a jerk who makes people around you miserable is part of what it takes to be a great musician, then you'd better add Ira Louvin to the list...

[Jim Garber]

Reverend Donna Stoneman is still a beautiful lady:

A little help for you, Martin.

YvlMf_iurWk

[mandroid]

My take on the question would be people associated with that particular region's musical styles ,
and taking that little area's uniqueness to a larger audience..

But Blugrass as we know it came out of players further north , well off the Gulf Coast and the Bayou.
Kentucky and Tennesee, not Louisiana..

But I'm Out West,so I dont know much about the Cajun styles, other than the Fiddle and Accordion players..

[mrmando]

A little help for you, Martin.
Embedding is still disabled ... if you want to see Donna do her thing, you gotta hit YouTube.

[mandroid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvlMf_iurWk&feature=player_embedded

I Get the audio but a blank screen , but maybe that was all that was posted.

[mrmando]

I guess I'm not a perfectionist, because I wouldn't trade the memories of those dynamic performers for anything.
Well, sure you wouldn't. As Jimmy Martin's former bass player, Friederich Nietzsche, put it, "That which does not kill us only makes us stronger."

[oldsouth]

I just wanted to apologize for my remark about Stoneman women's appearance... it was in poor taste. It is a distinctive look though. I was in a grocery store last year and glanced over at the woman in line behind me - I immediately asked, "Are you a Stoneman?" Turns out that she did have Stoneman heritage, like 3 generations back... she still looked enough like Roni Stoneman to win a look alike contest! I've met a few Stonemans and found them to be very nice and genuine people. I used to hang around the Carter Family Fold a lot, and found that to be true of most of the old time crowd.... just down to earth, welcoming, real people.