Would've Thought The Majority Of Mando Players Here Were Bluegras

[drbluegrass]

...Not that there's anything wrong with that, LOL!! I've only been a participant here for a year or so and I 'm not so sure that BG players are even in the majority? Seems maybe about 50% at best? What percentage would you estimate as BG'ers and what other genres are represented on The Cafe?


Tom

[Jim Garber]

I don't know how you can tell, but maybe this is some indication:


Bluegrass, Newgrass, Country, Gospel Variants
Threads: 3,834
Posts: 42,163

Rock, Folk Rock, Roots Rock, Rockabilly
Threads: 851
Posts: 9,614


Old-Time, Roots, Early Country, Cajun, Tex-Mex
Threads: 644
Posts: 8,287


Jazz, Swing, Blues, Bossa, Choro, Klezmer, World
Threads: 1,763
Posts: 14,142


Celtic, U.K., Nordic, Quebecois, European Folk
Threads: 1,220
Posts: 14,516

Classical, Medieval, Renaissance
Threads: 2,326
Posts: 36,322

[drbluegrass]

Thanks Jim. I guess that would be a pretty good indication.


Tom

[Jason Kessler]

Agreed. Thanks, Jim.

The surprise in those stats, for me anyway, is the huge number if posts in the Classical, Medieval, Renaissance forum.

[JeffD]

I would say that bluegrassers are the largest definable minority of the cafe members. Something between 1/3 and not quite half I guess.

[Jim Garber]

Well, sort of. It would not account for bluegrass lurkers and loudmouths like my self who post everywhere (esp classical) but bluegrass-related threads.

It all makes sense, esp what JeffD says -- most people these days, in North America, get into mandolin thru bluegrass.

[neil argonaut]

While that would give a rough indication, it could be very rough, as it could be that fans/players of other styles are commenting more on technique / building / equipment etc threads, and the majority of threads don't seem to be tied to one particular genre. Even on the bluegrass threads, I'm sure there's a lot of people commenting who's main style of playing is celtic, old time, Jazz etc. All these numbers absolutely confirm is that it's the most talked about style on here, though that's a fairly decent indication of it's popularity.
I get the impression BG certainly seems to be the most popular style, but maybe not as much as 50%.

[neil argonaut]

most people these days, in North America, get into mandolin thru bluegrass.
I'm sure the reverse is also sometimes true.

[Jim Garber]

I'm sure the reverse is also sometimes true.

You mean that some people get into bluegrass thru mandolin or get into North America thru mandolin. Or what? :)

[JeffD]

If you include the whole world, bluegrass mandolin players are a small percentage of all mandolin players.

[JeffD]

I would also hazard a guess that in many countries more folks per capita play mandolin than in the US. And most of that not bluegrass.

For folks in the US its kind of like shoping at, I don't know, say Albertsons, could be Giant Markets, or Shop Rite, or whatever, but say Albertsons, and looking around and thinking, "wow, most folks must shop at Alberstons".


All that being said, bluegrass has had and continues to have a huge impact on the mandolin and mandolin culture.

[JeffD]

I made a bet (and lost) with a young friend of mine, when Chris Thile was first on Jay Leno, that mandolin was going to get so popular that soon enough everyone would know someone who played mandolin, in fact, a friend of hers would be playing mandolin within a year. It turned out her sister started playing mandolin within the year. But, as I was reminded, "she's my sister, not my friend". Nobody else, in either of their lives, except me, plays mandolin.

[neil argonaut]

That some people get into bluegrass through mandolin, Certainly, although I liked bluegrass it before I picked up a mandolin, it wasn't the prime factor in me choosing the instrument, and ever since, Ive got far far more into bluegrass.

[Jeffff]

Not only did bluegrass not bring to the mandolin, before I heard it live I didn't like it at all. Seeing a live band play it changed my perspective.

[mandolino maximus]

Mandolin seems to be in a niche hidden behind violin, but still it is everywhere and that seems amazing. Love the fact that Mandolin Cafe has a very large international component. It may be the niche nature that makes a general mandolin community appreciative of the instrument's variouis capabilities possible.

Ken Jethro Burns put the positive image of mandolin in my head as a kid. When I thought of bluegrass, I didn't automatically think of mandolin back then (banjo and fiddle). I also got through a music degree playing a brass instrument emphasizing classical (American institution) without hearing a mandolin of any genre. I didn't even learn that Beethoven wrote mandolin pieces for a person that has my family's last name. Years later, I happened on a concert of old time music in the Ozarks and fell in love with the mandolin sound. Leading to mandolin and genres associated with it. Treasures hidden in plain sight if you ask me. Thanks to Jethro for impressing the images of virtuosity and versatility from the beginning.

That said, there are a few things as good as a great bluegrass break on the mandolin, and some of those involve a mandolin too. But nothing better.

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

I didn't even learn that Beethoven wrote mandolin pieces for a person that has my family's last name.

Ah yes, the lost overture "The Ruins of Magnus Maximus"! ;)

Cheers
MRT

[JeffD]

Not only did bluegrass not bring to the mandolin, before I heard it live I didn't like it at all. Seeing a live band play it changed my perspective.


I know what you mean. I wasn't much into bluegrass for years and years, but after going to a few concerts and jamming with folks I really learned to love it.

[allenhopkins]

Started playing mandolin because I wanted to play bluegrass; I had found an A-1 in my grandfather's attic, so that made me the mandolin player, with my brother John on guitar and my friend Bob on banjo. If I hadn't liked the music, who knows if what I would have done with that ol' Gibson...?

[mrmando]

A good number of mandolin players, and thus a good number of Cafe folks, are interested in more than one style of music.

[JeffD]

One thing is certanly true, we are a lot more diverse bunch than one would ever think.

Yea we all play mandolin, but some of us read music, some don't, some of us play in a band or two, many of us don't, some of us jam with others, many of us mostly play for friends and at home, some of us can't see the point of playing music if not to express ourselves, others just want to play tunes, many of us love to improvise, many of us don't see the point of real time composition in front of others, we like bluegrass, jazz, old time, contra dance, Irish, Scottish, Swedish, Finnish, Norwegian, Italian, Greek, Eastern European, classical, medeival, rennaissance, broadway, folk, blues, klezmer, rock, pop rock, some of us teach, some of us learn, some of us teach ourselves, some of us collect 'em, others just play 'em, some fix 'em, some build 'em, mostly we all just love 'em.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quite correct Jeff.That's what makes this site so brilliant. We may begin by being interested in say,one genre of Mandolin music,but if you need info.about other genres of Mandolin music,then it's all here for the reading & learning,
Ivan

[Barry Wilson]

I am a rock guy because of mandolin has found bluegrass. and what started as a novelty has become an addiction...

I think you'd have to run a poll to be sure.

[Jack Roberts]

I enjoy listening to bluegrass, but I consider bluegrass a level of proficiency beyond my meager talents. I go to listen to the great BG players when I can, but I traded away my F5 style mandolin and I stick to old fiddle tunes, old hymns, late 19th and early 20th century popular songs, and Bach.

[JeffD]

I enjoy listening to bluegrass, but I consider bluegrass a level of proficiency beyond my meager talents. I go to listen to the great BG players when I can, but I traded away my F5 style mandolin and I stick to old fiddle tunes, old hymns, late 19th and early 20th century popular songs, and Bach.

You may be on to something. To participate in bluegrass, as a mandolinner, the bar is kind of high. In other kinds of music there is a lot of good stuff a medium mandolin player can do effectively to add to the fun for everyone. In BG it seems sometimes that there is no room for you if you aren't a hot picker.

[mandolirius]

...Not that there's anything wrong with that, LOL!! I've only been a participant here for a year or so and I 'm not so sure that BG players are even in the majority? Seems maybe about 50% at best? What percentage would you estimate as BG'ers and what other genres are represented on The Cafe?


Tom

100% of the real mandolin players are bluegrass. There's some that play that other stuff, jazz and classical and whatnot but that stuff ain't no part of nuthin' on mandolin.

[JeffD]

100% of the real mandolin players are bluegrass. There's some that play that other stuff, jazz and classical and whatnot but that stuff ain't no part of nuthin' on mandolin.

:))

[frshwtrbob]

100% of the real mandolin players are bluegrass. There's some that play that other stuff, jazz and classical and whatnot but that stuff ain't no part of nuthin' on mandolin.

I play the mandolin but I'm not a "real" mandolin player.

[journeybear]

I don't know how you can tell, but maybe this is some indication:

Gonna stick with the "maybe" there. These are the genre fora, which receive a lot less traffic than General Mandolin Discussions - that is, these statistics do not indicate a representative sampling of the membership. I think the reason Classical is second on that list has something to do with people interested in that area being not so interested in popular music (ie, non-classical) as far as the mandolin goes, and thus hanging out in that forum rather than General. I can't say for sure, but this seems a reasonable assumption. Conversely, I'm pretty sure that rock players hang out in General more often than the Rock genre forum - proportionally, that is - judging by how often their contributions show up there. There is also an American bias, owing to the nationalistic breakdown of the membership.

I don't play a lot of bluegrass, though I have explored it and gone to a lot of festivals and picking parties, and even had a band going for a little while, and still play it occasionally in two of my bands, though not as a prominent part of the repertoires. I came to it from a rock background, and it was an instrument that I could play (after failed attempt at guitar and more successful experience with bass), and sounded pleasant to my ears, which kept me interested long enough to become reasonably proficient on it. But it was music I wanted to play, not necessarily any one genre, and the mandolin was a means of facilitating this, as well as enabling self-expression via songwriting in addition to instrumental playing. Of course, I learned to play bluegrass - it was expected, after all - but I saw no reason to limit myself to one genre, but rather tried to play in as many as I could, reflecting my own varied musical tastes. (I would have to add swing, calypso, and reggae to Jeff's list in post #20, though that could be just me.)

I say all this by way of explaining why I believe there is more, much more, that the mandolin is capable of doing than playing bluegrass. Indeed, I bristle when it is suggested that that is what is expected of it, or all it is meant to do, even though that is the most common association most people have with it. I have come to pretty much expect that attitude from people unfamiliar with the instrument, as bluegrass IS probably its most common application - at least as far as the general public knows. But here, where people have had considerable experience with the mandolin and have hopefully explored its capabilities, it is actually disheartening to learn people still cling to what I see is a somewhat antiquated view of the mandolin. I would like to think mandolinists have evolved since the heyday of bluegrass - over fifty years ago. I'm all for the instrument being played as well as possible, but that includes more, much more, than bluegrass.

As much as David Grisman and others have accomplished since then, and even though there have been some big pop hits featuring mandolin, and it does show up in country and rock more often than it used to, it still plays a larger role, proportionately, in bluegrass than any other popular music form (in America, anyway, though certainly not in Italy. ;) ) And even with their involvement in a tradition that has deep roots and goes back decades, it shouldn't come as that much of a surprise that bluegrass players here do NOT represent a majority. I would hope they wouldn't be; the instrument and its players and applications should have been evolving. I would also not be surprised if bluegrass players represent a sizable minority, perhaps the largest one. It's understandable, as so many excellent mandolinists have played bluegrass and had long careers playing lots of shows and producing lots of recordings, thus contributing greatly to public awareness of the instrument. It is also a genre which provides many opportunities for mandolinists to play very impressive instrumental passages, and even lead a band and become a star. But the mandolin, like most instruments, is capable of being played in a great variety of ways. Personally, I resent being pigeonholed, being subjected to the assumption that since I play mandolin I must play bluegrass. I understand when someone comes up to me from the audience or on the street and assumes this - it's probably all they know - but at the Café, people should know better.

Ultimately, sadly, as much as we love our mandolins, we are pretty small fish in a pretty small pond. As long as we play an instrument mostly known for playing a small niche genre with a minuscule market share and very limited visibility or public awareness, we're bound to be stuck here in pretty stagnant waters. Apologies to Bill Monroe, but as far as most people are concerned, both bluegrass and mandolin ain't no part of nothin'. :(

[JEStanek]

I'm with Jack Roberts on this except I listen to less Bluegrass than other genres but I do appreciate a good BG instrumental. Some may consider it heretical but I can't listen to Bill Monroe recordings for more than a song or so. I like how Compton and others perform his music I just can't handle the recording quality and that high lonesome singing.

I do bet the majority of viewers, users of this forum are likely to be BG folks but when you've got multiple genres to pick from the majority may be in the 30% range and not the 50-80% range.

Jamie

Jamie

[journeybear]

Sorry for the length of my rant, but not the gist of it. I may be overthinking this stuff - happens - but some things just set me off, and one of them is people underthinking things. Anyway ... It may well be true that more viewers are interested in bluegrass applications than any other single genre, but that does not constitute a majority - there are way too many genres - but rather the largest minority. Maybe I could have just left it there, guess I couldn't ... Oh well ... :whistling:

[drbluegrass]

I plead plain ol' ignorance. I've only been interested in playing mandolin for about a year or so and I'm relatively new here. I do have a strong preference for BG on the mandolin but I also really like jazz (especially swing) on the mando too. Can't say that I can remember hearing classical played on a mandolin but I'd like to hear it.


Tom

[JEStanek]

Since it's Bach's birthday....
hSZ40V0teGM

[Beanzy]

Mandolin brought bluegrass to me.
I've avoided too much of the ITM so far as I played so much on the whistles etc there's no point in doing that yet.
classical is just so much part of what I've always done I can't imagine not doing it.
But my core pursuit is the BG & OT jamming at the moment.

One thing I would say is this is an English language forum so we'll get a very poor 1st hand perspective on the non-english speaking world where the mandolin holds a cente stage place in the music culture. I'm thinking specifically of Italy & Greece here.

[Jim Yates]

I enjoy playing bluegrass and would not want to give it up, but I would go nuts if it were all I could play. I love playing jug band tunes and Irish, Welsh, Celtic, blues, folk, swing and even a bit of classical mandolin. My sister-in-law is Lithuanian and I have learned a few tunes from her culture. My daughter-in-law, while she was born in Canada, is of Filipino heritage and I have learned some Filipino tunes on the banduria as a result. I have arranged Joseph Spence tunes from the Bahamas for twin mandolins and today was working on a twin mandolin version of Irving Berlin's Blue Skies. I'm no David Grisman, just a fairly average mandolin player, but I have varied tastes.

[Bernie Daniel]

I enjoy playing bluegrass and would not want to give it up, but I would go nuts if it were all I could play. I love playing jug band tunes and Irish, Welsh, Celtic, blues, folk, swing and even a bit of classical mandolin. My sister-in-law is Lithuanian and I have learned a few tunes from her culture. My daughter-in-law, while she was born in Canada, is of Filipino heritage and I have learned some Filipino tunes on the banduria as a result. I have arranged Joseph Spence tunes from the Bahamas for twin mandolins and today was working on a twin mandolin version of Irving Berlin's Blue Skies. I'm no David Grisman, just a fairly average mandolin player, but I have varied tastes.

And you have a massive collection of Canadian fiddle tunes to learn on your mandolin starting from Western onto the Ottawa Valley and then to Cape Breton!! Good luck!

[JeffD]

Can't say that I can remember hearing classical played on a mandolin but I'd like to hear it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svvM2a3dUMo

[Appalachia]

I'm not a fan of bluegrass at all. I got into the mandolin during my freshman year of high school from hearing Eric Robertson play a menagerie of styles around campus during lunches and after school. I liked the sound of the mandolin, but initially the main reason I wanted to start playing one was because of the size; I wasn't a fan of the width of the fingerboard on guitars, but didn't mind the the extra stretch going along the fingerboard that happens on mandolins from the fifths tuning. This meant that I was really introduced to the instrument independent of genre, which I think is a good thing, because, honestly, if I had been introduced to the mandolin through bluegrass, I doubt I would've ever had an interest in it.

Now, more on styles. I'm not into bluegrass, jazz, classical, klezmer, celtic, swing, blues, and many of the other mainstays, so I'd say that I'm probably in a very small minority on this board. As for what styles I am interested in, others would probably classify it as newgrass, but I feel as though newgrass has become used to describe any new music with bluegrass instrumentation, which is just too broad to be useful in my opinion. The Punch Brothers latest album is probably the closest thing to an example I could give for what I'm into, but it isn't quite adequate; while it's most definitely not a bluegrass album, it still has it's heritage in bluegrass. To clarify a little more I'd say that the mandolin music I'm most into is acoustic indie-pop with and experimental slant towards chord progressions and melody (that's a mouth-full). Pretty much I'm interested in the "what isn't quite yet to be" (that makes me sound like a trendster; I promise, I'm not). I'm definitely more interested in the percussive chordal use of the mandolin than it's melodic use, just not a constant every offbeat percussive chordal use ;).

[pefjr]

A good number of mandolin players, and thus a good number of Cafe folks, are interested in more than one style of music.Correct, can't hold down a musician to one genre, that'd be cruel and unusual punishment. Can't hold them to one musical instrument either. I told the wife this , but... she said, " Stop right there!.. I ain't buying nothing beyond what you just said!!"

[JeffD]

[QUOTE=Appalachia;1036306]This meant that I was really introduced to the instrument independent of genre, which I think is a good thing,

I guess I can say the same thing. I was (and still am) more enamored of the mandolin, than any particular type of music played on it. Its good for me at least because it keeps things fun.


Now, more on styles. I'm not into bluegrass, jazz, classical, klezmer, celtic, swing, blues, and many of the other mainstays,

I was going to make a joke here, and say "So umm... I guess that leaves, umm... acoustic indie-pop with and experimental slant towards chord progressions and melody." But I won't.


so I'd say that I'm probably in a very small minority on this board.

Aren't we all?

Seriously for a second. I like it all. I really do. My main passions change, but I don't dislike too much. Who knows, I may even develop a passion for acoustic indie-pop with and experimental slant towards chord progressions and melody, once I hear some. I understand it "isn't quite yet to be".

:)

The main thing is, however, and always has been, the instrument itself, for the reasons you mentioned plus my own contrarian anti-whatever is too popular leanings.

[Jim Yates]

And you have a massive collection of Canadian fiddle tunes to learn on your mandolin starting from Western onto the Ottawa Valley and then to Cape Breton!! Good luck!

I do play many Canadian Fiddle tunes on the mandolin, Bernie, and attend local old time fiddle contests (as a spectator - my fiddle playing is restricted to inside my house when my wife and the cats are all out).
I often play through books of Canadian fiddle tunes compiled by Don Messer and Jamie Snider and others. I don't know why that slipped my mind.

[journeybear]

... the mandolin music I'm most into is acoustic indie-pop with and experimental slant towards chord progressions and melody ...

Now just a second - that's a typo, right? Did you mean to say "acoustic indie-pop with an experimental slant towards chord progressions and melody?" That makes grammatical sense to me. Musical sense, too. ;)


I'm definitely more interested in the percussive chordal use of the mandolin than its melodic use, just not a constant every offbeat percussive chordal use ;).

I hear you. The rhythmic role for mandolin in bluegrass, in its customary, traditional application, IS pretty limiting. It keeps things moving, though, and in opposition with the bass playing on the down beat it can really swing. But yeah, there is a whole lot more you can do with it than that, and if you are interested in exploring these possibilities you will probably find more satisfaction in other genres. That's one thing I like about all three acts I play in - each operates in a few genres, and I get to mix it up a lot. It's been a long time since I played in a strictly bluegrass band, and that role - chop a lot, pick a little (sounds like a song from "The Music Man," doesn't it?) - is something I don't miss. But I do use it when called for, and even throw it in sometimes in non-bluegrass tunes. It's one tool in the toolbox, one color in the pallette, and while it would be a drag if that's all you ever got to do, it would be a shame not to use it when it's the right thing at the time.

[Appalachia]

Now just a second - that's a typo, right? Did you mean to say "acoustic indie-pop with an experimental slant towards chord progressions and melody?" That makes grammatical sense to me. Musical sense, too. ;)

Yep, that's a typo. Thanks.

[drbluegrass]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svvM2a3dUMo


Thanks Jeff. That was very cool.


Tom

[JeffD]

I am going out on a limb here, but I am going to guess that there are more choro fans than there are bluegrass fans. While Brazil only has 2/3 the population of the US, choro is a lot more popular in Brazil than bluegrass is in the US. I might even guess that there are more choro mandolin/bandolim players than bluegrass mandolin players.

That doesn't show up in the cafe statistics, however.