Mandocello models in Mando Orch

[violmando]

[/B]I'm trying to find out which makes/models of Mandocellos players use in Mandolin Orchestras. Why do you like them? What would you recommend? I have on loan to me a 20's Gibson (too big for me!) and a Larson/Stahl that I REALLY like.
Do you have vintage instruments or new ones? THANKS!

[Jim Garber]

I have a rather rare 1937 Gibson mandocello. Whatis espinteresting sthat it has a very slim neck. My theory is that Gibson put a guitar neck on a leftover mandocello for a custom order.

The recent one I have played is a Dell Arte mandocello. Sort of a Selmer clone. It was pretty nice sounding.

Jim

[Bob A]

While I no longer have a mandocello, I applaud anyone who can play one. The scale coupled with tuning in fifths was way too much for me.

What I do have is a 1936 Gibson L10 archtop guitar, that sounds like nothing so much as a gigantic mandolin. If I had the need and the nerve, I'd have it modified into a mandocello. It'd be a great one.

There are lots of good handcarved solid-top archtop guitars from the 30s around for cheap. All it takes is a new nut and saddle, and some professional work modifying the headstock to take 4 on a side tuners, and there you are. Just look for a cheap archtop that sounds like a giant mandolin, and off you go.

[violmando]

THANKS, Jim for answering my question!
The Gibson I have isn't marked very well, but we're pretty sure it's a K-1 from the 20's and the neck feels like a baseball bat! It's too bad, because it sounds lovely, but I just can't get comfy on it. I DO have small hands, tho' I play upright bass just fine with them! I have seen pics of the Dell'Artes--would love to try one, especially after your comments.
"Cellos are so rare and not very cheap, so it's not like I'll get lots of opportunities to try them out! This is to narrow the field...
Isn't it a GREAT sound, though?

[violmando]

That's sounds great, Bob, and I think I could handle the guitar shape better than the roundness of the Gibson, but doesn't there need to be some extra bracing for all those low strings? Is it something that most guitar luthier/repair folks could do?
THANKS~
PS I was a 'cello minor in college, so the fingering is EASY for me--it's the pick technique, especially tremolo that keeps me struggling!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Bob A]

I've heard of mandocellos converted to guitars. I can't say that going the other way hasn't been done. So far as bracing etc is concerned, I'd think that the string gauge is the stressing factor: you might have to end up getting bulk strings in gauges appropriate to the instrument, and making up your own sets.

I'd also thought that just messing around with a new nut and string spacings, doubling the treble courses and single-stringing the two bass courses would work, though it wouldn't make for proper tremolo. It would, of course, alleviate the problem of messing with the headstock and tuners.

Insofar as Gibson did indeed make guitar-bodied mandocellos, and if fading memory serves me, some were signed by that pen-wielding Acoustic Engineer Lloyd Loar, I'd assume that the whole project would be well within the limits of the possible. Finding the right guitar and luthier would be the only real sticking point. My guitar was cheaply obtained, as someone had stripped and refinished it, thus destroying the collector value without harming the tone.

[Jonathan]

Bob's right about old archtop guitars making good mandocellos.
I've been playing a converted mid-30's Gibson L-50 in the Baltimore Mandolin Orchestra, and have found it quite pleasing, especially considering that I bought it for much less than a K-1 or K-2 would run. String Instrument Repair in
southern PA (to name just one shop) does such conversions all the time.
The advantages of the guitar shape are greater ease in holding the instrument, thinner neck, and a slightly greater resonating cavity which at least has the potential to give you better low end tone. It's also easier to find a good case!
I have also played a Dell Arte cello in the orchestra which was a flattop, shaped like an oversize guitar. It had the most resonant C string of any mandocello I've played, but didn't quite have the warmth of a vintage carved top, at least to my ears.

Jonathan Jensen

[violmando]

I'm definitely looking into the Dell'Arte--I thought the guitar shape might be easier to hang onto.
RE converting an old archtop--would it be easier/better to convert a tenor guitar than a 6 string? Please ignore my ignorance!
I guess my feelings are that if it's a nice enough guitar to want to make into a mandocello, maybe I shouldn't mess with it because it IS a nice instrument!
Thanks all for you replies--I'm finding this fascinating!

[Jim Garber]

RE converting an old archtop--would it be easier/better to convert a tenor guitar than a 6 string? #Please ignore my ignorance!
The tenor guitar would have a very narrow neck in most cases and I would also assume that the bracing is much lighter than for a six string.

I heard Jonathan play that L-50 conversion at CMSA and it has a very pleasing sound and he plays it quite well. I esp enjoyed his mandocello accompaniment to Carlo Aonzo's playing.

Jim

[ethanopia]

Would a Silvertone flatt top guitar convert into a mandocello ok? I have one sitting around perhaps it would be a good project for me. Hmmmm

What string gauges would one use for such a beast? I think lighter than standadr mandocello wouldn't you think

[Eugene]

On guitar-shaped mando-cello/mandoloncello, both Martin and Gibson built some original 'cellos on guitar bodies. One of these days, I'll get around to a proper bowlbacked liuto cantabile (a 5-course mandoloncello with a high e'), right after I wake up and find myself wealthy...

For flat-top conversion, check out this article at Frets.com (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Structural/8StConvert/8stconvert.html). Mr. Ford uses octave mandola tuning, but I think guitar scale would be much more friendly in mando-cello tuning.

[Bob A]

Jim's right on regarding tenor neck size. Some of the old Gibson archtops have nice wide necks that lend themselves well to the extra stringing.

As was also mentioned, the archtop, in addition to being easily converted, has elements of the distinct mando-tone which I'd think would be lacking in a flattop instrument. But I've ben wrong before.

And the price. The archtop boom/bust cycle is deep into "bust" at this time, especially for the lower-ended models, which are of course fine player's instruments, and saved from the collectors by virtue of their simple virtues, relative abundance, and general disuse at this time. It would be no sin against them to convert a few to another use. quite the contrary.

[Pete Martin]

The older Gibsons have to me the best blending tones. I use a teens K1 and love it.

[delsbrother]

I'd also thought that just messing around with a new nut and string spacings, doubling the treble courses and single-stringing the two bass courses would work, though it wouldn't make for proper tremolo. It would, of course, alleviate the problem of messing with the headstock and tuners.
I like this idea. I believe some mandocellists "back in the day" went with 7 strings - to get away from the buzzy C strings. So it's not that much of a stretch (pardon the pun) to go one string less, IMO.

I even tried it with a Dean Flying V Electric (I called it the Mandochicken ™) but never was really happy with the sound. Maybe it was the pickups, or the pairs, but whatever. Now I have an Ovation, and though it's still a struggle, I'm enjoying the struggle much more. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif