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Brad Davis
Mar-03-2012, 9:40pm
OK....I think I have about talked myself into scooping out the extended fretboard on my The Loar 700. The sweet spot is right where I need to pick and I cannot stand the clicking anymore. I just had a bridge and tailpiece put on it with complete setup including leveling the frets. I think my wife will kill me if I sink anymore money in it.

My dad is an experienced woodworker and with his guidance and my nerves, I think we can do it. I looked at previous posts about....read the article on frets.com.

My plan is to mount a dremel with a router bit on a small board. Mount it to my fret board and gradually take material down until I get to the level/depth of where I want and then continue to the end. Sand until smooth.

What can I use to take the frets out? I've never taken frets out before....I suppose I can take needle nose or something and get them out but do not know if there is a "trick" to it.

Any advice or guidance on this little project would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Richard Eskite
Mar-03-2012, 10:19pm
I scooped the fretboard extension on my Loar 400. I used some parallel jaw square face pliers I had in my collection of stuff to pull the fret wires. Getting the fret wires pulled wasn't that hard since I wasn't worried if the wood splintered a little bit, since I was going to cut it down anyway. On my mandolin, the grooves for the fret wires were REALLY DEEP. By the time I had them cut down with the Dremel, there wasn't a lot of material left. What's left is very thin, but I'd still have to say it came out great. Once I had the rough cutting done with the Dremel in the router attachment, I used a round file to cove the end of the cut, then various papers to smooth things up. I gave it a touch of Danish Oil once I was done and it matches the tone of the fretboard nicely.

Brad Davis
Mar-03-2012, 10:36pm
You don't happen to have any pics of the finished job do you? My plan is to take pics of this whole process and post it. Seems to have a lot of interest. I'm not really sure what purpose (other than looks) the extended fret board provides. It's providing me with a lot of frustration (pick click and drag)....mission accomplished there.....

My Dad is freaking out that we are even considering doing this, but I'm not worried at all. He's affraid that it's going to get messed up. It would be helpful to know how much material is left on your extended board so that I am prepared on how deep I will have to go to be even with the fret grooves.

Thanks!

Marc Berman
Mar-03-2012, 11:14pm
Frets.com (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/DropTongue/droptongue.html) has an article on it. Here's one (http://hamlettinstruments.com/repair-services/mandolin-fingerboard-extender-scoop)doing with hand tools.

Paul Hostetter
Mar-03-2012, 11:17pm
Frets.com (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Mandolin/DropTongue/droptongue.html) is your friend.

I've done this procedure at least a hundred times, and after pulling the frets with the right tool, which Frank shows, I do the gross removal with a small chisel and files, rather than with a Dremel, as Frank does. The main piece of advice if you haven't done this before: easy does it.

Paul Hostetter
Mar-03-2012, 11:20pm
BTW, there's a parallel thread that's inappropriately titled "scalloping the fingerboard" here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?42577-Scalloped-nbsp-fingerboard). Scooping and scalloping are very different things; you have the right term.

While I was posting, Marc put up a link to John Hamlett's method which is identical to mine.

mandotrout777
Mar-04-2012, 12:40am
I scooped the fretboard extension on my Loar 400. I used some parallel jaw square face pliers I had in my collection of stuff to pull the fret wires. Getting the fret wires pulled wasn't that hard since I wasn't worried if the wood splintered a little bit, since I was going to cut it down anyway. On my mandolin, the grooves for the fret wires were REALLY DEEP. By the time I had them cut down with the Dremel, there wasn't a lot of material left. What's left is very thin, but I'd still have to say it came out great. Once I had the rough cutting done with the Dremel in the router attachment, I used a round file to cove the end of the cut, then various papers to smooth things up. I gave it a touch of Danish Oil once I was done and it matches the tone of the fretboard nicely.

I did this on one of my mandolins and had same deal; really deep grooves from the frets that had to be ground down pretty far. It was so thin when finished that I didn't like the way it looked. When I had it done with another mandolin, I had the guy who did it put white plastic "fake frets" in the deep grooves and then he only had to scoop it down just deep enough for pick clearance. It looks great (to me anyway).

MikeEdgerton
Mar-04-2012, 7:57am
I did my Gibson F5G years ago using Frank Ford's instructions to start with. I used a small laminate trimmer (router) and I have to say that the seconds before I got ready to hit that fingerboard with the router were agonizing. I ended up finishing mine with sharp chisels, files and ever finer sand paper grades. I think if I was doing it again I would probably not use the router. If you can get a large laminate sample from your Home Depot or Lowes (not the small ones, the larger ones) and tape it under the fretboard extension. That gives you a little grace if you slip with a hand tool.

Barry Wilson
Mar-04-2012, 8:37am
I was just going to do initial hacking with a flat rasp file then sand varying grades. even playing guitar I tend to rest my hand on the bridge. that puts my picking right over the extension. I'll attack mine this week sometime

I almost want to cut it off and see if I can't save some binding to glue back. if I scoop it, the binding is toast. doesn't look too bad under my extension. a small hazy area I could polish out.

Stephen Perry
Mar-04-2012, 8:41am
The white inlay makes sense. I've just used super glue & ebony dust to fill the slots.

I'm convinced the ebony doesn't care what cuts it, just that it ends up where it needs to be!

MikeEdgerton
Mar-04-2012, 8:51am
The binding doesn't have to be toast. Look at Frank Ford's example.

Bill Snyder
Mar-04-2012, 8:57am
Mike,I think he means if he scoops it and then decides to cut it off there won't be any chance of salvaging some binding to reuse across the cut. However if he were to cut it off from the start he might be able to salvage some binding to use.

William Smith
Mar-04-2012, 9:46am
This Is a cool fix anyone can do,,just ake your time,,Dummy me scooped out the end of my extention on my Randy Wood Re-neck old 30's F-7 and well ended up hitting the spot where the pickguard attatchment peg goes into the fretboard!,nothin major to me althogh at the time I was freaked! so now I have to fix that eventually with an inlay or another piece of ebony! Take yo'time!

Mike Snyder
Mar-04-2012, 10:36am
Kudos to you skilled persons. I had mine scooped by the luthier when it was in for refret and radius. My F5G is beat, scarred and dirty but taking chisels or (cringe) a router to it gives me the willies.

Paul Hostetter
Mar-04-2012, 12:38pm
Another approach, rather than just hacking the peninsula off, is to peel back the binding and reshape the end:

http://www.lutherie.net/Gibson.FB1.jpg

http://www.lutherie.net/Gibson.FB2.jpg

http://www.lutherie.net/Gibson.FB3.jpg

http://www.lutherie.net/Gibson.FB4.jpg

http://www.lutherie.net/Gibson.FB5.jpg

http://www.lutherie.net/Gibson.FB6.jpg

The above was to a customer's specs; I prefer the configuration below, which is much like an A-4 end:

http://www.lutherie.net/f-5.fingerboard.extensions.jpg

One last thought to pipeous: start the scoop with a round file (as in John Hamlett's method) and make a clean job of it; then follow up by removing wood below that. You have much more control of that first round channel cut when you have wood on both sides.

sunburst
Mar-04-2012, 1:36pm
I'll find a use for these someday...
I use the same basic method as Paul to save the binding, but usually miter it back into the point rather than turning the curve.

I've known more than one player who has first scooped the extension and then just cut it off. When that happens, either the binding is left off of the cut or new binding has to be added, so think about whether you might eventually decide to do a semi or full "floridectomy" in the future and perhaps go ahead and do it now so the binding can be saved.

Brad Davis
Mar-04-2012, 1:46pm
Paul / Sunburst

Thanks for your replies. I really think instead of scooping that I will cut the end off. What kind of glue do you use to glue the binding back? I like that look a lot better.

Folkmusician.com
Mar-04-2012, 2:02pm
You don't happen to have any pics of the finished job do you?
8332083321

I have been scooping The Loar's without filling the fret slots. You have to do an extremely deep scoop and just about go through the binding. It will come scary close with little room for error.

I do it pretty much how Highwall describes, using this:

83322

I like Hamlett's method too.

Fretbear
Mar-04-2012, 3:28pm
In no universe can I see that useless (and stupid-looking) black tongue having a better appearance than the board simply cut off at the 22nd fret or so......

sunburst
Mar-04-2012, 3:49pm
In no universe can I see that useless (and stupid-looking) black tongue having a better appearance than the board simply cut off at the 22nd fret or so......

Yeah, but what has that to do with tradition? 'Funny' how we want to see what we're used to.
(BTW, I agree. Even with frets in it, it's one of those "what's that doing there?" things to me.)

Folkmusician.com
Mar-04-2012, 4:23pm
There is one reason not to cut it off on The Loar's... The finish quality is not so hot under the extension. :)

I actually think that scooped extensions look kind of cool.

Brad Davis
Mar-04-2012, 11:10pm
Well...I did it. I think it turned out really good. Yeah, there is the small spot where the extended finger board was....but I still like the look of the cut off extension versus the scooped. The slots for the frets were really deep....pretty much all the way through the ebony. I would have had to plane the ebony all the way down to the wood and maybe beyond binding in some places.

A few tips.....

Definatly do this with hand tools. Make sure that you put a sheet or a throw cloth where it will protect the top of your mando (pic 3). The ebony is really brittle. Take your time. Go ahead and take all of the frets off that you are going to cut off anyway. Remove the binding by making a cut just below a corner....that way you don't have to come back later and try to reglue and fit the binding in the corner. I found that difficult. Once the binding is removed from the fingerboard and moved to one side (Pic 5), go ahead and cut out all of the ebony that is going to be cut off of the mandolin anyway. That way you have room to work with. Next it's time to cut the extended board off. Make sure that you leave enough wood (below the ebony) so that the binding will have a lip and something to rest on. The binding should be flush with the bottom of the fret board. I cut and fit the ebony to fit the new shape of the finger board. Used 3M Super 77 adhesive spray to glue the binding back. Sprayed it onto an old piece of cardboard and applied the ahesive to the pieces of binding with a Q-Tip.

It looks great....and most importantly, it plays very good now. I can play in sweet spot with no obsticles in the way. Now that it looks and plays great, I'm going to go throw up. I cannot believe that I cut on my mandolin. Night!

Barry Wilson
Mar-05-2012, 2:57am
it looks fine straight across. I'm sold. I'm cutting mine,

Jessbusenitz
Mar-05-2012, 2:05pm
I had a 700 and scooped low enough for my liking and the filled the slots with some aluminum I got from an areasol can ( it was carpet cleaner or something like that) but it fit right in the slot, and I really liked the look of it. Don't think I'd could take a router to my mando! Did mine with chisels to hog it down and then to files and sandpaper.

Ivan Kelsall
Mar-06-2012, 2:50am
OMG Robert - That's not a scoop,it's trench !!. I think i'd rather go for the 'amputation' option. Done well,& still retaining some shape at the end,it looks very neat,
Ivan

jimmy powells
Mar-04-2024, 5:22am
The A4 style one looks really good and is the best shape IMO. I don;t go for long scoops especially when made on new instruments. Pointless. I don;t like the Sam Bush style shape. Just looks wrong.