SO CONFUSED

I dont know what strings to use, im not even sure wether my instrument is more of a octave mandolin or a Irish bouzouki.
Seems in between, can someone help me? lol!

[Michael Lewis]

I think you will have to try it both ways to find which works best for you. Do you prefer the tone to have a stinging edge of the octave strings (bouzouki) or the more fundamental tone of unison (octave mando). I don't think one is better than the other, just different.

[Martin Jonas]

Possibly more to the point, you have to have a look what is your scale length in order to find the most appropriate strng gauge. There is some overlap between instruments sold as "bouzoukis" and those sold as "OMs", but in general, bouzoukis tend to be longer scale. Many have a scale of around twice that of a standard mandolin, i.e. around 26" (660mm). That means that if you use strings that are the same gauge as normal mandolin strings, you automatically get a pitch one octave lower at the same tension. Consequently, some sets of bouzouki strings are just longer versions of mandolin strings, with additional octave strings. The Newtone bouzouki (or OM) strings, for example, are .11 to .39, with ten strings to the set, allowing you to string either in octaves or in unison. On the other hand, many octave mandolin have much shorter scale lengths, meaning that larger gauges are more appropriate. Consequently, many string sets described as being for "octave mandolin" have thicker gauges. D'Addario J80, for example, have .12 to .46, with a wound .22 a-string. Also, as mentioned by Michael, these typically don't have any additional octave strings, so you can only string in unison.

Martin

[otterly2k]

Dem-- I'm with Jacob... ask the luthier what is recommended... start there, and then tweak (carefully) based on your preferences. If the luthier isn't sure, then try another... Freshwater has string gauge recommendations for his instruments available on his website, for instance... just make sure you're comparing instruments of the same scale.

Then, based on how it sounds and feels to you, you can adjust accordingly. In my experience, instruments tell you (by how they sound) when you have just the right combo... it's like an acoustical sweet spot...
KE

Ok I'll find out the scale on it, It came with dadario irish bouzouki strings, and I just felt like they were a bit floppy to the touch, so I went and got john pearse octave mandolin strings 12-45 wound a string and they sounded awsome loved how the tension was, problem is one of the wound a strings broke 3 hours after I put them on. Is this possibly an indication that im not supposed to have these strings on there? I wasnt strumming at the time, was only tuning.
The d adario irish bouzouki strings were only 11-40.
Heres a pic of me holding the instument maybe that'll also show its overall size.

Ok people here are the differnt lengths of my instrument.So what do you all think its considered? is it more of an om mandolin or an irish bouzouki?

Scale length is 22-3/4" (22.750")
Overall length is 34-1/2"
Neck length from nut to body is about 14-1/4".

[Avi Ziv]

Dem,

If it helps, here is a link (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=16;t=20947)#to my thread talking about string options for my Petersen OM, which is 22.5".

Avi

[Martin Jonas]

For that scale length, the 11-40 sets you had on do sound too light -- that's roughly what I have on mine with its 3.5" extra length. So, I'd say that the gauges of that 12-45 set you had on sound about right; they're also very close to the various options discussed in the thread linked by Avi for a very similar scale length.

Martin

Man thankyou so much, all of you are very helpful, wish Their was some om/zouki players around here in capecod. You guys should post some pcs of your om/bouzoukis

[otterly2k]

Dem-
12-45 was the recommended gauges for my Trillium at 22.5" scale. Even so, I have found I prefer slightly heavier, and after some experimentation, I've found that I like 14-24-34-44. There aren't any sets that come that way, so I have to get individual strings, but I find it's worth it to have strings that feel right and bring the best out of the instrument and my playing.

KE

[jc2]

MY trinity college OM with 20" scale didn't sound right until I got to 15-24-34-47 and if anyone knows about a wound 16 it would be PERFECT, but I can't find anyone making them.

jc

[Adare_Steve]

...if anyone knows about a wound 16 it would be PERFECT, but I can't find anyone making them.

jc
I've searched high and low for a wound 16, and I can't find them anywhere. I'm a music shop owner, so I know several string distributors and no one could help with that quest. I've also tried a wound 18, and had it snap just as it tuned up from G# to A.

Steve

[onthefiddle]

Hi Dem,

The OM string that you put on may have broken because the luthier made the nut for the lighter gauge of strings that he fitted it with.
It's no big deal - just ask him to adjust the nut grooves if you want to use heavier strings - it'll save you more broken strings!

Enjoy your instrument!

Jon

[Martin Jonas]

I've searched high and low for a wound 16, and I can't find them anywhere.
Don't know about wound .16s, but the d'Addario FT74 set has a wound .15 third string. In my experience, normal d'Addario mandolin strings are long enough for most OMs and a fair few shorter bouzoukis, although I haven't measured the FT74s. The wound strings (but not the plain strings) in the J74 set are long enough for my 26" Zouk.

Martin

[steve V. johnson]

I came to OMs from guitars and thru five or so instruments I've had to experiment to find what gave me what I thought to be the right sound for each instrument. I usually use guitar strings, and just pick up pairs from the local guitar shop (Roadworthy Guitar & Amp, Bloomington, Indiana) until I get it right.

If the instrument seems light on the bass, I try larger, if it's boomy, I go smaller...

I have a distrust of OM and 'zouk string sets, they all seem very light to me, and the tensions are far lower than I like them.

Is that a Flatiron OM you have there, Dem?

Wound sixteens... what a concept! <GGG> The woundest I go is a wound .020 set on the A course.

stv

[Adare_Steve]

The woundest I go is a wound .020 set on the A course.
I've seen you wounder! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Also, Roadworthy...what a great shop. The last (and only) time I was in there a friend of mine played the Dobro's and National's beautifully!

Steve

[steve V. johnson]

I've seen you wounder! #:D

Also, Roadworthy...what a great shop. The last (and only) time I was in there a friend of mine played the Dobro's and National's beautifully!
Well... onstage behaviors and any activities after midnight don't count!! LOL!!

And thanks for the nice compliment (to both me and Roadworthy), but we'd better not slide this topic off into resonator instruments! <GG>

Fighting Topic Drift like Superman,

steveV

[spud]

If you need a wound 16 string..the flattop mandola "A" string is a 16 gauge,the
number is FT401 and you can buy them in packs of 5 to a package !

Boyd

[steve V. johnson]

So, Dem...

Howz your confusion now?

stv

[Adare_Steve]

Well... onstage behaviors and any activities after midnight don't count!! #LOL!!
Where I come from, there's a U in behaviours (seems appropriate) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif There's also an I in no-interesting-behavour-to-report!

Think about it.

Steve

[Dagger Gordon]

I use 11,21,30 and 42 for my Sobell 8 string cittern, which doesn't look too far away from the size of your instrument. I always buy individual strings or sometimes guitar sets and use what I need (D'Addario lights are reasonably close).

I also have a tenor banjo and use the same for it, though the neck is much shorter. I find that a wound second string is essential - a B guitar string just doesn't work, although if I'm really stuck it would do for one of the pair. We also have a Buchanan instrument, what he calls an octave mandola but we tune it the same way. However, it seems happier with slightly heavier strings.

You just have to try different ones and see what works. It's important to get it right, though. It can make a very big difference to how the instrument plays and sounds.

[Adare_Steve]

I use 11,21,30 and 42 for my Sobell 8 string cittern...
The various names we give to CBOM instruments is pretty confusing to me, at times. E.g. when is an 'Octave Mandolin' not an 'Octave Mandolin'? Presumably. when it's a 'short-scale bouzouki'!

But, I really did think that a Cittern always had 10 strings. So, when is an 8-string Cittern not a bouzouki?

Can someone tell me the difference, please!

Steve

[Dagger Gordon]

God knows, I've stopped worrying about it.

However, in this case Sobell sold it to me as an 8 string cittern. I haven't checked his web site for ages, but I expect you'll see something about there.

[steve V. johnson]

Well... onstage behaviors and any activities after midnight don't count!! #LOL!!
Where I come from, there's a U in behaviours #(seems appropriate) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif There's also an #I in no-interesting-behavour-to-report!

Think about it.

Steve
(in my best early Archibald Leach impression)

Um... 'urts me 'ead...

stv with a V in it

[steve V. johnson]

I use 11,21,30 and 42 for my Sobell 8 string cittern...
The various names we give to CBOM instruments is pretty confusing to me, at times. E.g. when is an 'Octave Mandolin' not an 'Octave Mandolin'? Presumably. when it's a 'short-scale bouzouki'!

But, I really did think that a Cittern always had 10 strings. So, when is an 8-string Cittern not a bouzouki?

Can someone tell me the difference, please!

Steve
Somewhere in this thread there is posted a link to a nomenclature site.

Still, here's my 'working guide' to this nominative swamp, all lengths refer to scale length (saddle-to-nut):

Mandolas are anything longer than a mandolin up to 18" scale and are tuned CGDA.

Octave mandolins are 18-23" and tuned in some variation of GDAE, GDAD, or A's & D's. Unless someone wants to call their instrument an octave mandolin.
Bouzoukis need to be called Octave Mandolins in airports. NEVER use the word -bouzouki- in an airport. At least not one in the USA. <GG>

Bouzoukis are 20 - 25".

Mandocellos are 23 - 27" (I'm guessing about the 27, but they are big!) and are tuned CGDA.

Anybody who uses the word Cittern either means five courses & ten strings OR they can use it any way they want to.

Another good, semi-generic term for any of these is "stretch mandolin". This works well for those who don't actually speak mandolin, and just want to converse.

That's what works for me. Not very scientific, tho. I toss these things around with great abandon, unless I'm around people I respect. Then there are whole paragraphs in store. <GG>

stv

[Adare_Steve]

(in my best early Archibald Leach impression)
Um... #'urts me 'ead...
If Carey Grant had played the zouk...would it have been an Arch(ibald) top model?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[steve V. johnson]

Ow.

stv

[Dagger Gordon]

I've just had a look at Sobell's site.
I see he now refers to a 5 course cittern and a 4 course octave mandolin. Although he sold it to me as a 4 course cittern, I shall refrain from calling it a cittern any more.

Actually, although I tend to refer to it as my cittern, if anybody asks me what it is I usually say 'octave mandolin'. I've never referred to it as a bouzouki although I suppose it's much the same as what most people think of as a bouzouki.

The whole name thing is a dog's breakfast. Just tune it how you like and call it what you like.