Mandola: New or Vintage?

[Marty Henrickson]

For the last several months, I have been thinking about mandolas and octave mandolins. I want an instrument tuned in fifths like a mandolin, but with a lower register more suited to solo vocal accompaniment.

A few weeks ago, I spotted a Weber Gallatin A/F mandola for sale on the website of one of our Cafe sponsors. It is a beautiful instrument, and the sound clips sound very good, though I realize that is fairly difficult to judge through computer speakers. I have now been obsessed with this instrument for nearly four weeks. There is no way I can play this mandola before buying, because the shop is about 1,500 miles away. Still, I have been VERY close to pulling the trigger on a purchase.

Now, a local shop has posted pics on their facebook page of a late '20s Gibson H-1 Mandola. It doesn't seem to have any major issues, but it does haave a few non-original parts, such as the pickguard, tailpiece, and bridge. There is no price given yet, as they are apparently checking it out, and performing any needed work before putting it up for sale.

I feel like I would be very happy with the Weber, but I would also love to own a vintage Gibson one day. Here are a few questions I have:

1) Playability - the Weber has a 1-1/4" neck, radiused fretboard, and a dual-action trussrod. What should I expect from the Gibson?

2) Tone - Okay, so I've heard the Weber - a little - and I know that out of all the sound clips posted on the dealers' site, I prefer the f-hole instruments. I'm looking for a deep, throaty tone, yet focused and not too "loose". What kind of tone should I expect from the Gibson? Is there somewhere I can find a recording of a similar oval-hole Gibson 'dola?

3) Reliability - the new Weber has a limited lifetime warranty, and I would expect it to last me the rest of my life, if given the chance. Will a 90-ish year old instrument hold up to daily play and being left out on a stand? What potential structural issues should I be looking for when / if I get to see the Gibson?

Sorry for the lengthy post. These are the questions that come to mind right now, I may think of more later. Thanks in advance for any replies!

[Marty Henrickson]

Moderators, I'm not sure I posted this is in the right place. If this should be in CBOM, or General Mandolin, please do as you see fit. Thanks!

[allenhopkins]

1. Gibson -- flat fingerboard, single truss rod if the instrument's late 1920's. As to other specs, here's some info posted in a 2005 thread re: Gibson mandola dimensions. (Caveat is that these are for an H-4 rather than an H-1; best I can do. Numbers in parentheses are for a Lawrence Smart instrument, not the Gibson)

This is for an H-4 mandola, circa 1912. Smart differentiated between F and A styles in his own instruments; where they differ, I will put his measurements to the right, in parentheses.
scale length: 15 27/32" (Smart A 15 15/16, F 16 3/8")
nut width: 1 11/32 (1 & 9/32)
width at 12th: 1.75" (1 & 23/32)
strings, outside to outside, at bridge: 1 37/64" (1 & 7/8)
21 frets w extension
depth of neck at 1st fret: 7/8"
depth of neck at 6th fret: 1" plus (Smart, at 8th fret, 15/16)
length of peghead: 7 1/8" (7 & 9/16)
depth of sides only: 1.75" (1 & 25/32)
width of lower bout: 11" (11.25 A, 11 & 3/8 F)
length of body: 15 5/8" w/ scroll (14.25 A, 15 & 3/8 F w scroll)
max height of arch, top: 3/8" (1/2"), top of edge to top of arch
height of bridge; 13/16 - 15/16"
max height of arch, back: 3/8" (9/16")
soundhole dimensions: 2.75" x 1 5/8" oval (4.75" long)
hypothetical bridge point to tail: 5.75" (6 & 11/16 A, 7 & 3/8" F)

2. Here's a decent YouTube clip of a Gibson H-1 playing Fisher's Hornpipe:

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NOTE: disregard Post #5 below; I went back and got a vid of a Gibson H-1 from Bernunzio's inventory -- the Gilchrist is no longer there...

3. If the Gibson's lasted 90 years, and is properly and professionally restored -- and you take care of it -- no reason it shouldn't go another 90. Make sure it's checked for top sinkage, which is a concern in older Gibson carved-top mandos.

[Mandobar]

sometimes buying an instrument is a gut feel.......do they have a return policy?

[sgarrity]

FYI.......that video is of a Gilchrist mandola.

You really need to play some. I tend to prefer ff holes for a mandola. Then I played a '24 H4 this weekend that will knock your socks off!

[trevor]

Hard to be sure without playing both but I would expect the Weber to have a tighter more focused sound, the Gibson to have a more open sound. As to issues over time again its hard to say, a well maintained Gibson should last out.

[Fretbear]

It's amazing to me how much that Gibson mandola in the video sounds more like a tenor banjo than a mandolin. I have never been a huge fan of the oval-hole sound and got rid of a 1917 A-0 that I once owned, but if I did have one, I would prefer that type of tone, which is much less tubby. As far as the OP's desire for something for vocal accompaniment, having been down this road myself I would go for something a little bigger than a mandola like an octave or even a bouzouki.

[Toycona]

I've had the pleasure of test driving the new Collings MT mandola at Gryphon (a local strings shop). I have to agree that the ff design/sound is more pleasing to me than the oval, but I play far more bluegrass than OT/IT music. If I could afford one, I'd have one yesterday!

[Tom Sanderson]

No financial interest here, but I suggest that you check out the Collings MT that is for sale in the classifieds. It's a great deal. I have one and I love it. I have owned and played several mandolas. The Collings MT really has it going on.

[rerefret]

RE: Question 3. You should not leave a quality instrument sitting on a stand or hanging on a wall UNLESS you have a humidity /temperature gauge sitting close by. Any humidity lower than 30% is a red flag or higher than 80% . I imagine some builders will ring in with different numbers but you get my drift. If you're in a conditioned space it can easily get too dry in a cold winter. If you don't have a good sealing case( sorry, that $70 TKL isn't really one but with a UKE humidifier it can suffice) get a good case if you're in a very dry or very wet climate .

[Marty Henrickson]

Thanks for all the replies and info, and I'm sorry for not acknowledging them sooner.

After much thought, I am getting ready to pull the trigger on that Weber.

[trevor]

"I am getting ready to pull the trigger on that Weber."

Weber make great instruments but they are not bullet proof.

Sorry.. its Friday afternoon (this side of the pond).

[Marty Henrickson]

Good point, Trevor! But just think, if I was on your side of the pond, I would likely be calling on you to "execute" this sale!:grin:

[trevor]

I don't think we do executions over here...:))

[Marty Henrickson]

If I keep buying instruments, my wife may execute me!

[Lee]

There's quite a difference between a mandola and an octave mandolin. Mainly the length of the neck of an octave mandolin requires completly different fingering methods than a mandola. Compared to a mandolin at approx. 13-7/8" scale length, the mandola is typically at 16"~17". The octave mandolin is up there in the 22" range, therefore it's a completely different instrument, as far as fingering, as compared to the mandolin and mandola.

[Marty Henrickson]

There's quite a difference between a mandola and an octave mandolin. Mainly the length of the neck of an octave mandolin requires completly different fingering methods than a mandola. Compared to a mandolin at approx. 13-7/8" scale length, the mandola is typically at 16"~17". The octave mandolin is up there in the 22" range, therefore it's a completely different instrument, as far as fingering, as compared to the mandolin and mandola.

Yes, that was a major factor in my decision to go with the mandola instead of an octave or a 'cello.

[multidon]

If you tune your mandola DAEB you get the best of both worlds. The easier more mandolin-like fingering patterns with a lot of the notes of an OM. I did that and I think of this as a "compact" octave mandolin. No bottom G course, but the addition of a bonus high B course. I really like it, and find it very useful and easy to play. Most of my music doesn't use the G course that often, and when it does I just take it up an octave. If you decide to try this I suggest ordering single strings to make a custom set using the string tensions of the manufacturer's recommended CGDA set as a reference. Graham MacDonald's On Line String Tension Calculator is a good resource for figuring this out.

[trevor]

With that tuning you can also capo at the 5th fret to get GDAE.

[rerefret]

But then you'd be playing a mandolin!

[Marcus CA]

I don't think that you're going to have buyer's remorse on this one. I've never played the mandola that you ended up buying, but I did put a lot of playtime on a Gallatin F mandola that was at Sylvan Music in Santa Cruz for quite a while --- so long that I was wondering how they could still call it a new instrument --- and it had an absolutely gorgeous tone.

With the vintage Gibsons, so much depends on the journey they've had over the decades. I've never played a vintage H that I liked anywhere near as much as that Gallatin F or the weeks-old Collings MT2 that I played at NAMM last year. I've played maybe a dozen Gibson A mandos from the days when Woodrow Wilson ruled the land, and there has been an incredible range of tonal quality among them. Once your local store puts that H out, have fun taking it out for a test spin, just so you'll know.

[Lee]

Don,
Your DAEB tuning has struck me as useful too. I like playing a 4-string solid-body emando with a 14-1/2" scale tuned CGDA with extremely light strings for bending. By mistake a couple times I tuned by ear (not by fork) and found myself one whole step sharp at DAEB. I should put more time on there.

[Marcelyn]

I don't know if you bought the mandola yet, but if the Gibson H2 is local, you may want to just give it a try first. The good ones are powerful, loud, and packed with even more sustain than the Gibson mandolins. I know I wouldn't leave mine out on a stand like you ask, but I wouldn't leave a mandola made last year on a stand either. If the H2 is getting looked over and set up in a reputable shop, I'd trust it to be in sound shape for quite a few more decades. Also, if you're looking for vocal accompaniment primarily--it seems to me that oval hole may be the way to go. One last thing... One big consideration on mandolas is scale length. Personally, I love the comfortable 15 3/4" gibson scale length which feels pretty much like a giant mandolin. An inch and a quarter might not seem like much, but from what I hear from other mandola players, it's a big consideration.

[citeog]

I don't think we do executions over here...:))

Well, not since the Pierreponts hung it up (sorry, couldn't resist).

Paul