construction- no tailpiece ?

[Werner Jaekel]

8046180462

What could be the advantages or disadvantages of not having a tailpiece ? What could be the effects on the soundboard (strain) ? I imagine some sort of compensation is required structurally for the missing tailpiece.

Body length: 340 mm
Body width: 305 mm
Body depth: 85 mm
Scale length: 350-420 mm
Width at nut: 36 mm

http://www.acoustic-guitars.de/index.php/irish-family-english

[John Kelly]

Hi Werner,
having a fixed bridge rather than a tailpiece and floating bridge offers the choice of using ball-end strings and also means that - if the bridge is correctly fitted in the first place allowing for intonation/compensation - then you have no problems when changing strings later as you can have with a floating bridge if you do not get in back exactly where it came from!
The fixed bridge requires a hardwood plate to be affixed to the soundboard under the bridge area to strengthen the soundboard and prevent the strings damaging the board - they would pull up through the soft spruce top fairly quickly when under tension. The torque applied to the soundboard by a fixed bridge is different from the pull exerted by a tailpiece/floating bridge and can cause bellying (at least on guitar-sized bodies) of the soundboard.
As far as sound goes, I am not of any opinion either way but I am sure you will be getting a lot more info coming in on this topic. I have built guitars with pin bridges and all my mando family have so far had tailpieces and floating bridges. Now you have me thinking about a fixed bridge mando! :)

[Werner Jaekel]

Hello John, thank you.

Strengthening the soundboard by means of a hardwood plate would imply to me that it will not resonate as freely. The bellying is exactly what I had thought of. Like the shape of a wave, round end upwards. Corncerning the placement of the bridge I use the rule double distance 12th fret plus 5 mm, bit more or less for more softer or harder sound.

As a designer I also (beside other projects) worked a with technical membranes for pressure gauges. Edge pointing up. followed by a depression, gently coming up forming one or more radiused rims, bit down again for a small plate in the centre. According to responsivity required this wavething is sometimes very thin (1/10 to 1/100 mm) and the wave differently shaped.

The resemblance in shape of a mando soundboard with these most sensitive membranes is striking to me. Not without reason, I suppose. But if one fixes something to the center of this membrane and adds strain and stress to one side, the whole thing will not work (the same way) . I am wondering about the life span of this instrument.

I always wondered how much the strain from the strings is adding up to. Must be considerable. Otherwise the dimension seem interesting. Think I prefer the tailpiece and floating bridge. But I may be wrong. :)

[Bill Snyder]

I would not be the least bit concerned with the life span of the instrument as pictured if it is a well built mandolin. Almost all flat top guitars (in the USA) us a bridge plate and a pin bridge and if they are well built they last a LONG time.
As for the impact on tone I have read that it is significant. That does not mean it is bad or the instrument lacks volume just that there is a noticeable difference in tone between fixed bridge mandolins and floating bridge mandolins.

[rockies]

I seem to look at this as two completely separate things, I look at the conventional arch top and floating bridge as a downward pressure on tje top in a vector relationship. Pressure due to the tailpiece tension and the tuner tension over an angle over the bridge. I see the bridge with no tailpiece and the strings pulling upward over the saddle torquing the bridge forward bringing pressure upward behind the bridge and pulling downward ahead of the bridge. I cannot visualize how the two methods can be compared as it is more like oranges and apples, two completely different structures IMHO
Dave

[Willie Poole]

To my way of thinking since a mandolin is a lot shorter neck than a guitar the intonation would only be correct if a person used the same brand and gauge of strings that he used when this was built, since the bridge cannot be moved to allow use of heavier or lighter strings....May not be much difference but to some ears it would be enough to discourage them....I have even noticed this on big name guitars with fixed bridges....

Willie

[martinedwards]

we're talking two different instruments.

as has been said before, a pinned bridge needs a different bracing system and a hardwood bridgeplate.

most likely, a pinned bridge mando (or mandola or bouzouki) will need an X brace with further fingers similar to a flat top guitar with a pinned bridge. I know, I've made them all.

the sound will be different. not saying better or worse, just different.

like the difference between a regular acoustic guitar and an archtop Jazz box.

because the strings are attached to the top rather than just pressing onto it, a lot more energy goes in there, making up for the weight of the bridge plate.

if you want a pure traditional mando family sound, then the pinned bridge might not be for you. but if you already have a few, and want something new..........

mando (with my only ever attempt at an arm slope, and two strings per pin which I've done a few times

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40-49/46%20dread%20mando/40600989-1.jpg

mandola. more traditional, but still guitar shaped.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/mandola24/40600803.jpg

guitzuki that I made for ME, based on Sobell's design I was playing this yesterday...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40-49/44and45%20zouks/40601018.jpg

[martinedwards]

Oh yeah, as to intonation changes with new string gauges, you cut a new saddle. not a HUGE job, but certainly an aquirable skill!

[Jacob]

Fylde Portuguese mandola has had no problems in 16 years.

80507

[mandroid]

weber for their sweet pea travel mandolin did a tailpiece , just as part of the instrument build.
set 8 brass pins in the end block and something durable for the strings to bend over the edge.

then you can even use an archtop soundbox.