History of the Geib Musical Instrument Case Company

[Loudloar]

Lots of us own Gibson mandolins and other pre-war instruments that came with cases built by G&S Co. (also known as Geib & Schaefer, or Geib, Inc.) For like-minded case fanatics, I have managed to put together a brief history of the company. http://kirtleymusic.home.comcast.net/geib.htm

I welcome comments and additional documentation of the evolution of Geib cases.

Regards,
Steve

[almeriastrings]

Well done. I enjoyed reading that. A lot of fascinating snippets in there.

[Christian]

Wonderful article, Loudloar, i've learned tons of things. Thanks for sharing.

[Joe Spann]

Great job Steve!

I forwarded your URL to a few other Gibson enthusiasts....

Joe Spann

[MikeEdgerton]

Excellent. Are you looking for pictures of Geib cases?

[pfox14]

Gotta love the Music Trade Review archives. Loaded with tons of information and all FREE.

[Loudloar]

Are you looking for pictures of Geib cases?
I'm interested in photos of examples that can be precisely dated, especially in transitional eras so we can see when various features change. I only included a few photos, but I have large collection of photos and own a number of G&S cases.

Potentially I'd like to do the same thing for Lifton, Harptone, and a few others, although I haven't found the same wealth of information on those companies.

If you want an education in pre-war cases, look here:
http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/1449/Vintage-cases-for-old-Martins-30-s-40-s

Steve

[Ken Waltham]

873708737187372873738737487375873768737787378I have a very unusual, and I think very cool F5 mandolin case. It is rectangular, with brown exterior and a reddish marroon interior. Two long interior pockets, somewhat remminicient of a Loar F5 case, but, with lids. This is one of my favourite F5 cases I have ever owned, but, I do not know what it is. I feel that it is 1940's, must have been a Gibson case, for the simple reason, only an F5 will fit in it, and I don't know who else would have been making an F5.
The latches are spring loaded, like a 50's Lifton case, the "California Girl" case. This could mean it is newer???
I will enclose pictures, and look forward to your opinion. I commonly keep my Loar in it.
Thanks, Ken

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, well for what it's worth this Geib case came to me with a 1918-26 Style 1 Martin uke that my late Step-father owned. He got the uke in the 20's used and I'm pretty sure the case might be later.

[AlanN]

Did Geib make the brown 50's case?

[Loudloar]

Mike, Yes the uke case is later. The medallion says "Economo" and my research showed that name was trademarked in 1948. Otherwise, judging by the fittings, one would be tempted to think it was older.

Ken, Yes I've see that mandolin case in earlier discussions. It's quite a gem. It's clearly not Geib. At first I thought it might have been made by a briefcase company. But on second thought it is probably made by a company that builds horn cases. They often have that kind of lip, and the fold of lining over the hinge area. If you start searching for post-war trumpets you might eventually find something similar. That still might not identify the manufacturer but it could lead to something. I am thinking it was a one-of-a-kind custom order from a horn case company. To me it looks post-war, and the Presto latches are similar to a 1950 Presto advertisement:
http://vintageadsandbooks.com/presto-lock-company-vintage-1950-luggage-large-button-locks-ad-s350.html

Steve

[Ken Waltham]

Thanks, Steve. It clearly looks like the lock assembly in the lower left picture of the 1950 advertisment. It has the round, side sliding button that releases the latch, and the key hole next to it. It says "Presto" on the key that is with the case. Strange that it is made for an F5, isn't it?

[j. condino]

Great article. Here is a snapshot from a tweed Geib trio in the shop last summer- my favorite cases ever made.

j.
www.condino.com

[NAS]

That's great information Steve, many thanks. I now know who made the case my early 1920's Majestic tenor banjo is in as it has a diamond on the accessory box lid.

Neil

[Loudloar]

Nice shot of the tweed cases. Notice the different handle positions. The rightmost one has the traditional handle location straddling the lock. The other two have a higher handle position, as seen on most Lifton cases but also some Geib's. The first version causes the case to be carried parallel to the ground, the second option makes the case hang at about forty-five degrees. Makes you wonder if Geib deliberately changed specifications or if it depended on who worked that shift.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=87441&d=1338737984

Steve

[Joe Spann]

Steve,

As noted in my earlier post, I forwarded several serious Gibson experts a link to your website. One of them, my good friend Frank Schoepf had these comments, which I thought you would enjoy reading.

From Frank:
Very nicely done article that covers the G&S and Geib products very well. I did notice one item not covered. There are late thirties Geib, Inc banjo cases that are branded "Durabilt" on the bottom but are not of the "KantKrak" construction. These cases are keratol covered three-ply basswood construction very similar to but somewhat less expensive than the "MastrKraft" line. The ones I've seen had a leather covered handle and were lined with green flannel. I do not know if these were ever used by Gibson.

Joe Spann

[Loudloar]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for your comments, and to Frank for his input.

He is absolutely correct regarding Durabilt cases. I have a feeling that only violin cases were ever made using the KantKrak construction. (I believe the KantKrack process consisted of layers of burlap and resin of some type, using heat to cure. Sort of the Carbon Fiber of it's day.) The Durabilt description on my webpage is a direct quote from a G&S advertisement - and we all know how accurate advertising can be. I'll have to add a note clarifying this issue.

I'm always glad for more details to flesh out this interesting story.

Steve

[Loudloar]

Ken, Back to your mystery mandolin case.

Here's a 1952 Martin saxophone case that's VERY similar to your mandolin case. It might even be roughly similar exterior dimensions. No maker identified but could be Lifton: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINT-Martin-Tenor-The-Martin-from-1952-Totally-OVERHAUL-Museum-Quality-/330734210826?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d014b8f0a

Here's a discussion of 1950's Lifton trumpet cases with pictures that are somewhat similar. http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f140/1950s-olds-trumpet-case-pictures-details-56697.html

So, I'm thinking maybe. . . late '40's Lifton?

Steve

[Ken Waltham]

I haven't looked at your articles yet, but, my instinct has always been a late 40's Lifton. Presto key though....
I will enjoy looking at your articles. Thanks so much for your interest.
Ken

[Joe Spann]

I have a feeling that only violin cases were ever made using the KantKrak construction. (I believe the KantKrack process consisted of layers of burlap and resin of some type, using heat to cure. Sort of the Carbon Fiber of it's day.) Steve

Steve,

Geib & Schaefer also built tenor banjo cases using the KantKrak construction.

Here's the patent (1669266) for the process:

http://www.google.com/patents/US1669266?printsec=abstract&dq=patent+1669266&ei=Bt_NT5GCHujh0wG6qqGlDA#v=onepage&q=patent%201669266&f=false

Joe Spann

[Loudloar]

Thanks Joe for the patent. It appears to require very complicated molds. It uses fabric. (The examples I've seen look like burlap.) It uses "sizing" which is probably not the starch we think of for sizing cloth, but rather certain chemicals and rosins of the sort that are used in paper processing. It doesn't clearly say it uses heat, but it uses the words "pressing" and "ironing" and "drying". I also found a guitar case that is stamped KantKrack. It's halfway down this page: http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/1449/Vintage-cases-for-old-Martins-30-s-40-s?page=2#.T85WlsVKVRU

So it appears that G&S did build a variety of KantKrack cases. Their 1928 announcement of the Durabilt brand says it would use the KantKrack construction, but we've seen later Durabilt cases of wood shell construction.

Steve

[Darryl Wolfe]

Excellennnnnnnnnt

[uncle ken]

I have a couple of these brown and pink F5 cases. One has the Geib badge inside.

8755887559

[Loudloar]

Ken, That's a cool case. Any way to date it? Must be early 1950's? Isn't that the same type as the famous Bill Monroe case?

There are similar brown & pink Geib-badged cases of that era for Les Pauls. We usually think of Lifton as the manufacturer of these "California Girl" cases, and they probably did build most of them. Can you believe that some of those Les Paul Lifton cases sell in the neighborhood of $5,000? That's not for the guitar, boys & girls, just for the case.

Steve

[uncle ken]

I don't have any way to date the case, I got it without the F5 inside. The other one I have looks the same but no badge. Too bad I can't convert them to a Les Paul case.

[Michael Eck]

Always been curious about the pronunciation. Gibe or Geeb?

[f5loar]

the brown/pink case like that one first appeared with the F5 in 1949 and continued until 1963. Monroe's case was from 1963.
You could also order them with the F12 and later on the A5 and EM200. Only the first few years had the GEIB tag on the inside.

[houseworker]

There's a couple up for sale on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-50s-Gibson-Mandolin-Case-/130708046972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6ece847c) at the moment. NFI

[Darryl Wolfe]

I don't have any way to date the case, I got it without the F5 inside. The other one I have looks the same but no badge. Too bad I can't convert them to a Les Paul case.

I think Tommy's dating is about right. I do know that the very earliest one's had the equal length pockets like shown in your picture. At some point the bass side pocket got longer, and that continued over when they changed to black with yellow lining.

[f5loar]

Right you are Darryl the bottom pocket got longer towards the end of the brown/tan cases around mid 1963. Monroe's was still the short one. And then around early 1964 there were a few rare transition cases that had black exterior and the hot pink interior and then they went to the black with yellow/orange until the end of 1969. It would be easier to write a book about the changes in Loars than the changes Gibson did to their F5 cases from 1922 to 2012.

[uncle ken]

I think that 750 price on those for sale might be a stretch. I listed mine here for less that half of that and didn't get much action.

[f5loar]

For those that may not understand what Darryl and I was talking about the longer pocket here is a good example from 1965 showing the black/yellow/orange case with the longer pocket on ebay with a really nice A5 in it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Gibson-A-5-cherry-sunburst-mandolin-/140768546737?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c6758fb1
I think the $750 is a high end price but he does entertain reasonable offers. I would think half that would move pretty quick if in that good of condition. These cases are more of a "cool" factor than a really good case for a vintage F5. They don't offer that much protection, wear out pretty easy and the mandolin flops around inside it.

[Django Fret]

Hi Steve,

Great article! I just bought an electric violin that came in a Geib case and found your article in a google search. Would you be interested in some pictures of it for your documentation efforts? It also has some slight damage to one corner so you can see the burlap under the skin and might be of interest to anyone wanting to know more about the Durabilt process.

Michael, I also found out that it is pronounced "Gibe" (Guy-B) according to one source.

[pfox14]

Always been curious about the pronunciation. Gibe or Geeb?

I always pronounced it Geeb

[Loudloar]

Thanks for the comments, Django Fret. Yes, I'd be interested in pixs of your case. My email is at the bottom of the Geib History webpage.

The construction method is actually the "Kant Krack" process, and was used on Durabilt brand cases, which were a lower-price version of Kank Krack cases.

Steve

[Django Fret]

Steve, hopefully here are some pics if I did this right.

9500395004950059500695007950089500995010

Let me know if you need any other angles or ones with a higher resolution.

[fatt-dad]

haven't finished yet - taking a break. I did laugh at this quote (as if mandolins and guitars were not "musical instruments"):

"The province of the enterprise at the start was confined to manufacturing of canvas cases for guitars and mandolins, and before the expiration of six months the scope of the business was expanded to include also the manufacturing of leather cases for musical instruments."

f-d

o.k. now I'm done. That was very interesting! I need to go check my Gibson guitar case (1930) and see if it has that diamond!

[Tobin]

The construction method is actually the "Kant Krack" process, and was used on Durabilt brand cases, which were a lower-price version of Kank Krack cases.

Steve

Sorry to revive such a long-dead thread, but I have a few questions for you, Steve, if you happen to come across this.

I recently purchased an old fiddle in a Durabilt case. I haven't taken photos of the case by itself, but here's a photo of the fiddle in the case (small resolution, sorry). It's a black case with purple cotton(?) interior. One interior storage compartment (no diamond on the lid) and one original bow holder in the lid. The bottom is marked with "Geib Inc. Durabilt" in an oval, and it does seem to have the Kant Krack construction with the burlap showing through a worn spot. No evidence of an interior Geib medallion.

I can post detailed photos if needed. But my question is on the year range that this case would have been built. From the info on your site, it looks like Durabilt cases started in 1928, but the "Geib Inc." brand wasn't used until 1937. So it's safe to assume this is post-1937. But do you know how long after that black cases would have been made in the Durabilt line, under "Geib Inc."? Did it end with WWII?

It does look very similar to the violin cases in the 1939 Montgomery Wards catalog on your site, though I can't read the descriptions well enough to tell if this case would be one of them.

[Loudloar]

Hi Tobin,

Your thinking on the age of your case is correct. I don't know exactly when Geib discontinued the Kant Krack or Durabilt cases but it was apparently in the early to mid 1940's. In early 1942 the government instituted restrictions on materials in manufacturing. Geib also began working on military contract items sewn out of canvas. They continued to build cases throughout the war but probably cut back production, and it's possible they closed the Kant Krack department during that time.

I also have a Facebook group on Vintage Instrument Cases where we discuss all sort of topics related to old cases. https://www.facebook.com/groups/vintagemusicalinstrumentcases/

Steve

[Phil Goodson]

I think the original pronunciation was with a hard G and close to rhyming with "pipe".

[Loudloar]

Yes, as said earlier Geib is pronounced "Gybe". I've interviewed several members of the Geib family, so there's no disputing the correct pronunciation.

Steve
http://www.stevekirtley.org/geib.htm
https://www.facebook.com/groups/vintagemusicalinstrumentcases/

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Yes, as said earlier Geib is pronounced "Gybe". I've interviewed several members of the Geib family, so there's no disputing the correct pronunciation.

Steve
http://www.stevekirtley.org/geib.htm
https://www.facebook.com/groups/vintagemusicalinstrumentcases/

Absolutely, especially since the name is of German origin.

[darylcrisp]

extremely interesting article, thanks for bringing it back to the top T.

d

[dustyamps]

This Geib Inc. Masterkraft case houses my Kalamazoo mandolin banjo.

[dustyamps]

These 2 cases are identical on the outside but have a different purple material and design inside.

[dustyamps]

Here is a beautiful Geib red line case from the 1930's.

[Loudloar]

Here is a beautiful Geib red line case from the 1930's.
The interior color is described in Gibson catalogs as "American Beauty." No doubt the name was derived from the famous American Beauty Rose.

Steve

[tree]

I need to reattach a piece of covering to the underside of the handle on the (original?) case for my '21 A and I'm wondering which adhesive would be appropriate?

The handle itself is metal (steel) and the covering is thin, probably not real leather, but I don't know what sort of synthetic material it is.

I understand I should clean both surfaces well, the steel is no problem. I may just lightly abrade the glue surface of the covering material to remove traces of old adhesive.

Would a very thin coat of something like Shoe Goo work, or should I mix a tiny batch of epoxy?

[Loudloar]

Clark,

Epoxy isn't the right stuff and Shoe Goo is too thick. Contact cement is what you want. You can buy a small bottle of solvent-based contact cement. Normally I recommend latex-based contact cement for cases as the solvent can be damaging to an instrument's finish but this is a small repair and actually outside of the case.

On a prewar case the covering and handles like this are Keratol or other brand of imitation leather. Learn more about the history of this material half way down this page: http://www.stevekirtley.org/other.htm

You could repair with Tolex, which is the modern equivalent. You might find some Naugahyde type vinyl at your local fabric store that would work. I wouldn't recommend this stuff to cover an entire case, but it may be fine for a handle. Better yet, you could use genuine leather. (Small pieces are available at a local Tandy Leather or maybe a hobby shop.) Your handle probably looks like the picture below. It's made of two metal parts, an inside and an outside that are each wrapped with covering then riveted together near the ends. You could remove the rivets, use contact cement to glue covering onto both parts, then reassemble and replace the rivets. I've done this procedure and it's not complicated. Any leather/Tolex/vinyl you use would need to be thin.

Hope that helps,
Steve

151794

[Timbofood]

Just a question Steve, do you think "Barge" cement is too thick too? I understand the contact cement use but, I'm simply curious.

[Loudloar]

I haven't used Barge cement. It is apparently a type of contact cement and used with leather. Seems like it should be fine, but I can't say from personal experience.

Steve

[g&s]

<Removed by Moderator. Please read the Posting Guidelines (https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/faq.php)>

191835

[Loudloar]

This discussion started several years ago. Here's an update.
The current link for my Vintage Case History is: http://www.stevekirtley.org/vintagecases.htm
And the Facebook group where we discuss vintage cases all day long is: https://www.facebook.com/groups/vintagemusicalinstrumentcases
Regards, Steve