Cypress as a tone wood

[rerefret]

Anyone worked with old cypress as a tone wood? Front or back ? It seems to have a very straight grain and is very light.

[Jim Garber]

The only stringed instruments I have ever heard of using that wood are flamenco guitars.

[almeriastrings]

Many years ago. Built a Spanish (Flamenco) guitar using it (Cupressus sempervirens) for back and sides. Be aware, though, that other species are also known as "Cypress", some with very different structural and tonal properties, e..g, "Swamp Cypress" (Taxodium distichum). What kind do you have?

[tree]

Here in the Southeast, the common name "cypress" usually refers to Taxodium distichum.

Odds are the cypress in flamenco guitars is a different species.

[billhay4]

A couple of other woods closely related to cypress are used in guitars, too. Alaskan Yellow Cedar and Port Orford Cedar. Both are excellent in certain uses.
Bill

[Jim Garber]

I had a feeling that was the case. When I visited Louisiana we saw these cypress knees. I guess this was what you would call swamp cypress? Doesn't look like you could make much of a guitar or mandolin out of it.

I did find some good info on the wood as used in flamenco guitars on this site. (http://www.lafalseta.com/The_Flamenco_Guitar.html):

Cypress is still considered the most typical wood for the back and sides of a flamenco guitar. Mediterranean cypress (Cupressus sempervirens) is a creamy/yellowish-colored wood with a very pungent aroma, which never seems to dissipate completely, even on older instruments. The wood sometimes has distinctively dark grain lines, but is otherwise rather plain in appearance. Because of its stability, cypress can be worked very thin; combined with its light weight, this facilitates the biting flamenco tone. A close cousin to Mediterranean cypress is Monterey cypress (Cupressus macrocarpa), which grows on the West Coast of the US and has many of the same properties.

[Spruce]

Anyone worked with old cypress as a tone wood?

There was a fairly well-respected violin maker who--back in the 80's--conjectured that all of the Golden Era Cremonese instruments were actually made from cypress, and not spruce....

This created a big run on the aforementioned Port Orford Cedar for violin tops, even though it's not even a true cypress... ;)

[rerefret]

The Cypress I have is from a very old water tower in the Texas hill country. Back in those days there was lots of cypress growing along the rivers there and within a 75 mile radius. It could have come from Louisiana, but I sort of doubt it. I haven't uncovered the grain on the wider planks(from the base) yet but the 2x3 vertical side pieces have a very straight beautiful grain ,tight like most european spruce I've seen. Very light .

[Spruce]

The Cypress I have is from a very old water tower in the Texas hill country. Back in those days there was lots of cypress growing along the rivers there and within a 75 mile radius. It could have come from Louisiana, but I sort of doubt it. I haven't uncovered the grain on the wider planks(from the base) yet but the 2x3 vertical side pieces have a very straight beautiful grain ,tight like most european spruce I've seen. Very light .

The stuff you have is probably the same species as the Louisiana cypress, no?
You see it used successfully by a lot of Cajun fiddle makers.
I've got a set here somewhere that I'll post a pic of if I can find it...

[rerefret]

Probably taxodium distichum since that seems to be the main North American species found.

[Rob Grant]

I'm curious about the old swamp cypress (taxodium distichum) myself. I've got a "monster" growing down next to my water course that I planted over thirty years ago. It doesn't really fit in with all my local Oz rainforest natives, so I'm constantly eyeballing it off for harvesting as a possible instrument timber. The butt (trunk) of the tree is massive for such a young tree.

[Russ Jordan]

CE Ward built some mandolins with cypress tops. I think Alan Perdue played one during his Mountain Heart days.

[almeriastrings]

As flamenco sets:

http://www.madinter.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_producto.php&md=0&ref=MJC1

In its natural habitat:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YEmksSq_Ibg/Tq7__ZgopWI/AAAAAAAADeU/GEQ7_hHc9ms/s1600/cypress.JPG

I have several in my garden here. Very drought-resistant, and also quite fire-resistant, too.

[David Newton]

Southern or Bald Cypress can be used as tonewood, but it is a very poor one. It is not very stiff, is soft, and is amazingly hard to bend without cracking right across.
I built a guitar of it, an L-00, because the wood is local to me, but it was "semi-successful". I did play it for several years, but with a pick up installed. The straight acoustic tone was so - so.
I have a "country fiddle" made of Cypress by an EM White from Shepherd Tx. It also sounds ok, but its value is in being a Texas Primitive.
I've seen very old salvaged wood, both sunk wood, and reused wood from old buildings. It seems to be harder than current wood at the yards, and much tighter grain. If you could source some of this, it would be an interesting experiment to build with.

[Clicker]

In general terms, density charts (@ 20% moisture) show cypress to be about 13% more dense than spruce. How this might relate to building a mandolin I have no idea unless there's a way to compensate for the denser material, e.g., it may need very little bracing. My interest is piqued though. Do you have some extra? -h

[Pete Jenner]

I'm curious about the old swamp cypress (taxodium distichum) myself. I've got a "monster" growing down next to my water course that I planted over thirty years ago. It doesn't really fit in with all my local Oz rainforest natives, so I'm constantly eyeballing it off for harvesting as a possible instrument timber. The butt (trunk) of the tree is massive for such a young tree.
Chop it Rob chop it - you know you want to:-)

[rerefret]

I haven't gotten a clear look yet at the wide boards.I may have furniture grade and not really instrument grade .If the wide boards had as pretty a grain as the 2x3's ,I'd be thrilled.

In general terms, density charts (@ 20% moisture) show cypress to be about 13% more dense than spruce. How this might relate to building a mandolin I have no idea unless there's a way to compensate for the denser material, e.g., it may need very little bracing. My interest is piqued though. Do you have some extra? -h

[alk]

if you look up the Turkish fiddle, also called Klasik Kemence or Politiki Lira (Πολίτικη Λύρα in Greek) you will find that the most common wood used for the top is a type of Cypress. I am not sure what the reason for that is..

[j. condino]

I've used Monterey and Spanish cypress for guitars with similar results. Everyone generally knows that is makes a great flamenco guitar, but it also makes for a killer steel string guitar when used for the back and sides. The tonal range is similar to Honduras mahogany, but it is lightnng fast to respond in the player's hand- much quicker than any of the traditional materials.

I you have some of any species that is well dried, stable, seems to have the dimensions and a musical like quality that attracts you to it, and is already paid for, I'd encourage you to give it a try. I've asked for help with new ideas and materials on many occasions and was told that it would never work, but later following my gut, the result was fantastic. Like most, I've also built a few instruments out of very accepted traditional materials that were complete faillures....hence my avatar...

j.
www.condino.com

[whistler]

if you look up the Turkish fiddle, also called Klasik Kemence or Politiki Lira (Πολίτικη Λύρα in Greek) you will find that the most common wood used for the top is a type of Cypress. I am not sure what the reason for that is..

Probably because it's an abundant species in Turkey.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Cypress was used in 18th century Italy for harpsichords for both back & sides and tops. These days, some harpsichord makers love using that wood, although it doesn't seem easy to locate. Should make a fine mandolin.