Disappointing Loar LM-500

[multidon]

I have read so many reports of people here that love the Loar mandolins. But I have never had the opportunity to actually see and play one until now. The place had just one, an LM-500. I have to say I was underwhelmed to say the least. Sounded mediocre, played poorly (high action- blame the set up), fit and finish was only fair to poor. They wanted 600 dollars, I wouldn't have taken it for free.

After i got home I did a little research. This one had a flower pot inlay on the headstock (ironically, this was well done). This tells me that it was the "old" Loar LM-500 that was made at a different factory with pressed wood. The "new" Loar LM-500 has a simpler fleur de lis inlay, is carved, and made in the same factory as the other Loars, if my research is correct. Since this is my only encounter with a Loar, I would hope it is not indicative of the fit and finish of the rest of the line. I will withhold judgement until I have seen some other examples. In the meantime, I would advise everyone to avoid LM-500s that have the flowerpot inlay like the plague if what I played is typical of that older model.

[Brent Hutto]

Fit and finish aside that was an old model, known to be of inferior quality, being sold at a rip-off price. Of course you didn't like it. That's like going to test drive a new Toyota Camry and being shown a 2003 model priced at $35,000. That one'll be sitting there for a long time.

[jmalmsteen]

Before I bought my first mandolin, I had done a lot of research and decided I wanted a Loar. Living in NY, Mandolin Brothers was the only logical place to get one and the only f style mandolin in my price range was a Kentucky. I am happy I bought it because its beautful and blows away the Loar. I finally had a chance to play a Loar at a small shop in NC and immediately knew it didn't feel right or sound right. Now, this was only one Loar but it was terrible.

[allenhopkins]

You get a "lemon" Loar, and ergo, all Loars are poop. You play an exceptionally good Kentucky, and ergo, Kentuckies are "da bomb."

I read dozens of posts here every day, from owners who rave about their Loars and their Kentuckies and whatever other mandolin they've just purchased and "can't put down." And I read posts from people who have played one Weber or Loar or Gibson or Shmergel, were "underwhelmed," and therefore deduce that all mandolins from that maker are overpriced firewood.

C'mon, guys, what you like is at least partially a function of your taste, every instrument is subtly or obviously unique and not just like others of the same make and model, and the best of makers may turn out a "dog" every now and then. Just be glad when you find one that's right for you, and be nearly as glad when you try one out and find it's not your cup of tea.

[P.D. Kirby]

Before I bought my first mandolin, I had done a lot of research and decided I wanted a Loar. Living in NY, Mandolin Brothers was the only logical place to get one and the only f style mandolin in my price range was a Kentucky. I am happy I bought it because its beautful and blows away the Loar. I finally had a chance to play a Loar at a small shop in NC and immediately knew it didn't feel right or sound right. Now, this was only one Loar but it was terrible.

Easy there Jen, You are talking about one of the women I love. :grin: As for the old LM 500s they had a steam/heat formed top not a carved one so poor sound was something that they were plagued with from the beginning. I like the Kentucky's especially the KM 1000, so many Mandolins so little time.

[P.D. Kirby]

They had a Shmergel on e-bay but it was out of my price range, I hear they are Da Bomb... :whistling:

[Willie Poole]

I agree with Alan, thats why I say don`t buy anything without playing it first, I know dealers will give you a return period but it will still cost you some bucks to just try and see if a mandolin is the right one for you, shipping usually runs at least 50 bucks....I did buy a Kentucky KM-900 without playing it first but had a promise that if didn`t like it I would get my shipping paid back to me, YES, I kept it and still have it....

Willie

[catmandu2]

They had a Shmergel on e-bay but it was out of my price range, I hear they are Da Bomb... :whistling:

Those schmergls are all hype and very little substance

[Ben Milne]

I think it should be noted that most people's overly positive opinions of The Loar instruments are suffaced by for the price.

[Brent Hutto]

And that particular pressed/molded/whatever it was old version of the LM-500 was often recommended against on this forum as not a very good deal (even when they used to sell for a more reasonable price than $600). As I seem to be post every day in one thread or another, what matters is the instrument you're buying. Not the logo plastered on the headstock. Nobody's claiming that any instrument with "The Loar" written on it is a bargain, no matter what the price.

[guitarpath]

I think it should be noted that most people's overly positive opinions of The Loar instruments are suffaced by for the price.

Which makes no sense to me. An instrument either works for your music or it doesn't. When you are playing, who thinks about the price of the instrument? Its about the tone, volume, and feel of the instrument.

I have a Loar 600 with CA bridge and professional set-up. It is a very good mandolin. Period. No "for-the-price" disclaimers necessary.

[Ben Milne]

For me the fact that you require hardware upgrades to make the instrument playable impacts on the status of being a very good mandolin.
The fit and finish would also have to be considered with regard to this status.
I think about the price of the mandolin when I ding it. I think about the price when I dont bother to remove my studded belt or move my belt buckle.
I think about the price of the mandolin when I accept the fact I will be due for fret work prematurely.
I will think about the price when I take to the finish with some very fine scotchbrite to dull the finish.
If when I am playing my instrument there potential for coming into contact with beer, whiskey etc, I am comfortable with that risk, because of the price I paid.

I view my LM-700 as a very good musical tool for the price I paid.
I am not prepared to place it in the very good mandolin category.
I hope this makes some sense, though as always, YMMV.



OP's scenario involves a discontinued overpriced inferior instrument.
I paid just $100 more for a new LM-700 which is a very good mandolin for the price, once hardware upgrades and setup are completed.

[multidon]

And I read posts from people who have played one Weber or Loar or Gibson or Shmergel, were "underwhelmed," and therefore deduce that all mandolins from that maker are overpriced firewood.
I hope you were not referring to me, Allen. You will notice in my original post I clearly stated the following:


Since this is my only encounter with a Loar, I would hope it is not indicative of the fit and finish of the rest of the line. I will withhold judgement until I have seen some other examples.

And I meant it. The only purpose for my post was to warn others of this particular model. I understand now that this has already been done in earlier threads. I did not know this. I did not mean to criticize all "the Loars". I have only seen one. I expected much better after all the raves I've read on this forum. I am glad so many people have found "the Loar"s that they enjoy. I hope I will have an opportunity to play a good one someday so I can experience what everyone is talking about.

[Keith Witty]

I think you should play about 5-10 Mandolins of a certain brand before you deduce how good or bad you think they are. I've played a lot of "The Loar's" and just as in all imports, there have been a couple duds, but for the most part, they were really excellent for the price. I've played a few Kentucky's, really enjoying all of them except for one in particular. The most disappointing brand I've played has been Weber. I live right beside a dealer and to this day have only played one I would even remotely consider buying, and it was the best mandolin I've ever played.

Regardless, it's better to hold judgement until you have played a decent amount of them.

[JeffD]

For me the fact that you require hardware upgrades to make the instrument playable impacts on the status of being a very good mandolin.

It was not playable without hardware upgrades? Or was not as good as you wanted?

[Ben Milne]

Jeff the stock stock J-74s lasted less than 36 hours (total, not playing hours) before both A strings were blown. To me that is pretty unplayable.
The seller claimed the instrument received two setups, one by The Loar luthiers, one by themselves.
Further inspection revealed both setups had missed the fact the the saddle was cracked. I am currently using one from a mate's Kentucky, I will be upgrading the bridge soon.

[Stephen Perry]

If the instrument was shipped, the saddle could have cracked in shipping. That's happened a couple of times to me in shipping.

On the other hand, the bridges used on "The Loar" instruments aren't as good as high-quality aftermarket bridges in materials, design, or construction. Their initial installation at the factory can also prove problemmatic.

The range of comments in various places on the web might be considered as describing an instrument line that comes close to the mark, but doesn't quite reach it. I am concerned about the amount of setup and repair we must do to the line's instruments, beyond what I consider reasonable for new instruments. I'm also concerned about the business entities that do not do the repairs and setup. Those instruments hit the market in less than ideal shape and may eventually dilute the brand's reputation.

It's a difficult situation. I know from personal experience that controlling overseas production is a daunting task. I also know that the management at Music Link is working hard to bring up the quality. I wish them success and ask the playing market to be patient. That doesn't mean accepting substandard products at regular prices.

[pefjr]

I have read so many reports of people here that love the Loar mandolins. But I have never had the opportunity to actually see and play one until now. The place had just one, an LM-500. I have to say I was underwhelmed to say the least. Sounded mediocre, played poorly (high action- blame the set up), Stop right there. That's your problem. Take any mandolin and that would be the same problem.

[Elliot Luber]

You get a "lemon" Loar, and ergo, all Loars are poop. You play an exceptionally good Kentucky, and ergo, Kentuckies are "da bomb."

I read dozens of posts here every day, from owners who rave about their Loars and their Kentuckies and whatever other mandolin they've just purchased and "can't put down." And I read posts from people who have played one Weber or Loar or Gibson or Shmergel, were "underwhelmed," and therefore deduce that all mandolins from that maker are overpriced firewood.

C'mon, guys, what you like is at least partially a function of your taste, every instrument is subtly or obviously unique and not just like others of the same make and model, and the best of makers may turn out a "dog" every now and then. Just be glad when you find one that's right for you, and be nearly as glad when you try one out and find it's not your cup of tea.

I think in some cases, as yesterday's Weber discussion, it was a case of a fairly new player not comprehending the difference between the sound of an oval hole mandolin and a f-hole mandolin, and thus being shocked by a mandolin that received a lot of positive attention on the cafe. I agree with you that one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch, but you gotta know something about apples to judge that, and many are in the learning process.

[jmalmsteen]

You get a "lemon" Loar, and ergo, all Loars are poop. You play an exceptionally good Kentucky, and ergo, Kentuckies are "da bomb."

I read dozens of posts here every day, from owners who rave about their Loars and their Kentuckies and whatever other mandolin they've just purchased and "can't put down." And I read posts from people who have played one Weber or Loar or Gibson or Shmergel, were "underwhelmed," and therefore deduce that all mandolins from that maker are overpriced firewood.

C'mon, guys, what you like is at least partially a function of your taste, every instrument is subtly or obviously unique and not just like others of the same make and model, and the best of makers may turn out a "dog" every now and then. Just be glad when you find one that's right for you, and be nearly as glad when you try one out and find it's not your cup of tea.

Good point but how many people are able to try ten different Kentucky mandolins or ten different Loars?

[Stephen Perry]

I suggest taking opinions from those without wide experience or those sell instruments (as I do) quite carefully. Hey, let's take all opinions carefully! Comments on fora don't generally go through 4 review cycles with fact checking and other vetting.

I have been underwhelmed by some aspects of "The Loar" instruments, have communicated my concerns to the company, and have seen real effort towards improving those aspects. I can't help but acknowledge that issues coming out of the factory remain, including the quality of the bridges and finish work. The quality of the in-house setup at the warehouses also varies. However, the materials, design, construction, and stock setup are improving. I strongly suggest not condemning the entire line on either single examples or older models. On the other hand, it will behoove buyers to make sure the instrument they are considering 1) can be returned, 2) will be set reasonably well by the seller, and 3) is a newer model. Keeping one's expectations in line with the fast production nature of this level of instrument and in accord with the numerous quality observations available should also temper expectations.

They're not a bad product. They're just what they are, and they can be made surprisingly good with a competent workup in a good shop.

[jschall84]

I have learned something from working in the instrument business. Some people have a very hard time judging subjective things like tone, playability, fit, and finish after they have seen the brand name or price tag. Seriously, I have seen people swear by Gibsons that played and sounded like crap and scoff at imports that are amazing. The opposite can be true as well. Some people will swear an instrument sounds or plays better because they got a good deal on it. Something in there head clicks more because they knew they got a good deal. The important thing is to find what YOU like. Mandolins are made of wood, and made by hand. No two mandolins are ever going to be exactly the same. This is true from Rogues to Gibsons. Every so often a high end instrument is a dud. Every so often a low end instrument is a gem. I would just caution against swearing off even a particular model without playing every single one out there. Nothing wrong with playing one and being underwhelmed. Thus, the importance of playing before buying or buying from a trusted seller (like Gianna Violins or Folk Musician).

[JeffD]

Good point but how many people are able to try ten different Kentucky mandolins or ten different Loars?


Of course one should try as many as possible before deciding on "the one", and of course this is not always possible. But one should always have a mind open enough to consider that "had I tried many examples would this have happened more than once?"

[Keith Witty]

I think when looking at Kentucky, Eastman, and the Loar mandolins, you should definitely be able to expect a certain playability and sound out of them; but I also think that from my tiny little sample size, that you are almost just as likely to find one that is "The one" as you are a true dud. Meaning that I would say that 90% of all three brands have a "standard" feel to them, and 10% are either duds or spectactular playing, and sounding mandos.

[tprior]

one instrument doesn't set the reference...

[Bob Borzelleri]

I read this post as a comment on a particular mandolin at a particular price. I didn't interpret the post as an indictment of all Loars. Not surprisingly, perhaps, some subsequent posters have morphed the post into something it is not.

I have not been impressed by the build consistency of the 4 or 5 Loars I have had in my hands (guitars and mandolins), but if I happened upon one that was well built at a fair price, I would not dismiss it automatically as a no go. And, if I discovered one that was poorly built at an unfair price, I might well post the same sort of message that started this thread.

[multidon]

Not surprisingly, perhaps, some subsequent posters have morphed the post into something it is not.

Amazing how this always seems to happen to ME. I wish all you folks who think I'm bashing Loars in general would re-read my original post. I stand by what I said about the LM-500 I observed, handled, and played. I am not inexperienced in evaluating instruments. Mandolins, perhaps, but no neophyte with stringed instruments in general. And before someone tells me mandolins aren't guitars, I maintain that material and construction quality along with fit and finish are universals. I saw and played a LM-500. I didn't like it (see OP). I did some research on the model. Found out what I looked at was not made in the same factory as the other Loars, was made out of pressed wood, and the 600 dollar price tag was ridiculous. I think that it is very telling that all the folks who are bashing me because I condemned ALL Loars (I most certainly did no such thing, again read OP) have not disputed any of the facts I pointed out about the LM-500.

[almeriastrings]

FWIW, I think any criticisms invariably touch a few nerves with some people. People "invest" a lot of pride as well as $ in an instrument, and tend to take it personally when problems are highlighted or criticisms (no matter how valid) are made. Just human nature, I suppose.

I have not seen anything like the number of this brand that Stephen Perry has, but what he says precisely matches my more limited experience with them. I am probably the only person (as far as I know) in a 500 mile radius that does specialised repair and setup work on bluegrass instruments, so the few that are around these parts tend to find me. I have seen the exact problems he points out, frequently, of late, as one of the main European stores had a big blowout deal on them and several people I know picked them up. Every single one required work that in my opinion went far beyond what could be reasonably expected.

I will await QC developments with interest.... it can only go in one direction (hopefully!).

I might even get to see a "new" LM-520 VS shortly, as I know someone who is thinking about getting one.

Never been keen on pressed-top instruments as they (to me) don't tend to sound too great and over time, are prone to top failure problems. We have a very dry climate here, and I see quite a lot of low end instruments with problems like that.

[jmalmsteen]

I am of the opinion that if you are spending $700+ for an instrument then a company should offer some consistency and there shouldn't be really good or really bad examples of a model. This is going to hurt the brand integrity.

[Stephen Perry]

Your point is rather well taken, jmalmsteen. I imagine some dealers are beginning to wonder whether the issues with the product will wear off on them. I am thinking that quality will rise to the point that they are as good as the Recording King guitars - also sourced by the Music Link. I hope this happens before the brand suffers too much.

[Brent Hutto]

It is possible to spend far, far more than $700 on an instrument (mandolin, guitar, fiddle, etc.) and not find the sort of "consistency" that one might expect of a Honda Civic or an Apple laptop computer. Heck, pianos that cost $25,000 are inconsistent and some of them require the better part of a hundred hours of dealer prep to achieve a high standard of tone and playability.

My point being, yeah I'd like to be able to order up a $500 mandolin and know that each one is more perfect than the last and that it will sound and play exactly like other examples of the same model. That along with World Peace and gas for a buck fifty a gallon and while we're at it my hair to grow back.

[Bob Borzelleri]

It is possible to spend far, far more than $700 on an instrument (mandolin, guitar, fiddle, etc.) and not find the sort of "consistency" that one might expect of a Honda Civic or an Apple laptop computer. Heck, pianos that cost $25,000 are inconsistent and some of them require the better part of a hundred hours of dealer prep to achieve a high standard of tone and playability.

My point being, yeah I'd like to be able to order up a $500 mandolin and know that each one is more perfect than the last and that it will sound and play exactly like other examples of the same model. That along with World Peace and gas for a buck fifty a gallon and while we're at it my hair to grow back.

I don't know whether your point is just a "that's the way things are", "fact of life" observation or a defense of poor quality control. I own several $500-600 instruments (Taylor Mini GS, Ovation Trekker, JBovier electric) that have impeccable build and finish quality and that quality has been consistent throughout each of these companies production.

The point made in this thread speaks to a less than stellar QC track record for a particular manufacturer. They could do as well as other manufacturers at the same price point, if they choose to, and buyers have a right to expect that effort from them. If Taylor can produce boatloads of Mini GS guitars with the highest level of QA/QC, then we have the right to expect the same from any manufacturer who seeks to get our money for similarly priced instruments.

[tprior]

I have read so many reports of people here that love the Loar mandolins. But I have never had the opportunity to actually see and play one until now. The place had just one, an LM-500. I have to say I was underwhelmed to say the least. Sounded mediocre, played poorly (high action- blame the set up), fit and finish was only fair to poor. They wanted 600 dollars, I wouldn't have taken it for free.



In all fairness this is what you started the thread with . It was determined after a few posts that the Instrument was older, which may also leave it as " suspect". I have 3 F- Mandolins, one is a 500 Loar which is now two years old, it was purchased new from a dealer and was setup by said dealer. It is a fine Instrument , fine quality and a fine player. NO issues.

I think it is equally important to state that your situation may be an "outside the box" issue especially given that it is an older Instrument as discussed way up top on this thread. We have a few dealers close by in NC that carry Loars as well as other brands, I have played probably a dozen new Loars last year, found them all to be very nice ...the new 520, 500's ,600's and 700's.

just my thoughts, sorry you ran across a dud...I played a $3000 Gibson and put it back, I thought it was a dud ! So evidently duds live among us...

t

[Chip Booth]

Those schmergls are all hype and very little substance

Don't dis the Schmergl !

[Bob Borzelleri]

In all fairness this is what you started the thread with . It was determined after a few posts that the Instrument was older, which may also leave it as " suspect". I have 3 F- Mandolins, one is a 500 Loar which is now two years old, it was purchased new from a dealer and was setup by said dealer. It is a fine Instrument , fine quality and a fine player. NO issues.

I think it is equally important to state that your situation may be an "outside the box" issue especially given that it is an older Instrument as discussed way up top on this thread. We have a few dealers close by in NC that carry Loars as well as other brands, I have played probably a dozen new Loars last year, found them all to be very nice ...the new 520, 500's ,600's and 700's.

just my thoughts, sorry you ran across a dud...I played a $3000 Gibson and put it back, I thought it was a dud ! So evidently duds live among us...

t

In complete fairness, it might be pointed out that the notion that this might be an older The Loar model didn't crop up "after a few posts". It was clearly stated in the original post. Perhaps a reread might be in order.

[tprior]

In complete fairness, it might be pointed out that the notion that this It was clearly stated in the original post. Perhaps a reread might be in order.

Ok a gotcha... I guess what I should have said was the discussion with regard to it being an older Instrument got more interesting in the later posts, all being said, it was an older Instrument and perhaps not a fair comparison. I found it odd that a supposed NEW Instrument was in such poor shape which I do not debate but still think of as "suspect"...

but I would have taken it for free..! I do totally agree that for the money, it should please and satisfy...$300 or $3000...

[multidon]

but I would have taken it for free..!

But not me! Even after a thorough set up that would have solved the playability issues, it still would have the ugly fit and finish and pressed wood construction. Nothing can be done about that. Junk like that is useless to me at any price.


I found it odd that a supposed NEW Instrument was in such poor shape which I do not debate but still think of as "suspect"...

As did I. This guy carries all cheapo lines- Savannah, Rover, and this Loar LM-500 was his supposed top of the line. $600 is what a brand new one costs, and he was charging that even though it was old. NOS perhaps? According to what I have since found out about LM-500's, the new ones are greatly improved. I wish I had seen one of those instead. I might have bought it. Carved wood and made in the same factory as everything else in the Loar line. I believe this guy had a lot of nerve. I just wanted to warn people that these are still out there, and do your homework. The headstock inlay is the giveaway. Newer improved=fluer de lis. Older inferior=flowerpot. If pressed wood is actually what you want, fine with me, but I wouldn't pay 600 for one. Not when the new version goes for that.

[Brent Hutto]

The headstock inlay is the giveaway. Newer improved=fluer de lis. Older inferior=flowerpot.

Good catch on that. I'd probably be able to spot the difference from the mandolin itself but it's nice to have a clear marker!

[jambalaya]

the new version has a scooped extension as well. the older one doesn't.

[tprior]

but I wouldn't pay 600 for one. Not when the new version goes for that.

Nor would I !

Free is still pretty cheap, you could always burn it for heat if needed !

t

[multidon]

Free is still pretty cheap, you could always burn it for heat if needed !


Now that you mention it that would have given me great pleasure!:))

[Bob Borzelleri]

Ok a gotcha... I guess what I should have said was the discussion with regard to it being an older Instrument got more interesting in the later posts, all being said, it was an older Instrument and perhaps not a fair comparison. I found it odd that a supposed NEW Instrument was in such poor shape which I do not debate but still think of as "suspect"...

but I would have taken it for free..! I do totally agree that for the money, it should please and satisfy...$300 or $3000...

No, not a gotcha; rather a simple statement of fact. You took the OP to task on a point that was a misread by you. Feel "got" if you must, but feeling that you misstated the OP might be more appropriate.

[Dave Cowles]

This image is from Robert Fear's current LM500 page. It is the updated model, and shows a flowerpot inlay. I'd like to know what the fleur de lis looks like, because my LM500 is a new, carved model with this flowerpot inlay.

http://www.folkmusician.com/images/lm-500-vs-4-f.jpg

[almeriastrings]

This image is from Robert Fear's current LM500 page. It is the updated model, and shows a flowerpot inlay. I'd like to know what the fleur de lis looks like, because my LM500 is a new, carved model with this flowerpot inlay.

http://www.folkmusician.com/images/lm-500-vs-4-f.jpg

It looks exactly like that....

[Keith Witty]

This image is from Robert Fear's current LM500 page. It is the updated model, and shows a flowerpot inlay. I'd like to know what the fleur de lis looks like, because my LM500 is a new, carved model with this flowerpot inlay.

http://www.folkmusician.com/images/lm-500-vs-4-f.jpg

Not the same as the old design. There is a distinct difference.

[Dave Cowles]

It still looks a lot more like a flowerpot than a fleur de lis. I'm just sayin...

[multidon]

Dave does have a new one. It is a "flowerpot" but what grows out of the flowerpot is symmetrical and looks sort of like the big part of a fleur de lis to me. The old model "flowerpot" is more like a copy of the old Gibson flowerpot and what grows out of the flowerpot is thinner and asymmetrical, more like an actual plant. Hope that clears it up. Sorry for the confusion.

[Folkmusician.com]

Here be the old version:

81380

These also had a pickguard:

81381

Of note, the fit and finish was typically better on these than the rest of The Loar's. Not saying they were a better mandolin..... :)

[Barry Wilson]

It amazes me how people can defend or bash something with such vigor. It's like seeing both ends of the measuring stick lately.

[Bob Scrutchfield]

The description of the old version of the LM-500 was;


The Loar Mandolin features a premium solid spruce top, solid highly-flamed maple back and sides, a flamed maple neck, and an ebony fretboard and bridge. With an abalone/ M.O.P. custom flower pot headstock inlay, this model fulfills every artistic demand.

Now the newer version is described as having a hand-carved solid spruce top and hand-carved figured maple back and sides.


I see some of the big on-line selllers using the newest picture of the LM-500 and that old description above in the same advertisment.

I am always amazed when I think about how many ways manufacturers use descibe tops, backs and sides of instuments. ie: spruce top, premium spruce top, premium solid spruce top, carved spruce top, and hand-carved spruce top. All of which, of course, mean something totaly different. I don't know how new buyers can keep up with it. It almost seems deceiving in some ways.

I know there's a thread about the different descriptions somewhere.

[Justus True Waldron]

I think all righthtinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not, but I'm sick and tired of being told that I am! Also, I meet a lot of people and I'm convinced that a lot of wrong-thinking people are right... just sayin'

[Kip Carter]

And if you think that way then you should consider considering if what you're thinking is what you thought you intended to think or someone has imprinted their own bias in your impregnable intellect with some kind super cosmo penetrating mental telepathy. Consider it man... consider it... are you considering it? I THOUGHT SO!!
Kip...

[almeriastrings]

Many years ago I worked in the tonewood industry. You would not believe some of the stuff that went on...."Alpine Spruce", "Swiss Pine", "European Maple".... oh, yes.... if only the buyers really knew the truth! It was very inventive at times, a bit like a realtor or estate agent doing their best to describe a house... "finest, well-aged selected" and "AAAA master grade". It is all marketing and often the truth is stretched to the limits and beyond. All this "hand carved" stuff, for example... that can mean a lot of things. The much hyped "nitro" finish on the Loars is another good example. It is just a light overspray on a heavy poly coat. The "inlays" on the headstock are another example as they are not really inlays at all. They are really thin "transfers" buried under a heavy finish. It goes on all the time in the instrument business.... buyer beware.

[Stephen Perry]

Yup. I have gotten "European Spruce" that I recognized marks on - it was US Engelmann with additional stamps.

Light nitro over poly gives us fits here.

I will merely post an excerpt from the Uniform Commercial Code to show what I think:

§ 2-313. Express Warranties by Affirmation, Promise, Description, Sample.

(1) Express warranties by the seller are created as follows:

(a) Any affirmation of fact or promise made by the seller to the buyer which relates to the goods and becomes part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the affirmation or promise.
(b) Any description of the goods which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the goods shall conform to the description.
(c) Any sample or model which is made part of the basis of the bargain creates an express warranty that the whole of the goods shall conform to the sample or model.
(2) It is not necessary to the creation of an express warranty that the seller use formal words such as "warrant" or "guarantee" or that he have a specific intention to make a warranty, but an affirmation merely of the value of the goods or a statement purporting to be merely the seller's opinion or commendation of the goods does not create a warranty.


When you see a retailer merely parroting the importer's description that retailer may well be attempting to deflect claims under express warranty. Or just be lazy. I prefer not to quote puffery, but I may resort to that myself eventually.

Enjoy!

[Dave Cowles]

Light nitro over poly gives us fits here.



Steve, isn't the nitro finish supposed to be the most significant difference between the LM500 and the LM600? It seems from reading all these current threads on The Loar mandos that they all have poly finish, but the ones advertised as having nitro finish simply have nitrocellulose applied over the poly finish. Is this really the way these finishes are done???

[Stephen Perry]

I haven't stacked the 500 up against the 600 carefully.

In working on finish issues here we have noticed an underlying relatively unfriendly layer overlain by a thin coating that merges perfectly with sprayed on nitro from stewmac. I have not run an analysis.

The mandolins are what they are. Eastman used to spray a coating of nitro over violin spirit varnish to protect the varnish. That makes sense, a nice natural resin traditional finish (well, somewhat recent origin, late 18th C) overlain by a high-tech modern finish (early 1900s or something). Laying nitro - with its known issues - over something essentially untested in the long term (poly etc) would give me pause.

Keep in mind that I believe old-school cooked-oil varnishes are good finishes, well proven. 17th C etc. Working on violins gives me that warped perspective, where 1875 is "modern."

[almeriastrings]

It seems from reading all these current threads on The Loar mandos that they all have poly finish, but the ones advertised as having nitro finish simply have nitrocellulose applied over the poly finish. Is this really the way these finishes are done???

On the two that I have now scraped down, yes. There was no mistaking the distinctive smell, and properties of the poly on those. Now - to be perfectly fair and accurate, Big Joe has stated that "recently" this has changed. The latest one I worked on had a mid-2011 manufacture date. I have therefore not seen a very recent one. If this indeed has changed, it would be nice to know exactly when.

[multidon]

Just checking in with a note about the NEW LM-500's headstock inlay. The is from "the Loar" Web site:

http://www.theloar.com/LM-500-VS.html

Please note that I am not the only one who calls it a "fleur de lis"! They do too!

[wb4h]

Don't play one example of a mandolin and judge the whole lot by that. The local GC has a Gibson The best mandolin I have ever touched. Next door is a SA store they have the same model and it is the worst mandolin I have ever touched. If I only played the one at SA I would be prone to condemn the model as a whole.

[multidon]

Welcome to the forum wb4h! I lived in VA many years and I know the exact stores you're talking about! Isn't it convenient how you can walk from one to the other? I used to debate over whether to park at SA and walk to GC, or visa versa. Regarding the Gibsons, I'm not surprised that the one at SA played badly. I honestly don't think SA does any kind of set up or even checks them. That particular GC has a tech who seems to really know guitars at least.

[Tom Liston]

Just played a newer LM500 a few hours ago for the first time. I have limited experience with Loars overall but I liked the sound and the feel of it. It had already been set up(it seemed to be reasonably set up from what I could tell)and the store had the list of $599 on it. I asked one of the guys there if they could go lower and he said he could do it for $560. I may get it. Would like to try a few others out first though.

Is there a difference in the 500 and the new 520? Just wondering.

Of note: they also had several of the Loar acoustic archtop guitars and I tried 2 of them out. LH300 and a 600. The less expensive 300 sounded a ton better than the 600 which was considerably more $

[Folkmusician.com]

Is there a difference in the 500 and the new 520? Just wondering.

Just looking at the specs, there is not much difference between the 500 and 520 other than a few cosmetic appointments. In person, the 500 will have slightly better tone. It just tends to sound more open. The same goes for jumping from the 500 to the 600. You get nicer woods, Nitro vs poly finish and again, slightly better tone. The neck profiles tend to be slightly different as well. All three are good values.

You may be aware of this, but when looking at LM-500 models be aware the new versions differ from those made in the past. New versions do not have a pickguard.

[Tom Liston]

You may be aware of this, but when looking at LM-500 models be aware the new versions differ from those made in the past. New versions do not have a pickguard.

Thanks for the info.

The one I tried out today had the scoped extension on end of the fret board so I assume this was a newer one

[Folkmusician.com]

yeah, that would be the newer version. :)

[Rob Ray]

I have found lots of variation in the pac-rim stuff....so best to "try before you buy". Less variation in the American made mandolins. I have never played a "bad" Collings or Breedlove(not to say there isn't one out there)....but I have tried one Gibson that was nearly "toneless"....then last Monday I got to play a Gibson GoldRush down at Janet Davis Music....WOW....but you should get alot for 6 grand!

The point...try before you buy OR buy from someone you trust....I've bought two new mandolins, sight unseen, from Kyle at the Mando Shop in Florida....great guy, great set up and he's a straight shooter...so if you order off the net...find someone you can trust!

Rob Ray