Bad Nut?

[nancejo]

My mandolin has a tinny sound with certain chords. I have narrowed it down to chords that leave the "A" course open. If that course is fretted somewhere, it sounds ok. My guess is that there is something wrong with the nut for that pair of strings. I tried scraping with a knife to see if an obstruction is there, but it didn't help.

Is this a nut problem? What is it and how would I fix it?

Thanks.

[bmac]

I doubt that it is the nut... even a poorly cut nut will normally not cause such a Vibration,,, I would suggest that it might be something between the nut and the tuners or from the sttng on a tuner itself.... I have had a string cause a buzzing because I didn't cut the extra string off short enough so that it buzzed when contacting another string or tuner. In another case I had a short wire attached to a tuner which I had forgotten about.
To find the vibration touch every metal part of the heatstock Tuners, strings, even the coordinate rod, truss rod, truss rod nut and cover. do them one at a time and when the buzzing stops you have found the cause. the best way is to do it is by touch and sound, your vision won't tell you much in searching for a buzz.

The nut may, or may not, ba a problem but I very much doubt that it is causing the buzz.

[bmac]

Of courese I should have mentioned that you pluck the offending string while touching the various parts on the headstock, etc. the buzzing wills stop when you touch the part causing the vibration.

[sunburst]

A buzz (or "zing") on an open string that does away when the string in fretted points to the nut. Usually, the slot in the nut is too low allowing the open string to buzz against the first fret.

[bmac]

If the problem is a low nut slot you can test it by slipping a tiny piece of typing paper under the string in the offending string nut slot. That will normally raise the nut slot (and the string) a hair which may be enough to stop any buzzing due to low cut nut slot. When you find the cause ask again if you need to. The fix is usually quite simple.

[the padma]

Me xpcted this thread to start off with..."So the bartender land over and said..."

Try the paper or even thin card stock under the strings thing...

and not just at the nut...also try it under the bridge....idea being to determine if the string is sitting too low.

still there... then use a straight edge that will span 3 frets to check if it lays flat or rocks...if its rocking....then there is a high spot on that fret....file it down in that spot.

If you still gotts the situation ever after dampening everything between the nut and the tuner and you have used the card stock and there are no problems with a high fret...you may be experiencing a "wolf note" This is wear the resonance of the box happens to be tuned to the A 440 freek~wince-ie*...tune it down or up 1/2 note...If its gone but reappears when tuned back to A440 or if its still there....in ether case, take it to a loofer who can start the trouble shooting process.


blessings


* ~ A 440 freek~wince-ie go here (http://www.luthierforum.com/index.php?/topic/10451-the-a-440-freekwincee/)

.

[bmac]

Just out of curiosity... Is your mandolin new? New mandolin nuts are often out of adjustment when you receive them. But the nut on a new one is normally too high, meaning not adjusted at all or minimally adjusted. I would guess that yours was adjusted for playing at one time by a previous owner or seller. It is of course possible for wood to change shape slightly with weather over time and that could cause your problem.

The first thing to do is, as suggested above, determine the cause and the solution should normally be fairly simple. it is also possible, if the problem is the nut, to raise the nut slightly but lets see if you can determine the actual cause before we suggest anything. It sounds from your question that you are not afraid to fuss with your instrument. That is good, in my opinion,

[Rob Meldrum]

Here are the big issues that can be wrong with the nut. Nut slots too deep (nut not filed down after getting the slots to optimum height) can cause a vibration that sounds bad. Nut slots not angled back and down towards the gears makes intonation a problem. Not slots not the right width causes binding, you'll hear the string move in pitch in jerks when tuning up.

If you're handy at all, email me and i wil send you my ebook on how to set up a mandolin. You will learn how to measure string heights to determine optimum nut height and bridge/saddle height, and then how to intonate the mando so the pitch stays true all the way up the fret board. It's free. Rob.meldrum@gmail.com.

[nancejo]

My Mandolin is about 1 1/2 years old and I bought it new. The problem has been with it since I first purchased it. I though it was the way I was fretting the chords since I was new to music and the Mandolin. Picking up other mandos at the store, I can fret the two finger A chord or two finger F chord and not get this sound. I have replaced strings and fiddled with the bridge position and height. Nothing I do seems to remove the issue.

The problem is I don't hear the problem if I am just plucking the "A" string. I only hear this dissonance when chording. It is frustrating to try to isolate. I think if I can correct this problem I will have a more fun with the Mando in the future.

[nancejo]

Thanks. I have replaced strings and the issue has followed.

[nancejo]

Me xpcted this thread to start off with..."So the bartender land over and said...". -

You remembered my reply :-)

[nancejo]

"It sounds from your question that you are not afraid to fuss with your instrument. That is good, in my opinion". I am of the Red Green School of tinkering, "If the ladies don't find you handsome, they at least ought to find you handy". However, no duct tape fixes on instruments!

[Willie Poole]

nancejo....for over a week I was trying to find a buzz on a guitar and it almost drove me crazy and I finally found that one one of the tuning knobs had a real small screw that holds the metal knob onto the shaft was loose, it only made the noise when I picked the G string....If you mandolin has those little screws holding the knobs onto the shaft give it look at see if this might also be your problem, probably not but it sure puzzled me for a while....Not all tuners have those screws so while plucking the A string keep touching all of the metal parts on the peghead....Might be hard to do if you have to hold a complete chord, have someone else work with you...

Let us know what you find the culprit to be if and when you do find it....

Willie

[bmac]

I am still guessing that it is somewhere on the headstock. By the way, have you tried tightening the truss rod slightly? .... I have heard of them being slightly loose from the factory and rattling or buzzing. Are two strings touching one another on the headstock or cut ends touching anything? is every screw on the tuner system screwed firmly in? Don't muscle them in but they should be firm.
try using a strip of leather shoe string or a narrow strip of felt snaked between the strings before the bridge... That is sometimes done to reduce sympathetic vibrations. also do it through the strings on the headstock just to see if that stops whatever vibration. Also use felt or something between the strings and the tailpiece cover if you have one.

Did you rule out the nut yet??? if not slip a narrow strip of typing paper under the strings and if there is any drag at all as you pull it out then a string or more than one string may be too close to the first fret and could be be vibrating against the fret.

Also if you use a strap I would remove it while testing, it will normally have metal parts.

It could also be inside the instrument, a loose tone bar for instance, but you describe it as a metalic sound so that is probably unlikely. but it is always possible that there might be something inside the sound chamber rattling or vibrating however unlikely.

I love this kind of mystery.

Keep in mind that there is always a cause and it is always findable, either by you or by someone charging $50 per hour.

[Bill Snyder]

Just one question for nancejo, are the a-strings buzzing? I ask because in your original post you say "My mandolin has a tinny sound with certain chords" but I see no mention of a buzz and everyone is giving advise on curing a buzz.

[nancejo]

It isn't a buzz, but more of a dissonance. I am guessing something is harmonically out of balance. The A Chord where you bar fret across the 2nd Fret and finger strings 2&3 on the fourth fret and then the first on the fifth fret sounds good and clear, but the two finger A on the second fret of the last two strings sound dissonant. The two finger F Chord has the same dissonance.

I can't see anything on the headstock, but I will keep looking.

I played my mandolin in church last Sunday for Monther's Day for special music. The practice and performance has gotten me more interested in the mandolin and I want to improve the sound of this intrument.

[nancejo]

BTW, I tried changing A440 to A416 and later to A466 on my Snark Tuner and then retuned the Mandolin. Both only seemed to make the sound worse.

[Barry Wilson]

I had a similar sound from my acoustic from new on the e string, ended up being a slightly high fret at the first. I just gave it a wrap with a small dowel to fit between the strings a few times to subside the "buzz". calling it a buzz cuz it wasn't really a buzz unless I played hard

[nancejo]

I have put paper under the string, dampened the strings fore and aft and tried everything around the headstock. I tightened the truss rod. I also turned to a different frequency and still no luck.

[the padma]

Did you check for a high spot on the frets?

Perhaps its time to go find thee a loofier.

[rico mando]

are your A strings well spaced apart? they can bump each other slightly .you might need to post a pic

[Michael Eck]

Are you unintentionally touching the open A strings when you fret chords? That could cause damping or dissonance. it may simply be a matter of hand position.

[Big Joe]

IT could well be a nut issue. Check the slots to ensure they are clean and not binding. Then check to see if they are ramped on the back of the nut to allow the string to proceed to the tuner clearly. If those issues are not problematic it the could be that the nut slots for the two A strings are not equal depth. That can cause a dissonant noise as they will be out of tune with one another. Beyond that, it may be best to have a good setup done. That will likely find and resolve the issue.

[nancejo]

I found a slight bow in my neck and pulled the bridge back about 1/4 inch. The bridge is farther from the the 12th fret than the nut to 12th fret now, but it really opened the mandolin up and improved intonation. I applied all the suggestions, but can't seem to find the problem. I think I will just play bar chords until I can find and afford a Luthier. They sound really good so I am not really vexed much.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[frenchquarterfly]

. . . . . . If you're handy at all, email me and i wil send you my ebook on how to set up a mandolin. You will learn how to measure string heights to determine optimum nut height and bridge/saddle height, and then how to intonate the mando so the pitch stays true all the way up the fret board. It's free. Rob.meldrum@gmail.com.


A "PREVIEW" REVIEW:
Rob's magnanimous e-book offer happened to fall right into my price range; so I thought that I'd also give its electronic contents, which I promptly received, an expeditious review, as I normally first do w/other instructional info which I've read here on the forum in order to learn & test that useful info acquired from my astute mando "betters".

Unquestionably, a quick review of its ~44 pages of facts & instructions are indeed a pleasant surprise in that, in an organized, progressive fashion, he clearly & succinctly addresses each step of the way to achieve a perfectly magnificent set-up for one's mandolin. He also proves that, unless there already happens to be a major preexisting structural instrument defect, there's absolutely no financial reason why one can't take something like a sound & intact, but super-inexpensive Chinese 禽粪便 mandolin and easily obtain a no-excuses, great playability & sound result from it !

'Can't wait 'til I to get into town this week to complete the recommended (also inexpensive) tool list in order to get started on my first greenhorn, full 'professional' set-up !
Thank you, Rob ! . . . . thank you, thank you, thank you !