why is one mandolin easier to play than the other?

[ashdale]

I've been playing bluegrass mandolin for 25 years and have two F5 mandolins. One is a Washburn Jethro Burns of 1983 vintage, maybe earlier, and the other is a Gibson of 1993 vintage, maybe a year earlier. The Gibson is slightly larger than the Washburn. The Gibson has a greater volume and I think its tone is better. Generally I regard the Gibson as being the superior mandolin, except for one thing. The Washburn is easier to play!

This is probably because the Washburn neck is shorter and therefore the fret distances are shorter, hence easier picking. It's annoying that I can play a tune like Leather Britches or Raw Hide at a decent bluegrass speed on the Washburn but struggle to reach that speed on the Gibson. Yet I've lowered the Gibson bridge as far as I can without getting buzzing. So is it all to do with string gauge?

I use the same gauge of string on each (at the moment I'm playing D'Addario J62's). Obviously I can make the Washburn as difficult to play as the Gibson by raising the bridge or putting on heavier strings on but that defeats the object. I want to make the Gibson more playable!!! I doubt that heavier strings (eg J74) on the Gibson would do that and lighter strings will lose tone.

Neither instrument has been "setup" for my use but I'm wondering now, what could be done to make the Gibson more playable?

Or is my experience similar to what other players have found?

[Jim Garber]

Neither instrument has been "setup" for my use but I'm wondering now, what could be done to make the Gibson more playable?

I think you answered your own question. I would advise to take them both to a luthier and have at least a consultation as to what you could do. We can guess here but they are only partially educated guesses since we do not have the instruments in hand.

Are you sure that the scale length is shorter on the Washburn? I would think that both mandolins would be around 13 7/8" scale. In fact, I just checked the Washburn site (http://www.washburn.com/products/bluegrass/mandolins/m6sw.php) and the specs say 13.75" scale which is somewhat shorter but I can't imagine that would make that much of a difference.

I find that the neck profile does make some difference in playability and that may be a factor tho not one you may want to change on an instrument. If that is the case, you may want to sell the Gibson and have a quality instrument built with a neck profile that would be like your Washburn.

[fatt-dad]

check the nut height. I bet the Gibson's is higher than the Washburn's.

f-d

[EdHanrahan]

I'll bet that the neck relief (curvature of the neck away from the strings) and/or the nut slot height (above the fret height) is greater on the Gibson than on the Washburn. I'm constantly surprised at how little relief mandolins require compared to guitars. See Frank Ford's Frets.com for detailed info.

[Gregory Tidwell]

Until recently I had a Washburn A of unknown vintage, and a 2003 Breedlove Quartz OF. I loved the sound of the Breedlove, and I had it professionally set up three times, but the Washburn always, always played easier. Everyone agreed with me, and nobody could figure out why. Still I played the Quartz more because it sounded so much nicer.

[Austin Bob]

Lots of factors figure into the playability of an instrument. Setup is first and foremost; but neck profile, nut width, fretboard radius and even the finish can all make a difference. Sometimes you get one that just feels right, but doesn't sound so great. I had an old laminate top Aria guitar that was like that. Played like a dream up and down the neck, but just never quite had the sound I wanted. I kept it as a beater for 30 years until it finally needed more work that she was worth, then passed it to a beginner.

[sunburst]

I started learning to play the banjo after I graduated from college in the midst of a recession (working odd jobs, part time things, had plenty of time but no money) and when I outgrew my starter banjo and tried out better banjos in stores I found that I couldn't afford them. I noticed that some were easier to play than others and, like you, I wondered why. Those were the days before the internet and I set about learning what the differences were between better, more playable instruments and lesser instruments from books, conversations, and simply observation. I wanted to find out what I could do to get my cheap banjo to play like the better ones in the stores.
It is a slippery slope you enter when you start asking such questions! You could end up being a luthier like me, and make hundreds of dollars a year! That's how it happened in my case.

So, my advise: Take it to someone to have it set up. The mysterious things the luthier does to make it play better; don't worry about those. Get a good job and just pay to have your set up done for you.

[Alex Orr]

Same issue with my Brentrup and my Kentucky 350. It's not that the Brentrup is tough to play, it's just that the Kentucky is faster. Then again, when it comes to the sound, there's absolutely no comparison. Played side-by-side, you might think the Kentucky was a toy made out of plastic, which is really less of a strike against the Kentucky than it is an acknowledgement of how deep and rich the sound is from the Brentrup, especially in the lows and mids where the KY is particularly thin. My guess is that the KY has two things going for it. Number one, it's a flat fingerboard, which I've come to believe I noticeably prefer. Also, it's got a thinner neck with less of a V. But the sound... I've honestly never played a mandolin with a stronger D course in particular.

[Astro]

I agree with Sunburst and everyone else. Get a set up by a mandolin specialist. Its well worth the money.

I dont know but I would guess that even small scale length (nut to bridge) differences can make a noticeable difference on mandolin because the scale length is so short that a fraction of an inch is relatively significant enough to be noticeable. I think post to tailpiece distance can be important because the string can be pulled beyond the nut and bridge.

Also fret size, neck size, and neck shape can play a role in perceived playability.

Also, sometimes string gauge subtleties can be counterintuitive. With zero relief that mandolins prefer, slightly larger strings of j74 may allow lower action w/o buzzing at zero neck relief.

When you go get a set up, bring a set of strings for the luthier so he sets it up with what you want.

[ashdale]

Thanks for all your replies--I'm glad it wasn't a trivial question!

I should've added some dimensions. The nut-bridge length of the Washburn is 6 7/8" but for the Gibson, it's 6 15/16". Furthermore, the bridge to end-of-body length of the Washburn is 5.75" and of the Gibson it's 6". That's why I say the Gibson is "larger" than the Washburn. Both mandos are 1.5" wide at the 12th fret but the Washburn nut is 1 1/16" compared to the Gibson's 1 1/8". So the Washburn neck tapers more. The necks seem to have a similar cross-section. Using the other side of the steel rule, I measure the Washburn nut height as 20mm but the Gibson nut height as 18mm. Smaller, yes, but a measurement I made a few years ago of string height over the 12th fret gave (contradictorally!) Washburn, 48 thou on first course of strings, 39 thou on fourth course, but 86 thou for all Gibson strings. I believe that when I made those measurement, I had equal string gauges on both mandos as I have now. I can't lower the Gibson bridge height any more to reduce this 86 thou without getting buzzing.

I play with a nice "carbon nylon" pick, 1.14mm, which says PICK BOY-JAPAN on it. I've thought that maybe I should use different picks on the two mandos to compensate for the difficulty in playing but then that's yet another variable after string gauge!!!!! Until I get this sorted, I'll keep as much the same between the two mandos as possible.

In the area of England where I live, there aren't any mandolin specialists as such that I know of, though there are guitar makers of course. I guess a guitar maker will have all the knowledge and understanding that goes into playability so I will track one down after Xmas and see what he says.