1900's BowlBack and Mandriola?? Not sure. Please Help.

[ChristusEstRex]

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Just purchased these off craigslist. The Bowlback is all glued up in the back and both have screw holes in the headstocks where the guy hung them on a wall. Would it hurt the value to get them restored? Thanks.

[Jake Wildwood]

20s/30s German mandriola is my guess, right on the money 1890s/1900s bowlback. Leaning towards 1890s. Looks like it might have the Wurlitzer headstock.

[ChristusEstRex]

Ok cool, thanks Jake. The bowlback has "PAT'D OCT 26-86" on the tailpiece. Also, the mandriola has brass tuners I polished up and sent its tailpiece to be replated since it was all pitted. Do you know if that would hurt the value? I don't want to restore something I shouldn't. Also, if I restring them what would be the best strings to use? I'm completely new to all this so any feedback is much appreciated.

[Jake Wildwood]

Bowlback: GHS A240s -- 32w to 9 set -- should be fine. The mandriola would probably be best with a set and a half of the same, too.

As far as resto goes: do whatever you like to make them into something you'll enjoy. They're both more valuable as players than as investments. The bowlback, even fixed up and going, would retail around $300. The mandriola -- maybe a bit more, but probably not much.

[ChristusEstRex]

Sweet, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you very much for the advice. I got them for $20 each so I'm glad I made a good investment.

[brunello97]

No disrespect to Mr. Jake or to your intentions, but if you get near 1/3 of that $300 price in trying to flip these you will be walking on water. (Which might still be good scratchola based on a double-sawbuck investment.) These kinds of MOR mandolins are like loaves and fishes relative to the meager demand for them.

Bon chance.

Mick

[Tavy]

Sweet, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you very much for the advice. I got them for $20 each so I'm glad I made a good investment.

$20 each is about the correct current value - maybe $50-75 would be top whack at an auction on a very good day.

Restored value is harder to judge - as Jake says these are players pieces - so the value depends entirely on how they turn out sounding. Be aware that this depends a lot on the skill of the restorer - very easy to end up with something that sounds like c^@p if not done right (by which I mean by someone who's familiar with mandolins). Jake has the advantage that he manages to make even banjo mandolin's sound good :mandosmiley::mandosmiley:

So do it for the love, not the money, and then you won't be disappointed...

The interesting one is the the German mandriola - these are about as desirable as measles in the current market - and yet, the Germans made some pretty decent sounding instruments. It would sound completely different to anything else around as well...

Have fun and let us know how you get on!

[ChristusEstRex]

I'm not looking to sell them any time soon so I'm happy, whether it goes for $30 or $300. I was pleasantly surprised once I got the mandriola tuned up too. I want it to have the octave tuning like it should, but there's not really any mandriola string makers in the country. I might try guitar strings for the lower ones. Any suggestions?

[Jake Wildwood]

Jake has the advantage that he manages to make even banjo mandolin's sound good :mandosmiley::mandosmiley:

So do it for the love, not the money, and then you won't be disappointed...

Yes, yes, my new advertising bit. Heh heh. :D

[Jim Garber]

I want it to have the octave tuning like it should, but there's not really any mandriola string makers in the country. I might try guitar strings for the lower ones. Any suggestions?

Are you talking about tuning it down to one octave below mandolin. Std tuning for these is usually the same as mandolin and you would just use 1 1/2 mandolin sets. One alternative would be to string the two lower courses with one lighter gauge string so that you would have a 12 string guitar effect on the lower strings. I am not sure about tuning the whole thing down an octave. I suppose you could try it but you prob have to recut the nut and bridge and depending on the scale length might have top use fairly heavy gauge strings to go to a lower tuning.

In any case, I would be careful with restringing in that with 12 strings there could be quite a bit of tension.

[Tavy]

Jim, I have seen it suggested, that the "correct" way to string these is with one string in each course an octave below the others. It always seemed highly unlikely to me though that you would be able to achieve that on the G course at the very least. Stringing an octave above on the G and D courses would be easy though, and might sound interesting?

[Jim Garber]

All the ones I have seen have just been strung as a mandolin but triple-strung. I was suggesting more of a tiple-like stringing, with some strings one ocatve higher (not lower):

GgG DdD aaa eee or gGg dDd aaa eee -- just using the a strings for the octave g's and the e strings for the octave d's.

of course, if you want to play with it you could also have lower octave strings on the two higher courses as well. might be a good way to make a lot of noise.

I didn't know there was a "correct" way for any of these.

[EdHanrahan]

... suggesting more of a tiple-like stringing ...

As as recent tiplizer, I've observed that intonation of the octave strings seems to be more of an issue at shorter scale lengths than it normally is on 12-string guitar, with which most of us are familiar. Martin's tiples have no built-in compensation - the saddle is a fret - and sound fine in 1st position but get a bit sour as you go up the neck. (Solutions for tiple intonation have been discussed here recently).

My personal opinion is that 12-string guitars don't usually get far enough out of tune to be offensive, just interesting. YMMV!

OTOH, the mandriola's bridge may be wide enough to add some intonation adjustment (as Jake W. did on a bowlback bridge that he made for me several years back).