Sticky Tuners

[Polecat]

Hi all,

On my Eastman 504 the Tuners, particularly on the D strings, tend to stick, making precise tuning very difficult - I find it works best if I make the strings a bit flat then tune "up" to the correct pitch, but often the force I need to apply to the peg before it will turn means that it suddenly jumps further than it should have done. According to Eastman's website, the tuners are Schallers, so I normally would not expect them to be poor quality. I've tried oiling them, both with very thin easing oil (Ballistol) and a heavier grade penetrating oil (Kluberoil), but neither has helped very much. Has anybody any suggestions what might help?

Thanks

[Marc Berman]

Have you checked the tuners without strings? Are they really sticking? It could be the strings binding in tight nut slots.

[lenf12]

It could also be that the string tension is pulling the tuner post into the bushing enough to cause binding. You have a bit of detective work to do to determine the actual cause before you can resolve the problem. Check out Frank Ford's website: www.frets.com for his diagnostic methods and cures.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Polecat]

Thanks for the replies,
When the string is under tension, the tuners are sticky, but the strings are definitely not binding in the nut (I did the setup myself, using notched feeler gauges of suitable thickness as nut-files (thanks, Rob!!). I read the "Tune up your gears" pages at frets.com, but I haven't found anything that describes my problem - am I missing something?

Polecat

[Ivan Kelsall]

Seriously,have a look at Frank Ford's 'Frets.com.' page on tuners.I followed his instructions re. backing off the main gear screw & both my mandolins tune up like silk. Don't use any thin oil on the tuners as it can seep in between the tuner plate & the headstock wood - been there,done that myself. If the tuners turn freely & easily when unstrung,then it has to be 'something' brought about by the strings. I'm pretty sure that the tuners on both my mandolins are also Schallers.One's 7 years old & the other is 11 years old & i've not had any trouble with either - however that doesn't help you.
Personally,i'd remove the strings & make sure that the tuners are exactly as they should be.Firmly screwed to the headstock,so that string tension can't tend to pull the string post forward. Ensure that the worms & gears have no slackness in them - everything that you can think of. If they're fine,then re-check the nut slots & also the bridge slots.The 'sudden jumping' that you refer to could mean that either the nut or the bridge is initially holding the string back from being in tune,then the string tension overcomes the friction, & they go out of tune,
Ivan
90009

[Polecat]

Today I looked more closely at the tuners (string change time). Having established that I could tell nothing just by looking at them, I completely disassembled the mechanisms, washed the parts in lighter fluid, greased everything with vaseline, and reassembled the tuners. The problem appears to be a slight imprecision in the position of the hole drilled to recieve the collar (if that's the right word, or is it a gromet?) that guides the tuner post on the front of the tuner head - if I drive the collar out, everything moves freely as it should, when I push it back in its hole, the tuner post binds up in the hole in the housing which holds the tuning pegs themselves. As I say, the inaccuracy in the positioning of the hole must be minimal, but I'm not sure how best to go about correcting it (or even establishing which direction I need to shift the collar). I would be grateful for any suggestions.

[DerTiefster]

They are commonly called tuner post bushings or just tuner bushings. I ordered some from Stu-Mac to fit into the bushing-less holes (apparently oversized) in my Stradolin headstock. I'll find out whether I measured correctly when they get here. You might want to wash that vaseline off. It will only cause such dust as migrates into the works to stick there and never leave. Of course, if you want to grow potatoes in you tuners, that's OK.

If the problem is -very- minor, you might be able to ream either the bushings (enlarging them slightly) or elongate the holes for the binding tuner posts, but such things would best be left to someone who knows more than I. Including deciding whether this is even good advice. Things which -sound- mechanically sound don't always produce good sound. (ooooh, a word used with three different meanings in the same sentence.)

addendum: with the bushings dismounted, check the position of the posts in the holes. You may be able to eyeball an offset. If you can't, then you can pretty much trust that they are binding on the side to which the string pulls them. Check which one(s) bind, and you -may- also be able to use some graphite or Tri-Flo in the bushing for that/those tuner(s). Just a suggestion.

[Polecat]

Curiously, after restringing my Mandolin, the tuners now work much better than before, and I am satisfied that however it may be, I seem to have done some good,even though I'm not sure how. Possibly it was just the lubrication - lacking in experience of what correctly adjusted tuners should look like, I may have been hypercritical about the tolerances - certainly the stickiness is now gone, and the instrument is far easier to tune. For the moment, I'll leave the vaseline on - I've been greasing the tuners of my other mandolins for respectively 27 and 15 years, and up till now, it's worked fine.

[Hazelnut]

It's nice when your musical hobbies dovetail neatly into each other.

You wouldn't think that my cornet/trumpet playing would have any bearing on the mandolin... until I decided to use valve oil on the worm shafts of my tuners. Valve oil comes in a little plastic bottle with a neatly tapered tip so you can put a couple of drops of the stuff on with accuracy.

Works a treat too.

I personally wouldn't use Vaseline on open gears as it's a bit of a magnet for dust but, if it works for you, why not?

[mandroid]

The Peg head hole allignment issues get really glaring when the precision alignment,
and mechanical tolerances in the Tuner machines is tighter .


When my 2nd or 3rd hand Mix A5 came here, the retrofitted Waverlies did not work at all
on one of the 2 E string Tuners , so I downgraded to some of Stew Macs lesser tuners , they worked better ..

SM repair-replaced the Waverlies, shipped them back, and I resold them..

[Hazelnut]

Have you checked the tuners without strings? Are they really sticking? It could be the strings binding in tight nut slots.

This post and your reply started ringing bells in my head. One of my E strings just snapped, curious because I'd only restrung the instrument with new D'addario's just the other day.

I replaced the broken string, applying a little graphite to the nut, just in case... but the tuner was still very, very tight. I was quite sure it was like all the rest when unstrung, so I slackened it off, gave the nut a little gentle probing with a teensy, tiny jeweller's screwdriver, reapplied the graphite, restrung - et voila! The tuner feels just as it should now.

Thanks for the tip and for saving my replacement e string. :)