Old Gibson A

[Yellowmandolin]

My orchestra director brought out this mando that was given to her by her mother. How do I tell what year it is? There are some weird things about it, however. On the head stock, there is no designation that it is a Gibson. Also the bridge is non adjustable. It looks similar to #50436 on the mandolin archive and has a green lined hard shell case. Any infomation on this mandolin would be greatly apreciated. I'll post some pictures later tonight.

[fatt-dad]

I have 56111 and somewhere (maybe a link from the Gibson web page) there is a decode the serial number list. Mine is 1919 - a whiteface A-3. I think you will find if there is no "the Gibson" inlay or other embellishments, it may be an "A" or "A-0" model. I would guess it's from 1917 or 1918, based on the serial number.

f-d

[Yellowmandolin]

Yea, it doesn't say A-3 or anything, just A. Thanks.

[mandroid]

a) there is #a paper label inside?
Models add features; Jr has no binding, then there is top edge binding, my 21 A(nil),is thus,(I had a luthier add some fretboard sidemarkers since it came without)
back binding, inlaid gibson script in head stock , more rings around the sound hole, fretboard binding etc. #adding a feature (and labor)at a time.
you can go to the home page and ckick on sponsor links. Gibson themselves, gave me a reply to serial # year relationship and how they were priced way back then. ($88&change, for an A4 in 1920)
Cruise some of the resellers sites to see #different models for comparison pictures.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Yellowmandolin]

There is a paper label inside and no back binding. There are 2 rings around the sound hole. One kind of inside, like binding and another guitar like rosette outside. No fingerboard binding either.

[mandroid]

seems a plain jane A , if thats what is stamped on the paper label.
gibson said those sold for $44 in 1920 , so all those added features doubled the cost of the model 4.
greater pricing difference now from F9 to a master or yer hero signature F5 model.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Yellowmandolin]

It has a really wide grained top. Was that common among the early Gibsons? My 2003 F5G has a pretty tight grain comparativly. Also, what it the story with the non adjustable bridge? Did the current style only come about after Lloyd Loar got involved?

[grandmainger]

Not an expert on this, but from the Mandolin Archive:
# 50077 : 1919
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?556

#50436 : 1919
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2578

I'm not sure how strict Gibson were with their numbering back then, but I'd say yours is likely to be from 1919 also, since it's between those two...

By the way, if you have any photos of the beast, I think the mandolin Archive will be happy to add this mando to the collection! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Yellowmandolin]

Yea...My dad is busy downstairs taking some pictures to share. #My photography skills are pathetic. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[grandmainger]

Yea...My dad is busy downstairs taking some pictures to share. #My photography skills are pathetic. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Excellent!

Make sure you get as clear a pic of the label as possible, as it is always interesting, and one of the best ways to get info on the origin.

[jasona]

Its from 1919. (http://www.rexc.com/services/gibson_serial.htm)

Gotta love Google!

[danb]

interesting serial numbers on that link, currently we believe Gibson started with 2500 in 1902.. anyway...

Yes, probably a 1919. If you can send us pictures, please do. ALso, check inside above the label. There will be an ink stamp number on the neck block that will help to date your mandolin as well..

[jasona]

interesting serial numbers on that link, currently we believe Gibson started with 2500 in 1902.. anyway...
Presumably the source of the data come from the horse's mouth (http://www.gibson.com/downloads/bluebook/GibsonSERIALNUMBERS.pdf) (warning, direct dl of a pdf). Might the bluebook need correcting Dan?

(I am not an expert on old Gibsons, I just use the documents I can find.)

[fatt-dad]

Doesn't the referenced link suggest that the earlist serial number for 1919 is 53800? And, if so wouldn't the subject mandolin be from 1918?

f-d

[danb]

Those charts are all supposition. The stuff that is quite certain is from the Loar-signed instruments, which also have a day/month/year on them. It's really conjecture at the boundaries of the "years".. the stamp numbers are an interesting way to cross-check though. A stamp number indicates a "Batch".. at the factory there were literally carts wheeled around to different stations with piles of parts in progress, and those would be often in groups of 40 that were the same batch.. they didn't end up sequentially serial numbered though.. and a lot of instruments were definitely completed much later than they were started. A lot of interesting stuff in the Loar picture thread follow these odd patterns of late releases..

Anyway, The earliest known numbered gibson we have is 2526, which matches catalog images from the very first year of production. It's cool as all get out as well http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

The original records from Gibson are thought to be lost, though there are occasional rumors that some of these notes and log books are in private collections..

So yes, it could be 1918 or 1919.. there are a few instruments where there is other information to date them (receipts, notes etc in the case) that fall outside the generally accepted numbers from that chart. I've had a project in mind to comb deeper into the stuff in the archive to improve the charts at some point, but at the moment I really just need more records! 3,000 records I have for serials 2500-99999.. so I'm not really to a point yet where I have a good sample http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Yellowmandolin]

Here are some pictures:

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2959873-lg.jpg

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2959866-lg.jpg

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2959861-lg.jpg

Dan, if you email me I can get you any shot you want for the archive, if you are interested.

[danb]

Cool, I'm a sucker for that Gibson Brown http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I usually do
a full shot of the front (already here)
a full shot of the back
a shot of just the "Face" (front minus neck)
a shot of just the back (back minus neck)
Bouns points for label, tailpiece.. tuners, peghead, case..

The size you posted already would be great, I usually just end up shrinking/recompressing images anyway, if you want to post them here I can pick them up for the listing. It's more fun to see the chatter about it too really http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Yellowmandolin]

My director want to get it all fixed put, where would you send it? It has some mildew and some dents in the top. It is also missing the pickguard, anyone know where to get a repo one? Thanks.

[Darryl Wolfe]

a-models available too (http://www.f5journal.com/reproductions.html)

[Yellowmandolin]

Thanks, I'll let her know.

[jasona]

Thanks for the info Dan. I love this old history

[Yellowmandolin]

Here are some other pictures:

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2961973-lg.jpg

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2961979-lg.jpg

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2961977-lg.jpg

[Yellowmandolin]

Some more:

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2961973-lg.jpg

Why is the grain so wide on the bass side and so close on the treble?
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2961971-lg.jpg

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/2961965-lg.jpg

[Yellowmandolin]

Dan, the stamp on the neck block is 11147. I checked on the archive and couldn't find anything matching though. Does that look like a valid number?

[mandroid]

Kewl,I like Chocolate too.. My A #66702 about the same , cept 21, and one of them new fangled aluminum top adjustable bridges,
years later got 21 A4 # 69219 tighter grain top, redburst, ebony top adjustable bridge , trussrod with nickle plated cover so no one missed the added feature, i guess.

[Jeroen]

I have A #68723, block #11619, chocolate, paddlehead, nickle covered trussrod. Weird thing is: On the back of the headstock is in handwriting "John O Connell 1920", and the mandolin is supposed to be from 1921.

I post the info here because Dan Beimborn might be interested in that.
I thought the tables on the internet were pretty accurate until I read above that "there are a few instruments where there is other information to date them (receipts, notes etc in the case) that fall outside the generally accepted numbers from that chart"