Weymann Mandolute

[trebleclef528]

I've noticed that recently there have been quite a few Weymann Mandolutes on Ebay. Can anyone give me some information about these?

Are they Mandolutes in the true sense of the word... or is that just the name given to them. We were wondering whether or not to buy one for our orchestra but I'd like to know more aout the sound and where it would fit in re
mandolin, octave mandolin, mandola (tenor), mando cello etc

Or is it just an ordinary mandolin.
Thanks,
Ian

THE ART OF THE MANDOLIN

When one Plucks a string on this Plucking thing
You'll hear a note so sweetly sing
Notes A'n E play easily
More difficult the F'n G

You see, Mandolins are plucking things
With four pairs of Plucking strings
Pluck them once then pluck them twice
And when it' right, it sound's quite nice

But when you get it Plucking wrong
The notes won't fit to any song
So take this adivice from the land of the Thistle
BUY YOURSELF A PLUCKING WHISTLE!

Ian Mandola Steel - Frustrated Plucker 2005



[B][U]

[Jim Garber]

Ian:
No, they are not lutes in any sense. For some odd reason we crazy American manufacturers in thoxse days called more or less flatback mandolins "lutes", at least Weymann did and so did Vega for their cylinderback line. I am not sure why. I would say the bowl backs were more lutes than the others.

The mandolutes have a slightly top and back, probably steam bent which sets them off from some other strictly flattopped instruments.

They are pretty nice instruments prob most similar to Vega cylinders in tone quality. I believe thre was a range of ornamentation but most I have seen were stained maple-backed.

Here is a style 30 (longer fretboard and inlaid tuners) that Gruhn has on their gallery page:
http://www.gruhn.com/gallery/MF3686.jpg

Jim

[Eugene]

Also, a quirk of most things that Weymann branded Mandolute was a soundboard and back plate that extended slightly past the ribs, violin-like. Weymanns are odd ducks. Some I've encountered have abysmally "flabby" tone in old age, and some sound just fine.

[Jim Garber]

Here is what Eugene is talking about:
http://www.thinmanmusic.com/weyms.jpg

Jim

[margora]

They can be quite nice mandolins but I don't think I would use one in a modern mandolin orchestra (projection might be an issue).

[Bob A]

As an aside, Gibson manufactured what they were pleased to call a "Tenor Lute" during the Loar era. Had a body the size of a mandola,and a long neck. What were they thinking?

[mandolooter]

I got my handle from a mandolute and currently have 3. Eugene is right with the tubby sound description at times and they aren't real loud, but they have a very nice tone and are a very well built instrument. Chords with open strings just sing out so sweet and with amazing sustain for a flattopped instrument. Every experienced picker who's laid a hand/pick on one of mine first comment was, "wow, its got a lot of bottom end". They do but its a hard to explain deeper sound. One thing I have noticed is that they record very well and all seem to have a real evenness from string to string. Bracthe, whos a real pro musician, not a hack like me might be able to give us a better and more informed view. She has a lovely Model 30 I believe it is and for those interested a full line of mandolute products. I love mine dearly and my only complaint would be a lack of volume and after getting used to a longer necked modern mando the scale length which is 13" or so.

[mandolooter]

they came in many ethnic varietys...

[Jim Garber]

mandolooter:
Do you know which models you have?
Jim

[mandolooter]

yes, the red one is a 30, black's a 30, and natural is a 20. The main differences are the tuner upgrade which is HUGE BTW and the 20 doesn't have the "violin edge" and bound neck. One thing I have noticed is there grading system wasn't written in stone by any means and I've seen quite a few variations both up and down the scale on the same model #'s. I have a cataloge copy from the 20's and could try an post a copy but its vauge to say the least and has drawings vs. pic's. Of course I don't have my digicam or I'd just shoot a quick shot and post it. Figures when I need it, its gone!

[mandolooter]

oh, 2 other things
1. the tuner description at Thinmans is true...easiest thing to tune I've ever tuned.
2. the black one is for sell but I was waiting till I got my cam back before I listed it. PM me if interested but Im still gonna list it to make sure I comply with the boards policies which I have yet to fully read but have seen a lot of talk about lately.

ok lets make it 3 things...
3.the model number and serial numbers can be found on the top end of the instruments peghead.

[bratsche]

Well, I'm quite the hack myself, when it comes to mandolutes! Yes, I have a nice one - very similar to the one Jim posted a pic of above, but Jeff, I thought it was a style 40 from the description in that brochure you forwarded me. Once again, I'm confused with model numbers! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Anyway, yes, I've put it on one of my t-shirt designs (below).

I can't really comment on the sound of it (what's up with this 'flabby' and 'tubby' stuff, guys?) due to my lack of much to compare it with, mainly. It is pleasing to my ear - no idea about projection, though. But I must confess that if I want to pick up a mandolin, I go for the MidMo first, because of the comfortable factor. The shorter scale makes the Weymann more work to play if I don't take time to get used to it. Also, the fretboard is very low and close to the top, which makes it require a whole different touch.

[trebleclef528]

Gosh.... ask a question and you sure get help on this site.
Thanks to you all for your input.

I guess it's not really something for our orchestra but suffering from the dreaded MAS I'm tempted to get one for myself... the M 30 and 40 look like nice instruments.

Thanks again for all the info and advice.
Ian

(Barbara and I are just getting ready for the Celtic Connections music festival in Glasgow. It's the worlds largest winter festival and some 100,000 visitors are expected over a 3 week period. We are running 4 mandolin workshops and in addition they have given us a stall (because we're a registered charity it won't cost us anything) to Advertise our Mandolin Association.... so hopefully by the end we will have lots more people playing the mandolin.)

[Jim Garber]

Mandolooter and Bratsche (and other Mandolute owners):

I owned one years ago but sold it since I wasn't playing it. Correct me if i am wrong, but the top is not canted (creased) but it is arched.

Ian:
What is the main type of mandolin in your orchestra? Do you have mandy bowlbacks or mostly carved or flat ones?

Jim

[mikeyes]

The Weymann Mandolutes came in a variety of styles, I have a model 35 which is halfway between a 30 and a 40 with more binding and some engraving on the tuners. As everyone else has mentioned, it has a sweet soft sound and is a beautiful instrument. It has a repaired crack in the figured maple back (very common, I might add) which is stable. It is not at all like other American mandolins as it is bigger than the usual Gibson or Martin and looks like a watermelon half <G>
Vintage Instruments (http://www.vintage-instruments.com) in Philadelphia has a Weymann mandolute mandocello version (or a large mandola) which is fascinating.
These intruments are fairly inexpensive for what they are - a high end, high quality mandolin.

[mikeyes]

I just looked at the Vintage Instruments site and they do not list the Weymanns (they have several, or did last week) so if you are interested, you should call them. The woman who runs the shop is a little, well, curt, but she will take the time to describe things for you. It is a great shop and the prices are reasonable.

[Jim Garber]

Mike:
I don;t see that mandola on VI's site in the mandolin area. Any further clues?

Jim

[Jim Garber]

I know Fred who owns the shop and have dealt with him over the years. I assume that you were in the shop and actually played the instrument. More details please.

Jim

[trebleclef528]

Quote: J Garber Jan. 14 2005, 08:27 #
Ian:
What is the main type of mandolin in your orchestra? Do you have mandy bowlbacks or mostly carved or flat ones?

Jim,
At the start in 1999 it was almost entirely Bowlbacks, mainly German (Barbara's influence) and a few Italian.
I would say now that half are bowlbacks including 3 superb Knorr. Those using "flatbacks" are using fairly "high end of the market one's" mainly "Fylde Touchstone" which have a superb sound.

We've recently acquired two superb Hewiga German Mandola's (the half onion shape and extremely hard to come by.. mine was recently restored by Knorr and it's superb) and they are just outstanding.......... needless to say Barbara and I prefer bowlbacks.
Ian

[Arto]

I played a Weymann mandolute at 12th Fret in Toronto in June. It was not cosmetically in best shape, but I liked the sound a lot. Warm, clear, not at all "flabby". I liked the instrument more than many other more expensive modern instruments at the shop.

BTW: Very belated thanks for all those Cafe members who recommended 12th Fret to me when I asked about shops in Toronto, and extra thanks for Eugene for recommending Georgian Bay, too!

Arto

[Eugene]

What beautiful terrain...Now you've got me pining, Arto!

[mikeyes]

I was in the shop about 10 days ago while visiting my son in Philly. They had several Weymanns including a larger one which I only strummed. I think it was a 'cello but you know how big Weymanns are and it could have been a 'dola. It had the same sweet sound of a mandolute but was lower pitched.
They had several instruments in the shop that were not on the web site. It may be that it is not for sale or being repaired. I suggest you just call them and ask.

[Bob DeVellis]

Ahh, the Weymann mandolute. I'd long admired their beautiful lines, quality materials, and fine workmanship. I'd encountered a couple, but they'd had very tough lives. Then I had an opportunity to buy one in very nice shape -- no cracks, separations, neck problems, or other worrisome issues. The strings were ancient, the bridge was not positioned properly, but I saw potential and bought it. I cleaned it up, shined up the frets with steel wool, put on a set of Thomastiks, put the bridge where it belonged, tuned it up and, lo-and-behold, it sounded a good 7% better than it did originally. Pretty much a dog. It was decidedly un-loud, not a bad thing in and of itself. But it sounded muffled or muted, not merely soft. Maybe that's the flabby sound other people referred to. With the original, nasty strings, the treble was far too shrill and the Thomastiks helped remedy that. But the tone -- the presence, if you will -- just wasn't there. Other than its good looks, it had few redeeming qualities (it feels reasonably good in the hands, I'll give it that).

My conclusion is that these little guys are just very variable from example to example. Others describe theirs with enthusiam and I believe what they're saying. I just don't think I was lucky enough to get one of the good ones. And the one I did get falls well below the "less than great" examples I've encountered from other makers. Despite being in great shape, this one didn't sound much better than the broken-down ones I'd tried. It wasn't just their condition, apparently, that was to blame for their lack-luster sound.

Despite its disappointments, I'll probably keep it forever because I paid a bit too much and I'd hate to sell it for a loss or stick someone else with it for what I paid. So, it's mine to admire for its beauty of line, if not tone.

When I read threads that suggest people always talk up the mandolins they own, no matter what, I always think, "Right! ask me about my mandolute." I'm glad that others have found Weymanns that have been more satisfying.

[jasona]

I played a Weymann mandolute at 12th Fret in Toronto in June. It was not cosmetically in best shape, but I liked the sound a lot. Warm, clear, not at all "flabby". I liked the instrument more than many other more expensive modern instruments at the shop.
I played that very one and thought long and hard about getting it. Its a very nice mandolin.

[Darryl Wolfe]

OK..so what did I just accidentally receive that was not what I bid on and won from this guy in Hawaii

It has the fiddle edgew....the figured maple like a pic above by jgarber...wood alternating herringbonish edger binding...straight end to the unbound fingerboard
23076 on the peghead followed by 20 on the other side....bowlback style tuners (plate on back) with metal buttons

[Darryl Wolfe]

it's kinda heavy for its size..ie not real lightly built

[Darryl Wolfe]

like this

[Jim Garber]

OK..so what did I just accidentally receive that was not what I bid on and won from this guy in Hawaii
Darryl:
Please explain... you accidentally received a Weymann mandolute?

Jim

[Darryl Wolfe]

I won this...

link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3773148918&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT)

and received the above (two posts up pic) in the mail today

[bratsche]

Looks like the same instrument to me. What were you expecting to receive? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

bratsche

[Martin Jonas]

I think the second half of Darryl's story is here (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=13;t=21525). It only makes sense to me on reading both threads, but I believe what happened is that he bid on the Weymann specifically for the open tuners shown on Ebay, whereas the one he got has closed tuners. Looking closer, it's indeed not the same instrument -- the one he received has the fiddle-like rim around the edge, which doesn't seem to be on the Ebay photos, and the binding looks different. Have I got that right, Darryl?

That's a strange substitution, but at least it doesn't look like deliberate deception: The instrument you got looks to be higher up the range than the one you bid on, so as long as the condition is similar, it may well have been a better deal. Won't help you, of course, if you only wanted to scavenge the tuners from it, but at least it means that you should be able to sell it on for at least what you paid if the seller won't exchange for the right instrument.

Martin

[Bob DeVellis]

Darryl - The one you got is a dead ringer for mine, aluminum tuner buttons and all.

[bratsche]

Hmm... I see, I think. Though the ebay pictures are more numerous, they are of poorer quality, and we only have the one picture of Darryl's actual received instrument. The former looks to be mahogany, and the latter flamed maple. So to me, from what I've read, it seems as though the one received (Style 20) is a higher quality model than the one pictured!

(Where are you, Mandolooter Jeff?) I believe Jeff said the closed tuners - if those are what are on the received instrument - were a decided upgrade over their open ones. Indeed, they are the only tuners (the closed ones) on Weymann Mandolutes that I've ever read consistent praises for (or even seen personally). So I really don't understand why Darryl was hoping to get the cheaper ones...

Or am I the one who's still confused? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

bratsche

[Jim Garber]

So I really don't understand why Darryl was hoping to get the cheaper ones...
I think he was thinking that they would be the proper tuners for other vintage mandolins, likely Gibsons. The higherned tuners would only work in routed headstocks which Gibsons never used.

Jim

[danb]

They're replacement arrow-end tuners for vintage Gibson A-models..

[bratsche]

So you're saying someone would spend over 200 bucks, plus shipping, to snag a vintage instrument in nice condition, just to strip the tuners off it to use on another vintage instrument (leaving the first one tunerless)? If so, I guess I really do live in a different world... or universe, maybe ;)

bratsche

[Darryl Wolfe]

QUOTE>>So you're saying someone would spend over 200 bucks, plus shipping, to snag a vintage instrument in nice condition, just to strip the tuners off it to use on another vintage instrument (leaving the first one tunerless)? If so, I guess I really do live in a different world... or universe, maybe ;)

bratsche

OK Bratsche..lighten up..I didn't say I would strip them off..but to me...the mando with the tuners on it that are worth $175 alone..makes the $225 I paid for the thing more worth it than $225 for one without them...(on Gibson mandolins, they only appeared on Loar era snakeheads).And...just in case a dire need comes up, I could always replace the ones on the Weymann with some others, that are from the period..I have about 10 sets of teens and '20's tuners...but I have no arrow-end Loar period tuners on hand like the one on the Weymann I bid on. #I hope that clarifies things

dgw

[Darryl Wolfe]

BTW...one of our other cafe member paid about $900 for a screwy banjo mandolin with Loar A-5 tuners on it..so..go figure

[Jim Garber]

Interesting dilemma, Darryl. You got a nicer Weymann but not one with the tuners you wanted. So what will you do? Strange predicament.

Jim

[Darryl Wolfe]

try to get them both at a discount http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[onthefiddle]

Somewhere, in one of my many still unpacked boxes, I have the catalogue of a small old German family firm who will make tuners to your design and specification (plating, engraving, button materials etc...). Their prices were very reasonable when I was last in touch with them.
I'll post their contact details here when I come across them (don't hold your breath though - I've got a pile of work to do before I carry on unpacking).

Jon

[bratsche]

Didn't mean to come off as a "heavy", Darryl, I'm just tryin' to comprehend the situation here. So you are sayin' that Weymann's low-end tuners, that nobody seems to think are near as good as their high end ones, are worth $175 in the current market? Wow! (whistles) I just didn't realize the tuners were the make-or-break part of the deal for you, and thought you got the instrument you did for a pretty decent price, if it's in the condition as stated.

bratsche, still scratching head

[Darryl Wolfe]

thanks Bratsche...I didnt mean to sound heavy either. I'm just now acquiring a Weymann taste too...


Here is the response from the seller

ALoha, I just looked in my closet and holy God the Weymann is sitting right
> here! What did I send you?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Holy God, which one did I send you? I'm so
> sorry, what's your tel. # and I'll call you and work it out and I'll send you
> the Weymann, my fault totally, thank you, Irving

[onthefiddle]

It just occurred to me that a friend sent me the contact details of the tuner maker in an email - so you didn't need to wait so long!
The company I was talking about is:

Ewald Sommer
Rosenhuegel 4,
91088 Bubenreuth
tel.: 0049 9131 24181
fax.: 0049 9131 24182

He also recommended another company, who are very helpful apparently:

Thomas Rubner GmbH
Gewerbepark 16
08258 Markneukirchen
tel.: 0049 37422 2540
fax.: 0049 37422 6000

Hope that helps!

Jon

[Darryl Wolfe]

thanks..I'll check that out

[Darryl Wolfe]

I'm going to post only in the other thread on the rest of this story (Looking for Information...)

[Nalleymon]

1920"s Vintage Weymann Model 25 Mandolute Mandolin
After playing this Mandolin I and others after listening say its projects the complete range Bass and Treble very well its very clear and warm and loud if ya want
The Finger board and frets are set up well
This Mandolin has some scratches and wear but its has allot of years put on her. I'm really happy with the sound and the way it plays There are more beautiful instruments to the eye but the sound and playability don't get much better
The construction is solid that's why they last. Its old growth wood
Its a sweety and a player for recording and concerts

They get allot more expensive but not much sweeter
;-)

Blessed again
PMN

[mathura]

Hi bratsche, I know this is an old post but do you have the serial number of the mandolute in the "Attached Thumbnails" ? It looks like an early one from the decal and it maybe helpful in verifying other serial numbers.