First-time poster, first mandolin advice

[4coloring]

(Another one of "those" threads. I hope I'm posting it in the right place.)

Hello,

So up to this point, I've played piano as my main instrument, and as far as fretted instruments are concerned I have some experience on guitar and dulcimer, although I'm nothing to write home about. I enjoy the sound of the mandolin and would like to learn how to play, but I need to decide which mandolin to get on a budget of only ~$300, give or take a bit.

I like the look of F-style mandolins, but I've heard that A-style is better value at this price point. I also am not a fan of burst finishes at all, so I'd much prefer to get a natural finish, which I'm aware limits my options considerably.

I was thinking about buying from http://themandolinhut.com/ but am open to suggestions. I see that this place does a setup on mandolins, which I'm guessing is very important on an instrument with string tension as high as mandolins seem to have. How reputable is this place, and is their setup good enough to get a beginner like me in business or is it basically worthless? Their prices seem all right (especially if the setup is decent), but is there anywhere better?

The three that seemed most interesting to me are the Kentucky KM162, Mastercraft MAS/MFS300, and the Savannah SA120 mandolins. I like the look of the wood on the Mastercraft, and the F style is not that much more expensive than my budget. I've heard nothing but good things about Kentucky in what research I have done, and the Savannah while being by far the drabbest is the least expensive and is still made of all solid woods. Although I'm not expecting to get a quality instrument, and am OK with that since I won't sound too great as a beginner anyway, I'd prefer decent sound to not decent sound, and I especially want to get something very playable. Of the three, what would you all suggest?

Or, is there another option (or another place to buy from that I should consider) that I haven't considered? I'm very open to other suggestions.

Thanks,
Mark

[Fstpicker]

I had a friend who got a Loar LM-400VS from them with a set up and at a good price. I played it and felt that the set-up at the nut slots could have been lower, but it was still easy to play. There was one poster on Mandolin Cafe who purchased a Savannah F-200 all-solid-wood mandolin (made in the same factory as the Loars) off of Ebay, and after some adjustments, was pleased with it's sound.

It is kind of unfortunate that more plain non-sunburst mandolins aren't made in the lower price points, but perhaps most prefer the sunburst like Monroe used, and is considered the standard everyone emulates.

I know they are some who have actually sanded the sunburst finish off their mandolins to reveal more of the natural wood grain and beauty. Not an easy job, but well worth it for those who have done it, at least IMO.

Jeff

[taylor410]

I am no expert as I myself am waiting on my first mandolin to arrive. Of the 3 you listed, I'd be tempted to lean towards the Kentucky. Also, not familiar with Mandolin Hut, but I noticed something on their website that bothers me. "All mandolins are tuned before shipping". It is of my understanding that you do NOT want to ship any stringed instrument with the strings at tuned tension. I know players that detune their guitars when they get on a plane. Taylor recommends detuning before shipping. I'm sure other more experienced people here will chime in. Good luck with the new purchase. This place can be addictive.......

[Folkmusician.com]

I would also go with the Kentucky KM-162. Mandolins should never be shipped fully tuned. It is asking for the headstock to snap off, or top to crack. We tried for a while and damage went up something like 500% (not quite as bad as it sounds, since damage when detuned is very rare). They should be shipped under enough tension to hold the bridge in the correct spot, and that is it.

[JeffD]

You have done some good homework.

[allenhopkins]

Mastercraft apparently is a Mandolin Hut "house brand." All the models you cite are spec-ed as "solid woods," a plus. The Savannah lists a "carved top," the others don't, so probably their tops are pressed into shape. Carved is better, though not enough of an advantage to be a sole decision criterion.

If you go by Cafe "rep," the Kentucky has received the most positive feedback; at least that's my impression from reading quite a few of these threads.

[Phil1580]

My first mandolin (which I may soon sell) was a Kentucky 150 from The Mandolin Hut. I stupidly tried to get a 140 (having a tight budget but not realizing the plus to all-solid yet), and when they didn't have 140's they upgraded me to a 150 for the same price. Setup was good enough that I thoroughly enjoyed my Kentucky. I would also second the Kentucky choice. Play for a year, and if you still have scroll envy.....I just got me a Loar 500 from Robert at Folkmusician, HIGHLY recommend both the mandolin and the service! :)

[taylor410]

Phil,
How would you compare the setup between the kentucky and the Loar? I'm thinking Robert takes more time with them. For some reason I got the impression of a fleabay store when I looked at the MH site.

I have had PM exchanges with the OP Like I said previously, I ain't no expert.

[Phil1580]

While I was satisfied both with playability of my Kentucky + my phone contact with the folks at Mandolin Hut, the playability and my overall satisfaction is FAR greater with my Loar from Robert. (NFI anywhere btw) ....Nice fast action on my Loar, love it. If I had to do all over again I may have grabbed my Kentucky 150 there too.

[4coloring]

Thanks for your help! I'm definitely inclined to get the Kentucky KM-162.

One other thing: I was comparing the accessories each place offered with the mandolins. Which ones are important to have? I definitely want a hard case. I already have picks and tuners of my own, and thanks to the wonders of the Internet I can live without instructional materials. But are there such things as mandolin straps or stands (such as some people use for guitars), and are they prevalent/recommended for convenience? If they exist, I could see the use for them. If there are mandolin straps, does an extra strap button have to be installed for them to be used as on guitar?

I was highly impressed by the description of Folkmusician.com's mandolin setup. The Mandolin Hut also provides a setup description (http://themandolinhut.com/mandolin_setup_procedure.htm), but from the looks of it, apparently they don't do any kind of tinkering with the frets. My only concern is that, when the cost of a hard case is factored in, the price is $90 more than Mandolin Hut. Assuming I valued the extra picks, tuner, and instructional materials at $10, and given that this instrument is not that expensive, is the better setup worth a 33% increase in the price?

A $100 setup would be expensive in the guitar world. I don't know if this is true for mandolins or not. And Mandolin Hut does do some setup (even if definitely not as extensive), so it's not like this is the difference between setup and no setup.

Is it worth it to pay the premium to buy from the place that will do it right, or is it a better idea to just buy from the least expensive place (preferably with a special request to have them ship with strings detuned) and possibly take it to a local instrument technician to have a setup done later?

[Dave Weiss]

Pay the extra! My first mando, a km-162 was from the mandolin hut because it came as a kit, case, tuner and book (and a couple of cheap picks) all at a good price. It was set up ok (I think), but it's not a padded case, a cheap, but usable tuner and the book was of questionable value. If I had it to do all over again I'd go with Folkmusician.com (and have a few times). This is definately a case of getting what you pay for...

[Eric Hanson]

I agree with Dave.
Pay the extra.
I initially had a luthier do some set up work for me. He didn't have as much experience with mandolins though. It got rid of the buzz I had, but it just didn't seem to play like I wanted it to.
I then had a mandolin luthier work on it. Wow. What a difference. It was WELL worth the extra $. I wish I would have gone to him first.
Lesson learned.

[LA Mando]

I don't know if others will agree with me on this, but it seems to me that entry-level mandolins vary widely, even among the same brand. I'd be tempted to find some place within driving distance if possible and have someone play it so that you can sit in front of it and hear the differences. I paid just over $200 for my first mandolin, and I was very fortunate to find a good Michael Kelly A-solid. I've heard some others that don't sound at all like mine, despite being the "same" mandolin. Having something shipped without getting to hear it first from an unfamiliar dealer would make me nervous.

My shopping strategy was to find a good luthier (looking at websites helped) and calling them to ask who were reputable dealers in the area that they would trust. They gave me 2 names within a day's drive. I then headed out, knowing that I wanted solid wood, and that's about it. The dealer was great, played lots of mandolins for me, and I picked something in my price range with a sound I liked. It needed to be set up properly, which I had the luthier do for me. Not very expensive, and well worth the money. I still play that mandolin--a lot.

I don't know if this helps, but that's my experience, for what it's worth!

[Fstpicker]

I'd recommend Robert at Folkmusician as well, if I was getting a mandolin, over the Mandolin Hut. Just more experienced and he is a constant poster here, and we all know him better. My Loar LM-400VS I purchased almost two years ago, was from the original owner who purchased it directly from Robert. It had a good set-up, but could use a Cumberland bridge as the screws are out all the way, which was a common issue with some of the first batches of these models. Mine is the SECOND LM-400VS made, and the first one to be sold to the public. Very happy with it for the most part.

Wish you the best.

Jeff

[bmac]

Settup prices can vary depending on location and amount of work to be done.... You should assume that any low end mandolin needs it (desparatly) and quite a few higher end instruments as well... Any instrument can be adjusted for the individual player so there is no ultimate standard. Settup is something you can learn to do yourself. See frets.com

Your instrument as it comes from the factory and a few picks (finger picks and flat picks and a tuner is all you need... Fancy bridges may or may not work better but until you have the experienced ear to hear the difference there is no point in spending the extra money. Most straps are overkill and an inexpensive strap is more than adequate. there is usually no need to put a strap hanger thingy on the heel. A bootlace works fine for a strap. I rarely use a case so I don't know anything about them. Certainly necessary for travel.

[Randi Gormley]

fwiw, the set up on my super-cheapo mandolin cost $60 (more than the cost of the instrument) and it was worth it. It's still a piece of plywood, but it plays as easily as my (relatively) more expensive ones. When I bought my Eastman, I got it from Bernunzio's (played it at a festival and bought it a few days later via telephone order) and it came with a wonderful setup that was included in the price.
For the extras ... I don't use a strap and I have different types of cases, from chipboard to padded foldovers to a mandolin-shaped cloth-covered case with internal formed padding. Since I have more than one instrument, they usually sit in whatever case they came with and I just grab whatever instrument I'm using and don't change cases. That does change when I'm traveling, though, as I use the lightest case since it's just easier to maneuver. You'll need a tuner and pick(s) and it doesn't hurt to have a spare set of strings for your case. My husband has all sorts of things for his guitar (polishing cloth, capo, string-eze, wood polish, extra bridge pegs, tuner, mini metronome) but I never felt the need to mimic much of it.

[Sid Simpson]

I can also give you a recommendation on The Mandolin Store. I bought my first mandolin there - a Kentucky KM172 - and it came well set up. I have been pleased enough with them to have bought two more upgrades from them. Their service and support are well known. They are also great people and love to talk mandolins, so I encourage you to call or email them and talk about your needs. They do a setup on all mandolins they sell and they all come with cases.

BTW, I still play my Kentucky. It's a great little mandolin and it's the one I keep out and at hand when I am at home. I've been very happy with the sound and playability.

[JeffD]

Is it worth it to pay the premium to buy from the place that will do it right, or is it a better idea to just buy from the least expensive place (preferably with a special request to have them ship with strings detuned) and possibly take it to a local instrument technician to have a setup done later?

Yes its worth it. You will get a good set up done right, and you will be able to play that sucker from the get go, and you will never ever think of the money you may have saved. Ever.

Where as a less than adequate set up or no set up and you will be fighting with that thing until it is set up, and you will remember those fights and the disappointment.

[mofiddler]

I just received my Loar LM520 from Robert at FolkMusician and I chose to pay a little extra to get the one with a hard case and setup. I knew it would make a little difference, but have found that I can use my pinky finger in scales where I never could before, and this thing absolutely rings. I'd recommend one highly, and IMO the setup is well worth it!

[4coloring]

Thanks for the help! On the basis of this forum's collective advice, I placed an order for a Kentucky KM162 + hard case. Didn't bother with a strap or anything else, but did decide to pay the extra for a good setup. I ended up ordering from The Mandolin Store, however, as they were also recommended to me, cost a bit less while still doing what seems like a thorough setup job from their description, and were very prompt and helpful when I dealt with them. I'm looking forward to the mandolin's arrival. Then it will be on to the hard part: actually learning how to play the thing...

[leopoldcat]

Hello, I just purchased a mastercraft mfs 300 and am fairly happy with my purchase. It sounds good, came set up fine although the action is a bit higher than I would have liked. The finish work is a little sloppy but all in all you get what you pay for and this mandolin is definately a step up from the old stella which I played for years. The scroll on the mfs300 isnt hollow, its a solid chunk of carved wood. But all things considered if you want a decent playable mandolin its a good bargain, especially if you dont expect any resale value since nobody really knows about this brand. Its a good place to start and a good looking mandolin with a solid carved spruce top and solid back and sides of maple.

[Jim Ferguson]

Welcome to the Cafe "4".........I am partial to the Kentucky mandos (of those you listed). Kentucky makes good mandos & I think you'd be happy with the KM162.
Peace,

[Capt. E]

If you want to put on a strap simply get a long bootlace, tie one end on the strap button at the tail and the other either around the head (under the strings and at an angle between tuning posts) or around the top of the body under the end of the finger board. Mandolin's are light weight and a shoelace works just fine. Other than for standing up, a strap will help position the mandolin for playing. Have fun learning. I have found mandolins easier than guitars.

[Choctaw]

I am an old fellow of 70 years. Have played guitar since I was 12. During those years I have leaned may things about buying and selling instruments. Seems you never know how an instrument plays or the issues it has until it has been in your possession for some time. The more experience a person has allows them to find out some of the tricks of the trade. I started out just wanting a guitar name because someone good played one, also got them because they looked beautiful. Then found out cracks, crooked fret boards, broken bracing, buzzing strings, stripped tuners…. all of these are important issues to having a nice instrument.

All of the above is just a story telling why I am concerned that I have decided to buy my first mandolin. I know NOTHING about them. Don’t know which names are considered the best, what finger board wood is the best, what sizes they come in. I suppose the F letter means an F shape in the body. I have looked on the web and there is lots of info about tuning, chords etc. which are easy to find. Then I read about all the views on special setup etc. I also read that guitar players seem to have a time with the different fingering of the mandolin. I would love to hear from some of the “as they call them” people in the know here in the forum. I don’t really want to buy and then replace it with something I like better…then buy again. All because I did not know squat about this instrument called the mandolin.

Thank you for any comments or advise concerning this matter.
Choctaw (a tribal member)

[David Lewis]

I am an old fellow of 70 years. Have played guitar since I was 12. During those years I have leaned may things about buying and selling instruments. Seems you never know how an instrument plays or the issues it has until it has been in your possession for some time. The more experience a person has allows them to find out some of the tricks of the trade. I started out just wanting a guitar name because someone good played one, also got them because they looked beautiful. Then found out cracks, crooked fret boards, broken bracing, buzzing strings, stripped tuners…. all of these are important issues to having a nice instrument.

All of the above is just a story telling why I am concerned that I have decided to buy my first mandolin. I know NOTHING about them. Don’t know which names are considered the best, what finger board wood is the best, what sizes they come in. I suppose the F letter means an F shape in the body. I have looked on the web and there is lots of info about tuning, chords etc. which are easy to find. Then I read about all the views on special setup etc. I also read that guitar players seem to have a time with the different fingering of the mandolin. I would love to hear from some of the “as they call them” people in the know here in the forum. I don’t really want to buy and then replace it with something I like better…then buy again. All because I did not know squat about this instrument called the mandolin.

Thank you for any comments or advise concerning this matter.
Choctaw (a tribal member)

'F' refers to florentine. That scroll you see. As for what brands? That depends. We're in a golden age of manufacturing at the moment. Gibson, I presume are the best. But Epiphone make some nice budget instruments. Less global makers like JBovier or Rigel do very nice mandos too. It depends what you want.

Fingering? For the first three frets, it's guitar upside down. After then it still is, but you'll find it more difficult. It is worth the challenge, though.

[Randi Gormley]

Choctaw: welcome to the cafe!

I think there's still some debate over whether the F stands for anything or was just the model number; be that as it may, the F mandolins have scrolls (and points), the A's don't and there are other variations that include two- points and bowlbacks. some have flat tops, some are carved (or pressed) tops. The biggest difference in the F's and A's is whether they have F-holes or oval holes, though. Most people ask what your specific musical tastes are before giving much advice since some instruments are linked to different types of music in some people's minds ... not that you need any specific mandolin to play anything you desire, of course.

You might want to check out the "mandolins in progress" string; many of the best small commercial luthiers post their instruments, and you can see how they're crafted and how the mandolin is made. That might help you in seeing what things to look for in a used instrument (bracing, finish, glue etc.).

Is there any particular reason you're moving to the mandolin? In addition to the fact it's a great instrument, that is? A sound you want to duplicate? A tune you want to play? A style you want to expand to?

[allenhopkins]

'F' refers to florentine. That scroll you see. As for what brands? That depends. We're in a golden age of manufacturing at the moment. Gibson, I presume are the best. But Epiphone make some nice budget instruments. Less global makers like JBovier or Rigel do very nice mandos too. It depends what you want.

Fingering? For the first three frets, it's guitar upside down. After then it still is, but you'll find it more difficult. It is worth the challenge, though.

Choctaw:

Gibson, back in the early 20th century, gave the "F" model designation to mandolins made with an ornamental scroll and points on the body, and a "scrolled" shape to the headstock. As far as we know, this was an arbitrary letter assignment, like "K" for mandocellos, "J" for mando-basses, and "L" for guitars. Subsequently, the scroll-and-points body shape has been referred to as "Florentine" (though Gibson didn't use the term for mandolins until the 1950's, and then for an electric mandolin with no scroll), so, in current usage, "F" is taken to mean "Florentine."

What mandolin is "best"? Unanswerable question, really. Start by answering a couple questions: (A) what kind of music do you want to play, and (2) how much money do you want to spend? (Note the Tom & Ray Magliozzi numbering sequence.)

As far as learning the different chord fingerings from guitar to mandolin, it's been my experience that the first instrument's the hardest, and that once you get the hang of making chords, moving to a differently-tuned-and-fingered instrument is less difficult. That's what I've found, anyway, starting on banjo and moving to guitar and mandolin.

Condition is very important, and proper set-up is crucial on a "first" mandolin. Come back at us with what you want to play and what you want to spend, and you'll get a variety of well-founded opinions, for sure.