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View Full Version : Mike Seeger's "Old Time Country Mandolin"



s1m0n
Jan-08-2005, 6:09pm
I just got a copy of this, and I'm listening to it for the first time.

And I gotta question.

One of the first things he says is to recommend that OT mandolin should be played on an oval-holed flatback with light strings and low action; using a light or medium pick.

As it happens, that's exactly the kind of beast I have, although I've been moving toward a heavier pick. My question is, however, WHY he makes these recommendations. What does the above fomula get you, and why is that right for OT music?

LKN2MYIS
Jan-08-2005, 6:21pm
Is it possible it is strictly his personal preference that he is giving and making sound like 'law'?

This stuff always interests me. My idols who are musicians
played with 'garbage' instruments (low-end) and made incredible
music.

I would think that if you want to get HIS exact sound, you might follow it, otherwise, like everything else, it is subjective.

soapycows
Jan-08-2005, 9:35pm
Light strings and a lighter pick are great on my martin, but on my gibson A, I have to have j-74s and a heavy pick, otherwise it just doesn't sound right. Also, in an old-time jam, I can't get enough sound without a heavy pick.

s1m0n
Jan-08-2005, 10:31pm
Maybe it's advice designed to make it easier for the noob.

sunburst
Jan-08-2005, 11:10pm
As it happens, I just got home from seeing Mike Seeger perform.
He has been researching, recording, and performing old time and other forms of American music for more years than most people.
If there's an expert, it's probably him.
I'd say he's stating an opinion, but it's an expert opinion.

s1m0n
Jan-08-2005, 11:49pm
I'm green with envy. Was he solo, or with the NLCR?

Did he play much mando, or was he sticking to guitar, banjo & fiddle?

Jon Hall
Jan-09-2005, 1:02pm
In Bob Dylan's autobiography "Chronicles I", he says Mike Seeger is one of the Old Time musicians.

JGWoods
Jan-09-2005, 8:06pm
Only Mike knows why for sure, but I spent an hour or two with him at Old Time Music Camp in Groton MA last fall, where he did a few mando demos and classes. He was playing a beat up Gibson A2z that looked bad, sounded great- loud and sustainy and old oval hole Gibsony at its best. His mando recomendations were more general- old oval holes mostly- he likes the old Gibsons, old Martins, old stuff, and recomends the instruments that make the sound you might hear on an old record.

I had my Rigel G110 at one gathering and he spotted it- came over and took it and played it a bit- I wish I got a picture of him playing a Rigel, just because it was so out of character for him. He liked it well enough, but said fairly strongly that it was wrong for OT music. My take on that is that he didn't like the modern look and knew it would never be seen in an old faded photo from days gone by- so it wasn't really an OT mando. He plays old things in old ways- so I wouldn't expect to hear different.

I played my SS Stewart oval hole from the old days most of the rest of the time as it fit in better- visually. It's like the old Martins in every way except it has koa back and sides. If I beat on it with a light or medium pick I can barely hear it, but a heavy pick seems to deaden it more - so you could say I follow his advice. The lighter pick gives it a little more ability to cut through the mix I think in jams. I could hear the Rigel in a room with 20 people jamming as it barks more.

Over al I doubt it matters much - play the pick/string/mando combo that sounds best to you.

enjoy
jgwoods

sunburst
Jan-13-2005, 1:53pm
I'm green with envy. Was he solo, or with the NLCR?

Did he play much mando, or was he sticking to guitar, banjo & fiddle?
Just got back to this thread, sorry.

He was solo, with the exception of one duet with his wife.
He played only guitar. That was his theme, the history of the guitar in American popular music. He had several different guitars of different types, including a 20s National metal body that I recently went over and set up for him to get the buzzes out of it.
It was a good show. He's a good entertainer who relates well to an audience and is very knowledgable about his subject.

Sellars
May-11-2005, 10:02am
Hi there!

I was wondering what you were thinking about this book/cd?

Is it any good? (perhaps too basic?)

any thoughts would be welcome!

Cider
May-11-2005, 3:32pm
I've seen some photos from the 20's of folks playing old bowl-back mandos. Maybe Mike should advocate those instead of the later A2Zs for that genuine old time sound.

Just kidding of course!

I have a Gibson oval hole from the teens and a Collings MT2. Guess which one I play more! The Collings. It stays in tune, it has proper intonation, radiused fretboard so it feels comfortable and it cuts like a knife. It also blends really nicely. When I play with a fiddle and guitar I feel like the sound fits in like a puzzle piece, whereas the Gibby is sort of mushy and ringy.

Not that I don't love the Gibson. It's a neat old instrument that gets plenty of pick time.

As for picks, I really like the thicker ones. I feel like my tone gets fatter along with the pick thickness. I'm using an ivroid triangle from Greg Boyd's right now.

I use J74s on the Collings and Gibson. Flattops are nice on the old oval holes I think, while the brighter EXPs are nice on the f-holed instruments.

JGWoods, did I sit next to you at Mandolin camp in Groton for one of Carl's classes? You had the funky recorder with that sweet SS Stewert that looked sort of like an old Martin? Nice little mandolin!

Adam Tracksler
May-12-2005, 1:09pm
hey guys. i have the mike seeger book and its rerally good. I think that whatever mando you have is good for playin' whatever you are playing. I have the cheapest of the cheap - the Rover RM75, and half the time, I'm blown away with it....just biding my time until the next 8 stringed honey comes to my doorway. I remember both of you from MCN. Tom, you had the fretless banjo at the OT jam, right? I was the guy with the ipod.

--ad

Cider
May-13-2005, 8:30am
Hey ad,

Yup, I was playing a fretless banjo. I remember you well! iPod Man. How are things?

I really need to pick up the Seeger instructional stuff. Everyone seems to like it.

The cool thing about old time is that you can be real flexible about what type of instrument you're playing. It's not like bluegrass that tends to have a very narrowly defined instrument selection. I can appreciate Seeger's preference for old Gibson A's, but think that if it has 8 strings and is playable then it's good enough for old time music.

Hopefully we can avoid pigeonholing ourselves into certain instruments. It's nice to walk into a jam and see mandolins of all shapes and sizes I think.

Adam Tracksler
May-13-2005, 10:17am
I'm reminded of when I first started playing guitar in Jr. High School. I was convinced that I should get a Les Paul guitar, my reasoning was that with that guitar, I could switch from playing lead to rhythm with the flick of a switch...since that waht the switch said.

My wife and I were watchilg TV the other night and soem old blues dude was shredding on a flying V, the heaviest of heavy metal guitars (IMHO).

It aint the chisel that makes the carpenter!

Tom, get that seeger book, its really good.

JGWoods
May-24-2005, 4:03pm
"JGWoods, did I sit next to you at Mandolin camp in Groton for one of Carl's classes? #You had the funky recorder with that sweet SS Stewert that looked sort of like an old Martin? #Nice little mandolin!"
Yep that musta been little old me. Marantz PMD660 recorder and SS Stewart koa mandolin.
That mandolin is convincing me that the 13"- short scale is a great way to go. Even though I have mighty big hands I like the close reach of the shorties.

and it sounds good to.

Now if I could only remember you...

Sorry for the late reply- I've been out of town for a while and forgot this post.

best
jgwoods

FlawLaw
May-25-2005, 2:30pm
I'm reminded of when I first started playing guitar in Jr. High School. I was convinced that I should get a Les Paul guitar, my reasoning was that with that guitar, I could switch from playing lead to rhythm with the flick of a switch...since that waht the switch said.

My wife and I were watchilg TV the other night and soem old blues dude was shredding on a flying V, the heaviest of heavy metal guitars (IMHO).

It aint the chisel that makes the carpenter!
I agree with this 100% Not that my humble opinion matters. A side note...Kim Simmonds from Savoy Brown plays the blues with one of those Gibson Flying Vs!