Bridge Mass

[pmadison]

What is the general consensus about the mass of a mandolin bridge, especially if one prefers the lows rather than the highs of the tone?
Is more mass (larger, more bulk) better or should the bridge be petite like a violin bridge?

[sunburst]

I think that, for each mandolin and each player, there is an optimum bridge mass (and internal damping) range. Some like bridges that are heavier and some like bridges that are lighter, some mandolins respond better to heavier or lighter bridges.
For a given type of mandolin, there is a more-or-less traditional bridge size and material. If we diverge too much from that, we may change the sound. We might like it better or we might like it less, but we no longer sound "traditional", so that's the first question; what sound do we want?

[Pete Summers]

Frank Ford over at Frets.com recommends a super light mandolin bridge for better volume: http://frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/Mandolin/LtMandoBr/ltmandobr.html

Though I'm not a luthier, I did follow his instructions for "honeycombing" the bridge on my antique Regal mandolin and it made a substantial increase in volume. I can't discern any change in tone, but the volume was definitely boosted.

On my fiddles I've found that the lighter the instrument, the better the volume (not to mention ease of playing). I routinely decrease the mass by removing those heavy ebony chin rests, tailpieces, etc. and replacing them with carbon fiber models. Seems to work on the violin, so I'd expect it would work on mandolins too, though I realize they are completely different beasts.
:)

[Pribar]

Bridgemas comes just before Christmas this year doesn't it?:grin:



/sorry I will shut up and go sit in the corner now:redface:

[Willie Poole]

The thing I would suggest you do is make two or more bridges of diferent thickness and try them all and see which one comes closest to the tone you want...Myself I don`t worry about loudness because when playing with a band using a sound system I can adjust the mics to get louder, also can adjust them to get a different sound but only to a degree....People on here have tried different types of bridges and ones that are made from different woods, not every bridge suits everyone so its a trial and error thing....

Good luck....Willie

[Ivan Kelsall]

John Hamlett /Willie have the correct idea (IMHO).I think that for each mandolin,there will be an optimum bridge mass that will allow the string vibrations to transmit to the mandolin top to produce the best volume/tonal properties.The combinations of bridge thickness/ height & physical mass are so many that you could carry out a great number of experiments in order to determine which is the best one for each instrument.The well known mandolin player Red Henry,spent a lot of time making one piece bridges of many shapes & sizes to do just that. www.dunwellguitar.com/SolidBridge/SolidBridge2.htm,
Ivan

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Seems like the OP simply wants more bass frequencies in his mandolin. I would guess that a heavier bridge tends to absorb high frequencies, which might give the impression of more lows, no? Other than that, my advice would be to get out of the bathroom.

[pickngrin]

Seems like the OP simply wants more bass frequencies in his mandolin. I would guess that a heavier bridge tends to absorb high frequencies, which might give the impression of more lows, no? Other than that, my advice would be to get out of the bathroom.

Gotta disagree on that one - I get much more bass resonance practicing in there. All that tile and linoleum adds perfect reverb...

[David Houchens]

oops

[David Houchens]

I would probably examine the size of your F holes first. As for the bridge, if you started with a slightly over sized bridge, and very slowly removed thickness/ height from the bridge base and thickness from the saddle until it either produces the responce you are looking for, or it starts in the other direction on a given mandolin.

Then maybe for future reference, use this mandolins weight, grads, etc... compared to the weight of this bridge. Not a perfect science but may get you in the desired range quicker.

[Kevin K]

you mentioned size of f holes? explain please

Heard somewhere that on Gibson goldrush and lawson model, they bound the existing fhole cutout and result in a more punchy bass tones, believe everything else was same and that was only difference structural wise. Is that so?

[David Houchens]

With alot of other possibles. I have always found narrower F hole to produce a more bassy effect. A good friend of mine had a Doyle Lawson with bound F holes and ended up selling it because of "too much bottom end".
When I string up a new mandolin in the white, I start opening up the F holes until I get the desired E string I want, and then a little more to compensate for the finish mellowing it.
When I start out this procedure, the Fholes are a good bit undersized. The bass responce and chop are really booming.
Of coarse this is just my personal findings.
You might try binding the F holes lightly to give it a try.

[Tavy]

you mentioned size of f holes? explain please

Heard somewhere that on Gibson goldrush and lawson model, they bound the existing fhole cutout and result in a more punchy bass tones, believe everything else was same and that was only difference structural wise. Is that so?

Yes, reducing f-hole size will increase the bass response - but at the expense of balance and very likely volume - plus you have to make a dramatic difference to hole size to effect the response much. Oh and the result may sound "tubby": if that's what you want then go and buy an oval hole mandolin instead ;)

Frankly I wouldn't even think about such changes - much better to trade in for a mando you do like the sound of!

BTW, no one has mentioned string choice - heavier gauges and/or flatwounds will produce a darker tone - while light gauges and PB tend towards a brighter tone - something that could be interpreted as less bass.

With regard to bridges, I find bipedal bridges more "definite" in tone, monopod bridges perhaps brighter. The only time I tried an ultra-lightweight Red Henry style bridge (in ebony and bipedal) I found it had bags of volume and clarity, but was too bright/harsh for my tastes. Much of what you find will depend a lot on the instrument though, not to mention personal preference.

Tricky isn't it? ;)

[Kevin K]

Can you and if so, how would you bound an f -hole on a finished mandolin

[David Houchens]

The binding would have to be shaped to fit and thicknessed to match the top at the F holes. As a test run, I would use hide glue setting the binding as flush as you can. I would bind each hole with 4 separate pieces. Any glue on the top can be cleaned with warm water. If this gives you the sound you want, I would remove the binding carefully, lightly sand the finish off the inner edge of the F hole and reglue with hide glue.
I have used hide glue to rebind older instruments using cellulose binding. I don't know about plastic/ABS type bindings.

[Willie Poole]

On one mandolin I cut a small piece of plastic, much like a button, and installed it in the larger opening in the treble F hole and I thought it gave me a sound of more bass....I kept it on there for about six months and then one day I saw that it had fallen out and I don`t know where it went but I believe that sometimes we just think the sound changes because we want it to, I didn`t realize it was missing so it must not have made enough difference to matter...

I have read on here that some picker covers the freble F sound hole with tape and he likes it that way so I guess we should try some things to see what differences we can manufactor, after all if no one tries things how can we ever improve them? Some things will work on some mandolins and won`t work on another one....Thats just the way it is.....

Willie

[David Houchens]

The Doyle Lawson Gibson I am familiar with has very, very thin F holes through the long streches, not just the round ends. I heard this mandolin and it was very bassy. My friend didn't want to hear this (The sound didn't change just because he wanted it to) ending in him selling the mandolin. The F holes in this mandolin were less than half the size I see in most mandolins.
Sometimes thing do make a difference whether we want them to or not.

[Leroy]

You can experiment using a small piece of foam rubber to change the size of your F holes. This is a good way to fine tune sound chamber if your instrument seems to favor the treble end too much.

88340

I kept reducing the foam size till I liked the tone balance, then moved it to the top of the F hole where it is covered by the pick guard.

http://www.leroybeal.net/mandolins/rm100a/modifiedroguerm100amandolin08.html

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Gotta disagree on that one - I get much more bass resonance practicing in there. All that tile and linoleum adds perfect reverb...

pickngrin,
you're right, perfect reverb. But at all times, as a general rule, soft materials absorb high frequencies, hard materials don't, especially tiles. (Unless we are talking about concrete and wood, which behave a bit more complicated.)
Henry