Vintage vs Modern: A-style, oval hole mandos

[MikeVB]

Thinking about getting back into the mandolin after a 5-6 year abstinence in favor of clawhammer banjo and more guitar.

I'm interested in an A-style, oval hole. Since I prefer the woody, dry tone of "good" vintage guitars, I thought about buying an old Gibson A snakehead since the prices are coming down.

But just realized a lot of those are shorter necked and scaled than say a Weber Absaroka or Collings, etc. would be.

What differences in playability and tone/sound could be generalized about the scale lengths and other structural differences?

[sunburst]

As I see it, the advantages of new instruments are new glue joints, new finish, warranty, modern neck shape/length/truss rod, accurate frets, that sort of thing. I think old Gibson A-style mandolins are a real bargain if an oval hole mandolin is what you want. What other quality "vintage" instruments are so reasonably priced on the market? So the advantage of buying old is value, IMO.
As for playability, those who like the chunky necks of the older Gibsons can get them set up to be very playable, if not extremely well intonated. Those who prefer more modern necks, with access to more frets and a slimmer profile may prefer new.

[Ed Goist]

Mike, there is no difference in scale length between vintage-style and modern-style oval hole mandolins. The bridge sits further south on the vintage-style oval hole mandolins because of their lower-fret (usually 12th fret) neck join.

[MikeVB]

Mike, there is no difference in scale length between vintage-style and modern-style oval hole mandolins. The bridge sits further south on the vintage-style oval hole mandolins because of their lower-fret (usually 12th fret) neck join.

Gotcha. So, I would assume that would result in a different tonal character due to the location of bridge on the top?

[Jim Garber]

But just realized a lot of those are shorter necked and scaled than say a Weber Absaroka or Collings, etc. would be.

They are shorter-necked, meaning that the neck joins the body at a lower fret. but the scale lengths are actually the same as most modern instruments. The shorter neck will put the bridge further back on the top of the instrument.If you are talking about getting a snakehead then the necks are slimmer than the earlier pre-truss-rod models.

The main difference, as Mr. Hamlett noted, is whether you like the sound of the older Gibsons. Affordable Loar era mandolins are oval holed with transverse bracing. Modern makers tend toward f-holes and F5-length necks even on the A models. Many of the makers who do make oval hole A models use either longer necks and/or x-bracing which gives a brighter tone. There are some makers who have made oval holes to 1920 Gibson specs but they are few and far between.

[MikeVB]

The main difference, as Mr. Hamlett noted, is whether you like the sound of the older Gibsons. Affordable Loar era mandolins are oval holed with transverse bracing. Modern makers tend toward f-holes and F5-length necks even on the A models. Many of the makers who do make oval hole A models use either longer necks and/or x-bracing which gives a brighter tone. There are some makers who have made oval holes to 1920 Gibson specs but they are few and far between.

That's my question re: what is/are general sound differences. I've only played modern mandos, mostly f-holed. Sadly, there's nowhere to try any vintage Gibsons around here, so I'd have to risk buying one hearing-unheard and sight-unseen.

[Jack Roberts]

That's my question re: what is/are general sound differences. I've only played modern mandos, mostly f-holed. Sadly, there's nowhere to try any vintage Gibsons around here, so I'd have to risk buying one hearing-unheard and sight-unseen.

Hi, Mike:

Could I suggest that you don't buy a vintage Gibson sight unseen? I own a few vintage Gibsons, and have driven hundreds of miles or waited several years prior to buying in each case. There are potential problems with old Gibsons that you should go into eyes wide open when buying. (cracks, broken tone bars and sunken tops just to name a few.)

As John and Jim state, vintage oval As have their own sound: they also have a lot of variability. You may not find it the woody dry tone that you seek

Having said that, an oval A Gibson is a great choice for someone expanding from clawhammer banjo.

[peter.coombe]

Good advice. Vintage Gibsons vary enormously so play before you buy or risk disappointment. Having said that, there are some really nice ones around if you can find them, and they are good value.

Many makers nowadays move the neck forewards so the crosspiece is at the 14th or 15th fret, but as soon as you start moving the neck and bridge foreward, or raise the fingerboard, the sound changes. It becomes a hybrid sound with some of the characteristics of an oval hole and F hole mandolin. X bracing does not make a mandolin sound brighter. The difference between the cross brace and an X brace is much more subtle than that. Is difficult to put into words, but briefly the sound seems to be a bit cleaner and more even across the strings. I make them with the cross piece at the 12th fret like the Gibsons, but with X bracing becasue I prefer the sound of an X. The dry vintage tone takes time to develop, you won't hear it in a new mandolin, but given enough time and playing it will come. As John has already said, a modern mandolin will give you new joints, accurate intonation, warantee etc, but I can also get a much more consistently high quality sound than the vintage Gibsons. I do have one of the better sounding vintage Gibsons (1918), and there is no contest when comparing sound. The new ones win easily.

[Jack Roberts]

Good advice. Vintage Gibsons very enormously so play before you buy or risk ..... I do have one of the better sounding vintage Gibsons (1918), and there is no contest when comparing sound. The new ones win easily.

I dunno, Peter. I haven't heard your 1918, but my 1918 A-1 (1917 according to Spahn) has got to be one of the best sounding mandolins ever! I paid a premium price for it, even though it looks ugly and is really beat up. I paid more than some museum pieces were selling for less in order to get that vintage A sound. My Coombe mandola is a much nicer instrument all around, though...

[MikeVB]

I dunno, Peter. I haven't heard your 1918, but my 1918 A-1 (1917 according to Spahn) has got to be one of the best sounding mandolins ever! I paid a premium price for it, even though it looks ugly and is really beat up. I paid more than some museum pieces were selling for less in order to get that vintage A sound. My Coombe mandola is a much nicer instrument all around, though...

Agreed. In my experience with guitars if you try enough vintage ones to find the one that speaks to you a guitar built in the last 50 years cannot compete. And I've played some high dollar guitars, and waded through many, many vintage dogs as well.

[Jack Roberts]

One final point: a mandolin made by a 1st tier small builder, someone like Peter, is not going to be a disappointment, and you've got a living builder standing behind his or her work. A vintage Gibson is a great thing to have, but you've got to choose wisely, or you may end up paying for a luthier to fix things for you (this was my experience with my first Gibson, so it wasn't such a great bargain.)