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lindensensei
Dec-18-2004, 6:15am
I’ve been taking Chris Thile’s music apart lately and am fairly amazed by all the passive double stops he seems to get. #After listening for hours and playing along (as best I can) I began to realize that he gets these wonderful sustaining notes that become passive double stops by playing up in the second and third positions and using open strings when the opportunity arises.

For example. #In “Hop the Fence” I would do a simple descending triplet to open the tune but got nowhere near the ring and sustain he gets. #I assumed it was the Dudd vs. The Fern. #Not so. #He begins by moving up to the 5th fret on the 1st string and instead of descending to the 2nd fret moves to the 2nd string 9th fret and allows the first to sustain, creating a nice passive double stop. #This proceeds through the entire tune. #

In “Ode” he does the same in the third phrase when he slides up to that 12th fret glide down to the 2nd string (11th fret to 9th fret) but there, instead of hitting the 7th fret, again he goes back to the 1st string open. #Later on, in the bridge he does it a lot by using the 4th-5th slide, drops back to the bottom open string, pops the same at the 9th fret and then hits the string above open while going back to 4th-5th. #This way he gets lots of passive double stops and creates an amazingly full sound.

Whew! #All that to ask this. #Does anyone else do this? #Am I so naïve that I never noticed it before? #Is this a common practice, to use the 2nd and 3rd positions to create these double stop opportunities with open strings?

adda_as
Dec-18-2004, 9:58am
I do it all the time.

angrymandolinist
Dec-18-2004, 10:24am
Atle! Hey, I didn't know you had an account on here. See you on Deviantart.

Bradley
Dec-18-2004, 10:43am
Quote;near the ring and sustain he gets. I assumed it was the Dudd vs. The Fern.

No, you are just missing the effects that are used to produce the CD.

It amazes me the credibilty the Dude gets....

lindensensei
Dec-18-2004, 11:14am
Actually, I was refering to the ring (chime). #Since the note that I would normally play would be the logical E in the descending line - 11th fret, 9th fret, then 7th (E on 2nd string) I couln't get the chime-like effect. #When playing that note as the open 1st, you get it. #NO effects. #But what makes his use so unusual is that he comes back to the 2nd string then. It is a constant in his playing.

Bradley
Dec-18-2004, 11:23am
I remember a comment that Mike Compton made at one of his
workshops I attended..."I dont know how Chris Thile plays that stuff,so dont ask me"....

jasona
Dec-18-2004, 11:59am
Thile demonstrates how to play this tune on his instructional video, which I highly recommend. The chime as you call it is the result of good crosspicking technique. I've been working on this tune off and on because its great to train your left hand to get a proper arch to your fingers.

His positional play up the neck is textbook perfect too!

SternART
Dec-18-2004, 1:02pm
Must be a typo right? Last time I saw Chris he wasn't playing a Dudd,or a Fern, but a Dude. (Dudenbostel)

lindensensei
Dec-18-2004, 4:51pm
Yes, a typo. I would not be that disrespectful of such an artist/maker.

mandomood
Dec-18-2004, 5:26pm
the technique isn't difficult at all but the only way to get the 'floaty' sound...or chime as you're calling it...

allowing notes to ring together in clusters is what makes the crosspicking sound so good...really full sound as opposed to short staccato or cut off notes...

can make a melody or solo really full fluid and smooth...it pays off to see what happens when you can use open strings vs. closed or fretted notes in your melody line whenever possible or vice versa...it will change the character of the phrase

Crowder
Dec-18-2004, 6:39pm
Thile's playing also has a lot of "bounce" on that tune and others, it really pushes the tune forward and makes it sound faster than it is. He and Bush are the best at that.

PhilGE
Dec-18-2004, 7:53pm
I think it was Simon Mayor (or was that Thile?) who recommended leaving your fingers on the strings and letting a note sound as long as possible before lifting off. This may be one of the "secrets" to tone. I can't play fast and really don't have much tremelo, but I like the tone I get using this technique.

-Phil

Peter Hackman
Dec-19-2004, 9:10am
I use this device sparingly, mostly on guitar -
sometimes it enables a fast switch between
positions. E.g., I might start with a high e,c#
on the 1st string, then b, g# on the second
down to open e on the 1st, continuing in
open position.

Also used it a lot in my fingerpicking days,
in open D or G. Of course, it's a banjo thing.
When I was struggling with the 5-string 40 years
ago I discovered this type of fingering when I wanted
to transplant a fiddle tune (Howdy Forrester's Brilliancy)
to the banjo, almost never playing two notes in succession
on the same string. Only afterwards did I learn about
Bill Keith! I gave up the banjo in '65, but I taught the tune to friend and we recorded it in '69.

When I got started on the mandolin in '66
I was advised to avoid
open strings altogether, even in keys like G, D, and A.
I still damp strings quickly so as not to leave them ringing
I think of the mandolin as a horn.

I admire Thile's playing (although I prefer a meatier tone)
and composing,
but I would never try to copy it. It's not the way
I hear things.

lindensensei
Dec-19-2004, 10:14am
Thanks Peter, Phil, Jason, et al. That's what I was looking for.