Clown Shoes & Other Accessories [Archive]

Bob A

Nov-07-2003, 6:19pm

OK, I've nothing better to do, and I've had my dinner.

My name is Bob, and I have two clown shoes.

They are similar to the ones in the other thread, but differ in the fastening arrangements. The better one has the spring hook/ metal tab fasteners, like on the boots you used to wear when it snowed. The other has straps and buckles - a nuisance.

I paid a shoemaker way too much money to replace the straps and buckles, and to fashion a new handle, and to dye the case where it had rubbed thru to bare leather. Now it comes off on my pants when I try to open it.

They both have the logo decribed - someone called it a "bullhead" case. I don't know if that was an actual brand name or just developed off the logo. I hope Eugene is aware that bullhead is the local (upstate NY) name for catfish.

I suspect they were generic cases, bought by whomever was building bowlbacks back then. Still, they're reasonably convenient absent anything better. I've had occasion before to warn that extracting a mandolin from these things must be done while sober - gravity takes a hand, and they tend to move to lower quantum states pretty rapidly.

Jim Garber

Nov-07-2003, 6:31pm

I also have two clownshoes. I started a thread on the Post a Picture area in order to entertain the mandolin masses who are probably not aware of the clownshoe, since Loars do not fit in them. http://mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif My two darlings are located there in jpegs.

The stamp I posted on the ebay martin thread does picture a bullshead (not aq catfish&#33http://mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif tho there is not any stamped type that says that.

On the other hand my black case has the attached stamp. I am not sure what that one is.

Jim Garber

Nov-07-2003, 6:50pm

Boy, I sure need to get a life, don't I... or at least practice...

Here is another thing. I am not sure I have ever seen one of these. This is from an 1888 Bruno catalog. The price, for you, if you act now? #A mere $3.75

You can see why the clownshoe cases are called (http://www.spearshoes.com/) ...

Alex Timmerman

Nov-07-2003, 7:32pm

Hello Bob A,

I also have a pair...

Greetings,

Alex.

Jim Garber

Nov-07-2003, 7:36pm

Interesting that everyone has a PAIR of clownshoes. Any with odd number? Peter, you will have to acquire another, I am afraid.

Bob DeVellis

Nov-07-2003, 7:54pm

I had a single clown shoe that came with a Martin bowlback. I figured I'd never get a pair, so I threw the one away. Actually, it was more clown shoe remnants and totally beyond repair, so I did toss it. The logo actually did have a name and I believe it was Bull's Head. I also have a more conventionally shaped leather Bull's Head case that came with a Howe-Orme mandola. Have you ever noticed that just about every instrument that has spent time in one of those rear-opening cases has a mark on its back from the "hinge" crease? I always get a chuckle when I see an old instrument on eBay or on a dealer's web page, sans case, and there's the telltale linear finish bruise along the back. I know where they kept you, you little rascal -- in the clown shoe!

Eugene

Nov-07-2003, 8:05pm

Actually, bullhead is both a blanket name for fishes of the family Ictaluridae (i.e. the bullhead catfishes of North America), and the common name for fishes of the genus Ameiurus; we have plenty here in Ohio...and they have little to do with the bullhead on one of my two clown shoes. #The one in leather has the typical "Trademark Warranted" written above and below the bull's head in a treble staff, which is spanned by "MW." #I also spent too much to have a cobbler replace the straps and buckles. #My second is kind of a pseudo-clownshoe of green felt with fancy brass snaps. #I believe this was a custom job for a rather simple Vega that I believe was also a custom job.

Our digital camera is down. #Sometime I'll get some images and post them in Jim's graphic-rich thread.

Jim Garber

Nov-10-2003, 10:28am

Since this thread is subtitled ...and other accessories, I figured that while we are waiting for more clownshoes to show up, I'd entertain you with some accessory pages. This one is of picks (plectra) from a circa 1926 Bruno catalog.

I esp like #38 which looks like it comes from a James Bond movie.

Alex Timmerman

Nov-10-2003, 10:52am

Nice picture Jim!

Here is a thick pick used on todays modern German mandolins.

Alex.

mandroid

Nov-10-2003, 8:29pm

Perhaps Sousa Marches and clown shoes are a perfect fit.

vkioulaphides

Nov-11-2003, 9:30am

Yoo-hoo, bratsche... can you see yourself making me a few more picks in 2004, similar to the, ehm... UPPERmost shapes posted above? (No, NOT the "Ninja-Pick", thank you.)

I mean, after all, I am acquiring several (alas, too many?) mandolins and it is starting to feel positively idiotic, transfering the same pick-case from one mandolin-case to the other. I really ought to have a few picks-in-residence with each instrument, no?

(Parenthesis: In a display of vanity, I have a lovely, wooden pick-case with a sliding lid, inlaid with fine marquetry; inside, my two favorite picks by bratsche, plus two equally fine ones —but different, of course—#by our own pklima. Going to the Caribbean this summer, I plan to acquire a couple more such cases, perhaps made of native, aromatic woods.)

So, bratsche, what do you say? I obviously do NOT want a bunch of identical picks but variants within my "spectrum of taste"; you know what that means. Let's talk, if you wish.

Yes, I am impoverished in my post-Calace-buyer's-thrill (no, NO remorse at all). Still, today is St. Victor's Day according to the Eastern Orthodox calendar and, while the good St. Vic was by all accounts a rather, err... minor figure in the workings of (not-so-)Holy Mother Church, he IS my namesake-saint after all and I have to think in terms of giving myself some sort of nameday present! #http://mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

bratsche

Nov-11-2003, 10:58am

Sure thing, Victor, any time you wish - just say the word, and I will make you whatever spectra of plectra your heart desires. ;-)

bratsche

pklima

Dec-06-2003, 2:32pm

About a month after it arrived, my clownshoe is finally restored (see the thread in the photo-posting area for evidence). Took about 10-15 man-hours.

Now I've got a problem... it's ready to sell, but I have no clue what a fair asking price is. I could throw it to the wolves of Ebay starting at a dollar, but that would almost guarantee it would either bring far below or far above a fair price (I've sold some things for downright ridiculous amounts on Ebay). I definitely will NOT sand off the brand stamp, claim it's "probably Italian" and refuse to sell it to white people...

Any advice?

Bob A

Dec-06-2003, 3:16pm

Peter, in my desperation for a case I've taken a battered clownshoe to a leather guy, who did a poor job of restoring it and charged me a hundred bucks.

I found another on ebay and paid about 110 for it, if memory serves. It was in better shape than the first one. They aren't the best case in the world, but for everyday carry they're worth a c-note in my book. After all, what are the alternatives?

Jeff_Stallard

Dec-06-2003, 3:47pm

Is the bowlback case market that desparate that people are paying $100+ for clown shoes (which aren't much better than chipboard cases)?! WOW, I need to rethink building and selling MY cases! I could help balance supply and demand AND make some cabbage in the process! Hmmm....maybe a small factory...assembly line...

bratsche

Dec-06-2003, 3:58pm

Have any of you tried this guy's (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2576470112&category=10179) gig bags that show up on eBay a lot? Seems like they'd be as good as, or probably better than, the clown shoes...

bratsche

Bob A

Dec-06-2003, 4:16pm

Actually, you know, the clown shoe ain't bad as a protector. The general lightness of a bowlback keeps the "moment" low, so there isn't a lot of energy involved in a minor bump, and the leather is quite stiff. Certainly I'd prefer a clown shoe to a gigbag, which is merely a dust-cover with a handle.

Chipboard cases are not all that common for bowlbacks, and offer little protection. Hard cases, when found, are in excess of a hundred bucks, and they don't offer that much more than the shoe. The main drawback is the awkward loading/unloading thru the end of the case.

I got a real nice wood case off ebay, for rather too much money, but I'd like to see its graceful lines duplicated in seamless aluminum, with decent hardware and a bit of a weather seal around the opening edges, large enough to hold any bowlback, with the padding amenable to adjustment by the mandolin-owner to fit smaller instruments. I'd be willing to go a couple or three centuries for something like that. A good metalworker with the proper welding equipment ought to be able to turn them out pretty easily.

Jim Garber

Dec-06-2003, 6:14pm

I bought one of evanp's bags and it is very good. I would buy a few more. At one time he offered to give me a bulk price but I have only a few takers. Very reliable seller and decent heavyweight, well-padded gig bag. He even sells a mandola bag but I don't think he has a bowlback mandola one.

The price has gone up prob because of the euro rising. I think these cases are made in Germany.

I had emailed him to see if he could get me a hardshell case for my Pandini but he couldn't.

Jim

Bob DeVellis

Dec-06-2003, 6:54pm

Bob A -- You might try contacting Mike Dugger (http://www.glenroadmusic.com/bio_mike.shtml), Irish fiddler and banjo player, and all-around good guy. A few years back, he was making very nice custom cases out of aluminum. They were very strong -- he drove a truck over one with his fiddle in it -- and very nicely made with any custom features you want. He does all the work himself (assuming he's still building them). He went off and learned welding because he wanted to build himself a case and then people kept asking, so he began taking orders. I haven't communicated with Mike in ages and didn't know him real well even then, although we'd played together a few times (when I was struggling with concertina). I don't have a current emaill address but the link above should enable you to get a phone number or email address from a web directory.

pklima

Dec-06-2003, 9:28pm

The bowlback case market is perhaps not quite that desperate, but most are intended for larger contemporary Italian and Asian instruments and don't fit old American bowlbacks well.

I've had a few modern chipboard cases pass through my hands; they required a towel to keep a Vega or Larson bros. from flying around the interior. They also weren't anywhere near as thick or stiff as my clownshoe, which is actually constructed of cardboard around 1/4" thick covered with leather on the outside and felt on the inside.

Anyway, thanks to Bob A. I now have an idea of value and a case which won't stain pants. This board is great!

Jeff_Stallard

Dec-06-2003, 10:56pm

This thread also got me thinking about an aluminum case, so I did some research and found a few suppliers of aluminum case hardware. #I think I'm going to take my first case (never really happy with it) and revamp it into a wood/aluminum hybrid (wood panels, aluminum hardware and edging). #I'm excited, because I've always wanted to weatherproof my cases, but never knew how...until now.

# #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

vkioulaphides

Dec-07-2003, 10:54am

This may well be inadmissible on this thread —or, worse yet, it might make ME inadmissible to the board henceforth— but I do not have a clownshoe! *whew* Out with it!

What alarms me about them is the scenario of opening the case carelessly, as I am certainly likely to do at one time or another, and watching in horror as the instrument crash-lands on the floor before my very eyes.

But we have had this conversation time and again, always revolving around the well-known product-deficiency of the market.

Earlier on, I had found a decent hard case from Musikalia but, with shipping included, it comes to some $150—#I should say: "It came" to ..." With the dollar slipping (and, alas, poised to slip further if one or two critical factors "creak"), those cases will cost a pretty penny before long.

I had corresponded with Calace, who sells his own cases, built (obviously) to fit Calace mandolins down to the last millimeter but the vibe I got was "the family firm does not sell cases alone". So, his current, 65-euro price is off the table for the case-alone-seekers.

The nice, hard case I brought Bob's Greek mando in set him back 100 euro last summer, i.e. $120+ right now. And still, I don't know that this price would be applicable to a case without a mandolin in the deal.

An avenue I have not followed yet: those rectangular, Modern Case Co. (am I right about the name?) cases. They have a one-size-fits-all, low-end model for $140, if I am not mistaken, plus a tailor-made case to the customer's specs for a bit more. Does anyone here actually have one?

Being one with a "modern bowlback bias", I am not suffering too much from this market-deficiency. Any decent luthier should either make, or have someone make on his behalf, well-fitting cases for his instruments. The more, ehm... vintage-minded amongst us are more tangibly in the predicament of "this is precious; now where do I put it?

Jim Garber

Dec-07-2003, 5:03pm

The bowlback case market is perhaps not quite that desperate, but most are intended for larger contemporary Italian and Asian instruments and don't fit old American bowlbacks well.

Anyway, thanks to Bob A. I now have an idea of value and a case which won't stain pants. #This board is great!
Ironically, I have a Harptone bowlback case that was intended to fit the Vega I got with it. I spoke to a luthier friend and he believes that Harptone might have fallen off the face of the earth. I believe that TKL bought them and they were selling off their stock and at some point would meld into the parent company. I think that was the last hope for mass-manufactured hardshell cases for American instruments.

As far as my search for a hard case for my Pandini, the maker himself has one to sell me for 150 euros and with shipping will come to about the same as a custom case by Modern Case. I have a friend who has one that he will show me before I decide. I just have to figure out how to send payment to Italy since they do not accept US postal money orders over there and assuming I go that route.

Personally I would not rely on a clownshoe for real protection. I also would fear the fall out of the case. I would spend the money for a custom case, if need be.

Jeff_Stallard

Dec-07-2003, 8:40pm

The material for my case (the black one) came out to ~$45, so if you're at all handy and have some basic tools, you can have yourself a sturdy case on the cheap. Everything can be purchased locally, including the corner pieces, although mail order will certainly give you a wider variety of material, and might be cheaper. You could even save some money by using that acoustic-type foam and not cover it (I use different foam).

The only exception to "basic tools" is a hot wire cutter (~$35). There are ways around needing it, but it sure makes things simpler.

If any of you want to try to build your own, I'd be happy to write up some instructions and guide you around the many pitfalls I had to climb out of.

Jim Garber

Dec-07-2003, 9:26pm

Jeff S:
Yes I would be interested in the pitfalls/instructions for case making.

Jim

Jeff_Stallard

Dec-08-2003, 5:59am

I'll get working on some intructions. How soon do you need them?

vkioulaphides

Dec-08-2003, 8:40am

[QUOTE]"I just have to figure out how to send payment to Italy since they do not accept US postal money orders over there and assuming I go that route."

Jim, you will need an international bank-check or money-order. The nasty element of this is that, in ADDITION to the commission you will be charged for the currency exchange (a hefty 6.233% at my local bank), you will ALSO be charged a flat fee ($20-30) for the rare and wonderful "privilege" of the check itself. Ah, we ought to have been in the banking business...

And I am afraid you are right: For all practical purposes —and according to what I am hearing from Elderly— Harptone is no more. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

pklima

Dec-08-2003, 9:27am

Jeff, please put me on the list of people interested in case-making instructions... I've been thinking of spending the Christmas break making either a simple chipboard case or a gig bag (out of an old sleeping bag) to have something to carry the troll cittern around in. Although I have no intentions of making a "nice" case (it's a $300 instrument, and a gigantic one at that), I'm sure your experience will be helpful.

And Victor, you need not worry about owning no clownshoe... It appears I will soon rejoin the ranks of clownshoe non-owners myself. Besides, owning one 'shoe is a bit silly, isn't it? If you don't have a pair, I think it's better to have none at all.

Jim Garber

Jan-21-2004, 10:53pm

I'll get working on some intructions. #How soon do you need them?
Jeff Stallard:
Any progress on your case-making plans?

grsnovi

Feb-15-2004, 9:53pm

Before I dug through the site in depth, I posted a thread on this in equipment. Both Pete and Jim have seen that I rec'd a hard case on 2/13 which I purchased from Lark In The Morning for $60.

It is Korean made and my Vega fits rather nicely - a larger instrument would not.

The clown shoe I had dry-rotted years ago, but I kept it for lack of a better case. I considered fiber-glassing it with autobody fiberglass and resin, but never did.

bratsche

Feb-15-2004, 10:59pm

Here's (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3704584608&category=359) something you connoisseurs might be interested in (no commercial interest, of course).

bratsche

milazzese

Mar-24-2004, 1:55am

After reading about the above-mentioned case from Lark in the Morning, I ordered one myself. After shaving down the neck rest a quarter inch (very easy, since it screws in place), my Fairbanks fits very nicely-- quite sturdy, too.

As far as I am concerned, the case problem that has plagued me for almost a year has been solved.

Deo Gratias!

Jim Garber

Mar-24-2004, 9:01am

milazzese,
I also bought one of these $60 cases from Lark and it is serviceable. The problem I have is that my Pandini has a crookneck with side-mounted tuners and the neck comes up a little too high to close the case.

It is fine, tho, because I have plenty of other candidates for storage in this case., but I will have to get a hard case for my main mandolin one day.

Jim

Jim Garber

Jun-29-2005, 10:45pm

I was just doing some reading on mugwumps.com site and found this entry about a case maker:

Q: I am trying to identify this trade mark. It is stamped into an old, leather guitar case. JC
A: It was registered to a company named Maulbetsch & Whittemore, Newark, NJ. They claimed it was in use since October 10, 1891. The application was filed on May 24, 1893. Trade mark #23375 was issued on July 18, 1893. Their initials can be seen on the music staff, on either side of the bull's head.

Jim