12-String Bowl Back

[anyadang]

I found another instrument for my collection. I'll be picking it up tomorrow. It's a 12-string bowl back. Well, at the moment it's a 2 string.

After reading through the forums, I see I should use light strings. And, the most common tuning seems to be eeeaaadddggg - triple the strings instead of double - but I see a lot of variations.

Does anyone play one of these, and if so, how do YOU tune it?



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84630

[anyadang]

Oh, I meant to ask too - what about Bandurria tuning?

[JeffD]

I have one, recently acquired. I tune it as you say four courses standard mandolin tuning, but three strings per course.

Its kind fun for chord playing, and some double stops, but the one I have doesn't stay in tune all that well, and its just a pain to keep it in tune. And good intontion is a little harder up the neck.

But its kind of fun and looks real cool. Its a player.

[Jake Wildwood]

Bandurria tuning doesn't make sense -- you'd have to have room or 6 courses -- which you don't on the neck of an Oscar Schmidt 12-y like you have. Bandurria tuning also takes advantage of a shorter (10-12") scale, from what I remember.

That said, it's fun to "octave" one string from the bottom courses.

For gauges, GHS ultra lights 32w-9, and a pack and a half, should do it. If you can get individual strings, 30w, 20w, 13, 8 would be slightly safer.

[giuseppeseverini]

Dear Friend,
I have one of this 12 strings mandolins. They called it "Sicilian mandolin" at the end of XIX and beginning of XX century (G.B.Pisani, Manuale teorico-pratico del mandolinista. Milano, Hoepli.)
Tuning is as you wrote, but use a light tension set.
See the photo of it I posted.
Best regards
Giuseppe Severini

[Jimdalf]

I believe these are sometimes called a Mandriola; as mentioned above an octave tuning makes these extra interesting, I have seen them with the "confusing" octave string hidden out of harms way in the centre of each bass three.. I think.

[Jacob]

Mandriola string sets:

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[anyadang]

thanks for the input everyone... getting the name right, "Mandriola" makes all the difference to Google.

When you octave one string in each course, do you make it an octave higher or lower? And, do you use the same string?

[Tavy]

thanks for the input everyone... getting the name right, "Mandriola" makes all the difference to Google.

When you octave one string in each course, do you make it an octave higher or lower? And, do you use the same string?

Officially, I believe an octave down - and you'd need a much thicker string - actually hard to imagine getting a decent sound on the G course an octave down...

[Jim Garber]

I think Jake has it right. You use lighter octave strings on the lower two courses. You should be able to use the A and E string gauges for those octaves for a 12 string guitar effect. You may also need to recut the bridge and nut slots.

[mandopops]

I wish I had one, I'm sure it would sound great for chords.

I'd heard from Mr. Vicari that the "E" & "A" Strings are unison. The "G" & "D" Strings have one octave string in the middle of the two regular strings. Yes, use an "A" string as the "G" & an "E" string for the"D". Make sense?

Enjoy your new ax.

[Jim Garber]

Joe: They are all around esp the OS ones. They must have cranked them out by the thousands. I did see a 12 string Gibson A at We Buy Guitars in NYC many years ago. Must have been a one-off.

[giuseppeseverini]

I made some experiments about stringing my 12 strings Mandolin, (Mandolino Siciliano), using octaves in the lower courses, but I can tell you that it doesn't work well, at least to my ear.
It clings too much and it is not easy to press the strings properly and get the right intonation on the frets. Bouzuki sound doesn't apply so much to the mandolin.

[anyadang]

Thanks... im a very novice player, so I thing ill stick with the unison tuning in each course.

I ordered my ultra light strings... can't wait to get it all together.

[Jim Garber]

One other thing... if stringing it with 12 strings doesn't cut it for you you can always recut the nut to string it as a wide necked 8 string. I don't know how much heavier they are built but many have lasted these years as 12 strings so as an 8 string it might even take light or even medium gauge strings.

[giuseppeseverini]

A soft pick could be useful.
Try the wheat ones !!!
G.

[brunello97]

Giuseppe, abbiamo bisogno di farti tornare a lavorare per ci mostrare il tuo mandolino Ricca. ;)

Mick

[giuseppeseverini]

Thin picks work better and sound really better on 12 strings mandolin. Please tell me if you agree!
G.

[giuseppeseverini]

I will as soon as possible. If you want have a look on my facebook account. There you find all photos.
G.

[brunello97]

I will as soon as possible. If you want have a look on my facebook account. There you find all photos.
G.

G, Penso che qualcosa non va. Il link non funziona..

Ah! Ho trovato il tuo facebook pagina. Un sacco di foto. È questa la tua officina? Milano o Catania?

Mick

[giuseppeseverini]

Randazzo, provincia of Catania.
I am born in Milan but moved to Sicily in 1994.
In Randazzo I live in that medieval house where I keep my workshop.
G.

[Jim Garber]

Very funny... Mick posts in Italian and Giuseppe in English. :confused:

[brunello97]

Very funny... Mick posts in Italian and Giuseppe in English. :confused:

I hope no one is suffering. If you only knew how much trouble my English gets me into. ;)

Mick

[Glid]

anyadang, you were right to pass on this, I wish I did! Ya, I bought it Friday. It was in okay shape, missing a few teeth around the banding and one screw in the tuning peg. I'm going to use this forums' advise for stringing and tuning, so thanks for that! I'll string it and see how it goes. I agreed to meet the guy and then I noticed the four extra pegs, dang. I happened to be going to Portsmouth last week and met up with Josh in Kittery. Funny you put those pics!

[Jim Garber]

anyadang, you were right to pass on this, I wish I did! Ya, I bought it Friday. It was in okay shape, missing a few teeth around the banding and one screw in the tuning peg.


Ah, the conclusion of this story. So, anyadang did not buy it after all, but Glid did. What does that mean "missing a few teeth around the banding"? oh, I think I know... missing a few pieces of pearl or ebony from the binding on the outer rim of the top.

[Jake Wildwood]

Very funny... Mick posts in Italian and Giuseppe in English. :confused:

...and Jake uses the Mac dashboard translator for BOTH. :)

[Glid]

Ah, the conclusion of this story. So, anyadang did not buy it after all, but Glid did. What does that mean "missing a few teeth around the banding"? oh, I think I know... missing a few pieces of pearl or ebony from the binding on the outer rim of the top.
Yes Jim, it's missing some pearl. I'm pretty sure the tailpiece is a replacement. It's scallop and not flat. OS are usually plain and flat, no? I'll be buying some strings today and working on it over the weekend. I don't know about the missing screw on the tuning gear. Would it be a standard thread, say 6-32? What was the standard in 1900? I'll measure the pitch and pray I can find a replacement. There is a Vintage Fretshop, but I never seem to be in that part of the state when their open!
No splits or cracks! The bridging is solid and the neck is straight. There is hope!

[Glid]

I just found a picture of the tailpiece on a Menzenhauer & Schmidt Mandriola! Probably worth more than the mandolin, hey?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://z.about.com/w/experts/Antique-Musical-Instruments-2370/2009/02/M-mandolin-detail.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.allexperts.com/q/Antique-Musical-Instruments-2370/2009/2/M-S-12-string.htm&h=640&w=479&sz=33&tbnid=xQ-CC6qM7fEBeM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=103&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtwelve%2Bstring%2Bmandolin%26tbm%3Dis ch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=twelve+string+mandolin&hl=en&usg=__XdUG9vkhspV7nRuii5nb68J2Fb0=&sa=X&ei=yamZT4-ZDPKd6AHQwt3jBg&ved=0CBgQ9QEwAw

[Jim Garber]

I think Vintage Fretshop has limited hours these days. I bought something from David last year and he was mostly around i think Thursday and Friday, maybe that is it. I would still try to catch him in terms of getting screw for the gear. You could try some std ones, I suppose. I would take one of the others out to compare to a new one. Good luck.

[Bill Snyder]

Glid those tailpieces are available from Stewart Macdonald here. (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Mandolin_tailpieces/Scalloped_Mandolin_Tailpiece.html)

[Glid]

Bill, thanks for the link!
Jim, Dave has done great work on my 1923 Thompson Banjo. He has quite a collection of instruments in the back of his store! I've been considering an autoharp for some time now, maybe sooner!