'round midnite

one nite while doin some pickin, i decided to play this song with a swing feel, and i think anyone else who picks this song should give it a try like that. speed it up just a lil and play straight (non accented) right through all the chords then add half a cup of be-bop and lay it on!

i think you might get a kick out of it....

ive never heard anyone play this tune like that, but i got this thing for speeding up monk songs on the mando ('cause i dont exactly have the sustain of a piano) and if anyone has heard a version like this id like to check it out. i have heard more up tempo but not swingin versions yet.

[Ted Eschliman]

Great tune; anytime you can get a mandolin player into the key of Eb Minor without leaving him/her in a fetal position, you're doing all right...
Nothing like six flats.

its not that bad!

[Peter Hackman]

Great tune; anytime you can get a mandolin player into the key of Eb Minor without leaving him/her in a fetal position, you're doing all right...
Nothing like six flats.
Just make sure your nut is cut right, because there's
a lot of fretting near it.

you guys make it sound like pulling teeth.....
im afraid someone out there might get discouraged!
the melody to the song isnt right up on the nut either it stays mostly behind the third fret....
if your mando doesnt let you play in a closed first position easily, move up to second or third position to take a solo.
dont let your mando stop you! i learned all the keys on a cheap cheesy peice of epiphoney and upgraded eventualy, and eventualy again and now im happy i didnt wait till i had a mando that plays easy.

the hardest part about learning a song like this one is remembering the changes, my eyes do not allow me to read a chart while jammin so i gotta memorize for the most part.

when i said behind the third fret i meant like third and up.... very little on the 1st fret

[Peter Hackman]

when i said behind the third fret i meant like third and up.... very little on the 1st fret
yes, that works, too. My Collings is *very* easy to play
in closed first position. Depends on where you want the
character notes of the piece.

[250sc]

Lemonhilljohn,

Thanks for trying to remove the fear factor of playing in keys not commonly used and especally encourging playing songs that are not commonly played in the standard mando songlist.

I have found that lots of players psyche themselves out of playing songs that are not necessarally harder to play than common mando standards. Just because they sound more complex when played by masters the basic chords and head of the tunes are well within reach of the average player who is interested in figuring out something different.

I play with two other players (both play guitar and one of them also plays mando) who get so psyched out with these types of songs that they don't even try them when in reality all they would have to do is spend a week learning a couple of different three note chord forms and they'd be comping swing material like the big guys. I've even charted some stuff out for them but no dice. (Maybe they just don't like the material and are too polite to tell me.)

I've been playing with Django stuff lately and even though I'll never play like him or other monsters I can learn the basics and understand the changes. I'm mostly impressed with how a seemingly simple melody can lay over the chord changes in a way that makes it sound so cool.

Do some of you find simular situations?

[duuuude]

Yeah 250, I feel your pain, the guitar player I jam most often with has the same phobia about some of the chords in the Django pieces, I've also brought him charts of hand positions, hey, you can only lead 'em to the water. Luckily I ran into a gypsy jazz player from a music festival over the weekend, and this guy is good, so there may be hope for swing in the Sierras yet!

Been playin' all the gypsy jazz I can wrap my head around lately, just love them circle of fifths walkdowns where you can start way up the neck & carry it all the way back to first position. Some tunes just seem to be made for the mandolin.

[Peter Hackman]

the hardest part about learning a song like this one is remembering the changes, my eyes do not allow me to read a chart while jammin so i gotta memorize for the most part.
Of course, you will have to reduce the changes to their
bare essentials, then add finer detail when you're blowing.
The changes of this very song are open to
all kinds of interpretations and variations;
even the descending
bass line in the first few bars can be done many ways.



I once collaborated with a couple of very fine jazz musicians
on songs that I'd written, with some very hairy changes,
mainly II-V-I progressions put together in a very
onorthodox manner like some of Monk's tunes.

I noticed how they went about learning the songs.
They had me play the changes over and over (on guitar),
very straight, and on top of that they played their
very elementary interpretations so as to get the changes into their ears. The bass player, Anders Jormin,
for instance, started
almost every phrase of his solos on the root of the chord,
while learning.

[mandroid]

E flat minor?
why? is E minor for slackers?
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Peter Hackman]

Actually I think of the song as being in E flat, which is
where it lands (it does start on an e flat minor chord, though, and passes G flat on the way).

Answer to the question: flat keys are usually the best for
this kind of song. Open strings tend to get in the way.

[jmcgann]

Remember it's a ballad, so it's not like jumping the Coltrane Hurdles at half note= 160... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

One idea is to "Django-fy" the progression some. Lots of Gypsy Jazz players eliminate the II of the II V progression, so you might try:

Ebm Ebm6/Abm6 Bb7/Ebm6 Ab7/E7 Eb7/Abm Db7/Ebm Ab7/ B7/ Bb7
Ebm Ebm6/Abm6 Bb7/Ebm Ab7/E7 Eb7/Abm Db7/Ebm Ab7/B7 Bb7/Eb
B7/Bb7/B7/Bb7/C#7F#/B7 Bb7/Eb7 Db7/B7 Bb7
Ebm Ebm6/Abm6 Bb7/Ebm6 Ab7/E7 Eb7/Abm Db7/Ebm Ab7/B7 Bb7/Eb

well a LITTLE easier, maybe. If you look at it number-fuction wise:

Im Im6/ IVm V etc.

EZ ways to "sound jazz"- try the Eb harmonic minor scale (1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7) (Eb F Gb Ab Bb B D) over the Bb7 chord to get the "altered notes" (those notes from the Bb note give you 1 b9 3 4 5 b6 b7 on the Bb7 chord) ...Eb melodic minor is good on the Ebm and m6th chords (Eb F Gb Ab Bb C D). Try Lydian b7 on the bridge (B7: B C# D# E# F# G A).

Of course if you bump it down or up a half step it's in a much more common key to us mandoheads...but change is good, Ebm isn't all that bad really. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

The 4th bar is usually Bm7 E7 Bbm7 Eb7. when there are lots of changes per bar, you can get stymied into thinking you have to "make" them all, which isn't true...as long as you are still in the key from which the chords are derived... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif Getting those choices together is a bit of work in itself, but once you hear the relationships, you are all set...

PS The classic 1956 Miles version starts as a ballad, then goes into a double time SWINGIN' feel on Coltrane's solo.

[SternART]

Boy John.......lotsa brains in that last post, I'll be trying to figure that out for awhile.
Nice assignment....great classic tune!!

[jmcgann]

I know how easy it is to get overwhemled by data, so just go one little piece at a time. All the cool stuff happens at the subatomic level, right? :cool: