The Lafferty - Mandolin Store house brand

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm sure I wasn't the only one that got the e-mail from Dennis regarding the new Mandolin Store mandolins, The Lafferty (http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodList.asp?brand=23). Obviously I have NFI. I do however wonder who makes them. I have an idea as to who it is but I'll wait until Dennis decides (if ever) to let that cat out of the bag. American made mandolins with pretty decent prices.

[Jim Murton]

I am curious about these myself.That A model looks real nice.The prices seem ultra low for USA made mandolins.hope Dennis puts some sound samples,videos up so we can hear these fine instruments.

[barry k]

I was wondering myself who is making them ?

[pdb]

sure looks like a Weber built mando. Especially when looking at the neck to back connection, looks like classic Weber. This is my unconfirmed guess. I am sure Dennis would let anyone know who calls him. I sure like the looks of that F model. Very cleanly done. Looks like a good mando for the price. I am anxious to hear sound clips of it.

[pjlama]

I hope he does real well with them, Dennis is a good man.

[Gerry Cassidy]

I'm pretty sure it's not STE. I had a chance to play the prototype and I would say it was above average fit & finish as compared to others at the same price point/range. I'm just waitin' on an A4 to come along... :mandosmiley:

[MikeEdgerton]

I don't know if you'll see a true short necked A4 but there were oval hole A model's there. I asked Dennis who made them and he wouldn't tell me. I didn't think he would and he wouldn't. They look decent and he usually does post sound clips. I think he's trying to get these onboard for those last minute shoppers. They look good in the pictures.

[G. Fisher]

I think the mandolins look similiar to Flatiron mandos. Maybe built by Weber with the old Flatiron tooling?

[Gerry Cassidy]

I believe the only current oval holes are the Zouk and OM. They're still working on the A Oval. I'm hoping it's sooner than later. I really liked the F5 I played. Especially at that price point.

[sgarrity]

That sure is a crowded segment of the market. I doubt Weber is making them; they'd be in direct competition with themselves. I'd lean more towards Ratliff or Schneider (Summit), pure speculation though. But there are also quite a few smaller, regional builders that we don't talk about much that make some nice stuff. The octave mando sounded nice but the fingerboard over the soundhole is a bit weird looking IMHO. I wonder if the same person/shop is making both the carved tops and flattops?

[MikeEdgerton]

I believe the only current oval holes are the Zouk and OM. They're still working on the A Oval. I'm hoping it's sooner than later. I really liked the F5 I played. Especially at that price point.

You're right, I went right to the A style F hole models and didn't realize what the two on the top were.

[Gerry Cassidy]

That sure is a crowded segment of the market. I doubt Weber is making them; they'd be in direct competition with themselves. I'd lean more towards Ratliff or Schneider (Summit), pure speculation though. But there are also quite a few smaller, regional builders that we don't talk about much that make some nice stuff. The octave mando sounded nice but the fingerboard over the soundhole is a bit weird looking IMHO. I wonder if the same person/shop is making both the carved tops and flattops?

I agree about the crowded market in this price range. I admit I had a real "Meh, another one..." attitude when I first saw the prototype hanging on the wall. My impression quickly changed as soon as I picked it up. It had a very solid feel to it with a very nice satin finish. It played as nicely as the $4-5K instruments that were hanging next to it.

They didn't have the Zouk in house, but I did get to play the OM. I would put it right in line with Peterson, Flatiron, and other $1-1.5K'rs that are out there. Definitely a step up from a Weber Sage, or the like.

[G. Fisher]

I doubt Weber is making them; they'd be in direct competition with themselves.

Wouldn't whoever builds them be making money weather it has their name or The Lafferty name on it? Once it arrives at the store the models are competing but the builder already has their money for the mandolins.

[Caleb]

Seems a good move to me to keep the builder a secret. After all, aside from curiosity, what difference does it really make? If the instruments are good, that fact alone should suffice.

I am a believer that things (be they tunes, stories, or bits of widsom) can and should stand on their own, and can and should be worthy of their own merits, apart from their origin. I've seen people pick up a guitar, play it, enjoy it, and then realize it was made in China and put it away, dismissing it on those grounds and letting that fact alone spoil any potential enjoyment they may have gained from the instrument (by the way, you don't hear of such things when it comes to flatscreen TVs and other gadgets). If the builder of The Laffertys was discovered, that alone would color at least a few folks' opinion, since some don't like Weber, et al, for whatever reason.

[Scotti Adams]

Im betting the builder is a local guy...by local I mean local to Dennis. On a cool note. That pic of the house that Dennis has posted in relation to the origin of the Lafferty name is about 20 mins. from me. Talked to Dennis about it yesterday. Cool house and cool story. Small world.

[allenhopkins]

Would I be alone in saying I'm not crazy about the name? "The Lafferty" doesn't, you know, evoke -- unlike, say, the Shmergel Devastator, my fave faux mando moniker.

Not that the Laffertys in the pic don't look like nice people...

[Ivyguitar]

I really like this idea from a marketing standpoint. Two quick observations: keeping the builder a secret could allow the artisan to concentrate on making a great product for just one customer (Dennis). Self promotion, marketing, branding, custom orders, etc. can take a backseat and the artisan can focus on his craft. Second, who's to say it's just one builder? Dennis has the freedom to influence production quantity and quality by sourcing different builders for either the finished product or individual components. If his preferred builder quits, croaks, etc., the brand could still continue on.

Not the name I would have picked either, but maybe the next guy with this idea will pay me big bucks for some marketing consulting.
Keep it a secret, put the secret in the mandolin store vault and swallow the key. We will all eventually have to buy one so we can post on the cafe that, I owned one and am convinced that xxx was the builder.

[mandolirius]

Well if they're not made by someone named Lafferty, the name makes no sense to me.

[Markus]

Well if they're not made by someone named Lafferty, the name makes no sense to me.

I agree. Perhaps its me, but 'The Dennis' sounds as good as 'the Lafferty'.

[JEStanek]

It's a family name for a house brand. We've seen names from old German to names of towns and states on headstocks. My long ago advice still applies, buy the best sounding and playing mandolin you can afford no matter the name on the headstock!

Frankly, I'm glad they aren't called The Dennis (1. that's a bit presumptuous if he didn't build them and 2. with my playing, people would say here comes The Dennis, that menace!)

Jamie

Jamie

[Markus]

Point taken, Jamie. My wife's cracks about it would be too much. Then again, if it was a good enough mandolin I wouldn't be able to hear her :grin:

The name goes with tradition, and avoids the pitfall of `The Loar'.

[George R. Lane]

The name means nothing to us but, everything to Dennis. My only concern would be how they sound.

[dcoventry]

Well if they're not made by someone named Lafferty, the name makes no sense to me.

How about The Loar? Sound any better?

[JGWoods]

I wish Lafferty Mandolins and The Mandolin Store success in their venture selling American made instruments.
I do get a kick out of the "Retail price $1999, our price $1499" deal...hey you are the only seller- the price is the price. There is no one out there selling them for "retail", so why not just say "Lafferty Mandolin- $1499".

Maybe they should say "Compares to mandolins selling for $1999"

Rant over. Best wishes.

[allenhopkins]

How about The Loar? Sound any better?

Yeah, but we all understand the Lloyd Loar reference (undeserved as it may be -- what Lloyd L has to do with a Chinese instrument factory isn't all that clear). "Loar" has a long association with acoustic stringed instruments, especially mandolins and carved-top guitars, so putting his posthumous name on the headstock is presumably a selling point.

All I can deduce from the Mandolin Store website is that "Lafferty" refers to a large musical family from Ohio, and that somehow that name has been associated with instruments -- how isn't clear -- "since 1875." This long association has been opaque to me up until I read this thread, so I can't rank "Lafferty" with "Loar," "Martin," "Gibson," "Taylor," "Monteleone," "Gilchrist," "Oscar Schmidt," or others found in instrument catalogs etc.

However, I would rank "Lafferty" ahead of "Morgan Monroe" and "Michael Kelly," both of whom I believe to be non-existent persons -- virtual luthiers?

[mandolirius]

How about The Loar? Sound any better?

Nope, I've always hated that name.

[multidon]

However, I would rank "Lafferty" ahead of "Morgan Monroe" and "Michael Kelly," both of whom I believe to be non-existent persons -- virtual luthiers?

It is true that there is no "Michael Kelly". It's just a fictional brand name like Betty Crocker or Uncle Ben. Morgan Monroe, however, is the name of a state forest in southern Indiana. That is 2 last names however, hyphenated, as in "Morgan-Monroe". No idea if there is a connection or not. Maybe the company people were looking for a trademark, heard the name of the state forest, and liked the way it sounded? Who knows? The "Monroe" part certainly evokes Big Mon.

[adizz]

I know this is off topic but to answer the michael kelly question is the original owner of the company has 2 children Michael and Kelly.

[Brett Byers]

Just to put any speculation to rest, Weber is not involved in any aspect of Dennis' new line.

[thejamdolinplayer]

Just wanted to let everyone know that they now have sound clips loaded on the website if you haven't listened to them yet. These mando's look and sound great and a name is just a name, listen to them, play them(if your near the shop) and if it meets your standards of what a "good" mando sounds/feels like then purchase it.

[Mandoviol]

They look good. Kind of excited. I've been thinking of an upgrade for a long time.

[Charlieshafer]

I love the house-branding idea. If it allows Dennis to make a slightly higher margin and not have to compete with other dealers selling the same instruments, then that's great. I really don't even care where they're made.

On the flip side, the whole thing reminds me of a marketing guy I used to work with, who during some slack time years ago decided to launch a fake company called "Find-A-Founder." He meant it as a joke, just to bring a little interest to the agency. Anyway, he went to a local junk dealer, found a couple of old portraits of really old dapper folks, brought them back to the office, then made up a history based on these two unknown guys. Fitted the frames with brass plaques identifying them as "Joseph Branch" and "Jeremiah Branch" and then wove this faux history into a local friend's retail business, making it appear that the 10 year old history of this grocery store actually went back 150 years. Then, just for giggles and kicks, he made a brochure advertising the "Find A Founder" business' services, complete with this "Branch Bros. Provisions" example off to the Wall Street Journal and waited for them to hopefully get the joke. They didn't, and instead wrote a scathing editorial on modern business morals that people would stoop so low as to invent a fictitious history to make their company sound like something it's not.

[Gerry Cassidy]

I love the house-branding idea. If it allows Dennis to make a slightly higher margin and not have to compete with other dealers selling the same instruments, then that's great. I really don't even care where they're made.

On the flip side, the whole thing reminds me of a marketing guy I used to work with, who during some slack time years ago decided to launch a fake company called "Find-A-Founder." He meant it as a joke, just to bring a little interest to the agency. Anyway, he went to a local junk dealer, found a couple of old portraits of really old dapper folks, brought them back to the office, then made up a history based on these two unknown guys. Fitted the frames with brass plaques identifying them as "Joseph Branch" and "Jeremiah Branch" and then wove this faux history into a local friend's retail business, making it appear that the 10 year old history of this grocery store actually went back 150 years. Then, just for giggles and kicks, he made a brochure advertising the "Find A Founder" business' services, complete with this "Branch Bros. Provisions" example off to the Wall Street Journal and waited for them to hopefully get the joke. They didn't, and instead wrote a scathing editorial on modern business morals that people would stoop so low as to invent a fictitious history to make their company sound like something it's not.

You say this whole thing reminds you of an acquaintance of yours, who also happens to be a con man. He sure did do a lot of work "...just for giggles and kicks..." Visits to junk art stores, having brass plaques made, taking the time to write fictional stories, having brochures made, submitting it all to the WSJ... Sounds more like a scam to me than just a good ol' boy poke in the ribs. I am glad the WSJ called his supposed little joke for what it really was.

Are you implying that is what Dennis is doing? If that is not your point, then please enlighten me... :confused:

[Bernie Daniel]

I love the house-branding idea. If it allows Dennis to make a slightly higher margin and not have to compete with other dealers selling the same instruments, then that's great. I really don't even care where they're made.

On the flip side, the whole thing reminds me of a marketing guy I used to work with, who during some slack time years ago decided to launch a fake company called "Find-A-Founder." He meant it as a joke, just to bring a little interest to the agency. Anyway, he went to a local junk dealer, found a couple of old portraits of really old dapper folks, brought them back to the office, then made up a history based on these two unknown guys. Fitted the frames with brass plaques identifying them as "Joseph Branch" and "Jeremiah Branch" and then wove this faux history into a local friend's retail business, making it appear that the 10 year old history of this grocery store actually went back 150 years. Then, just for giggles and kicks, he made a brochure advertising the "Find A Founder" business' services, complete with this "Branch Bros. Provisions" example off to the Wall Street Journal and waited for them to hopefully get the joke. They didn't, and instead wrote a scathing editorial on modern business morals that people would stoop so low as to invent a fictitious history to make their company sound like something it's not.

I do not see the connection between the Lafferty mandolins story and the story about Find a Founder? What is the fictitious part?

[Charlieshafer]

OK, in response to Gerry, without having been there, you may not see what his original intent was. Clearly anyone who sends a press release into a respected journal with a clearly and openly disingenuous business model can't be asking to be taken seriously. The amount of money this guy made marketing products you use every day eliminates money as a motive. Some guys just take their pranks to a different level.

As far as Bernie's question goes, a look at the mandolin store's website shows a picture from long ago of the Lafferty Family of Ohio, yet there's no connection between the actual makers of the mandolins and the photo, that Dennis is willing to share, at least. Personally, I have no problem with this, it's just a mood-setting photo and Dennis named his brand after the family. Big deal.

But, if Gerry is bothered by the guy who made up "Find A Founder" then he should be bothered by a photo on Dennis' site that doesn't necessarily relate to anything.

Again, I find the whole thing nothing more than marketing imagery, and no one is affected one way or the other.

[Bernie Daniel]

Lafferty is a very common family name in central Ohio extending back to before statehood. The history of Marion County, Ohio (north central) makes reference to a Lafferty family that in addition to distinguishing themselves in the Civil war were also known for their musical efforts -- maybe this is the connection?

[Brent Hutto]

You gotta call 'em something. Could just as easily be "Smith", "Jones", "Lafferty" or for that matter "Eastman" or "Kentucky" if those weren't already taken. Some times a name is just a name.

There are literally dozens of piano brands on the market with various old family names having nothing to do with the actual pianos being built. Same for violins. It's been a common marketing practice for decades. Not a trick, not a con, not an attempt to defraud anyone. Just trying to come up with a cool and memorable name for the product.

[Charlieshafer]

You gotta call 'em something. Could just as easily be "Smith", "Jones", "Lafferty" or for that matter "Eastman" or "Kentucky" if those weren't already taken. Some times a name is just a name.

There are literally dozens of piano brands on the market with various old family names having nothing to do with the actual pianos being built. Same for violins. It's been a common marketing practice for decades. Not a trick, not a con, not an attempt to defraud anyone. Just trying to come up with a cool and memorable name for the product.

That's all I'm thinking; my comment was more towards the cool old photograph with the vague implication that it was the Laffertys in the photo building the mandolins. There's no reference to this in the copy, so it clearly isn't the case, but it is a little "squishy."

[Rick Lindstrom]

What's in a name anyway?

Here's a picture of the peghead on my favorite mandolin.

:grin:

Rick

[Gerry Cassidy]

OK, in response to Gerry, without having been there, you may not see what his original intent was. Clearly anyone who sends a press release into a respected journal with a clearly and openly disingenuous business model can't be asking to be taken seriously. The amount of money this guy made marketing products you use every day eliminates money as a motive. Some guys just take their pranks to a different level.

I'm sorry, but we see what this guy did from very different viewpoints. I didn't need to be there... I've been there. To me, it's similar to what guys like Madoff, or Corzine did. Real pranksters. Same thing, different levels. To me, it's not funny, humorous, or witty in any way. I just don't understand those that may see it that way. Sounds to me like the WSJ response fell on deaf ears. That's okay, I guess. It's become the American Way for some people in this Country.


As far as Bernie's question goes, a look at the mandolin store's website shows a picture from long ago of the Lafferty Family of Ohio, yet there's no connection between the actual makers of the mandolins and the photo, that Dennis is willing to share, at least. Personally, I have no problem with this, it's just a mood-setting photo and Dennis named his brand after the family. Big deal.

But, if Gerry is bothered by the guy who made up "Find A Founder" then he should be bothered by a photo on Dennis' site that doesn't necessarily relate to anything.

Excerpt from an email Dennis sent out to his email list about a month ago:

Hello Fellow Pickers,


I'm very excited to announce that we now have our own line of mandolins "The Lafferty". These new mandolins are made here in the USA to our specifications. This project has been rolling around in my head for several years and the last several months, I finally made the time to bring this project to life.


I know the big question from many folks will be, where did the name come from? My great grandmother was a Lafferty and that's where my musical heritage came from and I thought it sounded like a good name for an instrument line. There's a picture hanging in the shop, taken around 1875, of the Lafferty family with a guitar and fiddle. The gentleman with the guitar is Henry Lafferty my great, great grandfather. That picture is on the top of the Lafferty mandolin page if you're curious. We currently have a flat top bouzouki, flat top octave, a basic A style with F holes and a basic F style with F holes. We hope to add a mandola and a deluxe F style early in 2012. See details below and on our website.


Our goal is to provide legendary customer service so that our customers not only become raging fans, but our friends. We promise to provide product selection, in-depth knowledge, and expert advice, with an attitude of helpfulness. For over 8 years we have been serving the acoustic instrument community. We thank you for you patronage and look forward to serving you in the future


Sincerely,
Dennis Vance

There, I've done your homework for you. I don't believe this is top secret info meant for email list folks eyes only. A simple inquiry would probably result in this same info being provided to you by TMS. After reading this do you still feel your comment on what I need to be bothered about still stands?

Getting back to my original question: Are you implying TMS is pulling a fast one like in your friend's example? If the name of the new mando line inspired you to the point of using a public forum in drawing a comparison to a scam, yet you didn't take the time to check your facts, then I must also ask; Do you make a habit of calling out the integrity of people with well-deserved, stellar reputations without the knowledge to found it upon?

My point in this is: I know for a fact, Dennis, Brian, and The Mandolin Store are a huge positive factor in our world of mandolins. They have made my foray into the mandolin a much more enjoyable experience than it could have been. I have read many postings here from folks who have had similar experiences to mine. Are they perfect? I doubt it, but who is? Don't call folks like this out unless you darn well know what you're talking about.

[Bill Snyder]

Doesn't a scammer have to have a victim? If there was no intended victim there was no scam.

[Charlieshafer]

Doesn't a scammer have to have a victim? If there was no intended victim there was no scam.

That's it exactly. The "business" was never set up to be real, or any services offered. No customers ever contacted him, he didn't solicit any. The fact that the Journal went on a rampage without even doing any fact-checking was the real curiosity. Had they called his number and spoken with him, they would have been let in on the satire. And yes, it was satire, as around that time a number of businesses were taking great pains to make themselves look venerable and experienced, not the least of which were some highly-touted private equity firms.

Had you really ready my intent on the post and follow up posts, you would see that I regarded it as nothing more than an unusual marketing program. To insinuate I am calling the Mandolin Store owners "scammers" is flat out wrong, and shows a compete misreading of my comments.

[northfolk]

Are we still talking about Lafferty mandolins or what? So who makes them? :mandosmiley:~o)

[citeog]

I agree. Perhaps its me, but 'The Dennis' sounds as good as 'the Lafferty'.

If this is the case, we should be grateful that Mrs. Vance named her son Dennis, and not Donald:o)

By all accounts, Dennis is a decent skin and I wish him all the best with this endeavour.

[Mike Romkey]

Smart marketing.

1. Launch an affordable store brand. Works for Target, right?

2. Decline to say who one's USA maker is, thus creating, a little inexplicably, mystery and buzz.

No. 1 is a good idea. Best of luck. As for no. 2, I would say I don't care but I did read to the end trying to find out who it is. So ya got me.

[allenhopkins]

Straying even farther afield, but I find Charlie's friend's "joke" or "scam" or whatever, less invidious than, say, Washburn Guitars, whose links talk about "Guitars manufactured in Chicago since 1883. Washburn Guitars has built guitars in Chicago for working musicians for over one hundred years..." -- when Washburns are built in Asia, and have no connection with the old Lyon & Healy produced Washburn line, other than having acquired the nameplate.

To me, that's deceptive -- and not just a victimless prank, but an attempt to delude prospective purchasers into thinking that modern Washburns -- however good or bad they may be -- are the direct descendants of early-20th-century American-made instruments. Which they're not.

Getting back to the issue at hand, glad to have the "Lafferty" relationship cleared up. A real connection, albeit somewhat tenuous, does exist.

[PJ Doland]

I have a hard time imagining how they could be making them in the US and selling them at those prices.

I'd love it if, at very least, he would confirm that he's not using prison labor.

[P.D. Kirby]

Sooner or later somebody will spill the beans, it makes no sense not to. We all know the only way to keep a secret between two people is if one of them is dead, I can wait. Not until somebody dies of course, cause I might die first...

Maybe we should take up a collection and offer a bribe to Dennis' employees :grin:

[The Mandolin Store]

I assure you these mandolins are made in USA. A little money and a volume commitment can work miracles when it comes to getting a project done in an affordable manner. These are very good quality mandolins at a a very affordable price and that's what is important, not who built them for us. We have a confidentialty agreement with the builders - plural.

I plan to change a few things (tailpiece, tuners, and go to a flat fingerboard) on the standard A style to get the price down to $1499. The F style at $2499 will stay as it is - I think it's the best value out there at that price. This project is a work in progress and we'll make changes as needed in order to serve the mandolin community to the best of our ability.

Prison labor, I never thought of that but I really like where your heads at. I would like to develop the brand further and perhaps have an import version at some point but that's a bigger project..... Rome was'nt built in a day.

As for the name: I have told the story about my family all ready. No matter what I called it some people would not like it. I think The Lafferty has a nice ring to it and at the end of the day, I think most customers like it to based on the response I have received. It certainly sounds better than The Dennis or The Vance......at least to me - LOL.

The mandolin being given away on the Mandolin cafe is a monster sounding mando. I have a few of these out in the hands of very satisfied customers who I hope will do a review on this site as soon as they have an oppotunity.

[Jeffff]

Webers are made in the USA for approx. the same price. Until recently or at least until near future Breedloves were less expensive.

I they agreed to purchase a certain quantity anything is possible.

[dcoventry]

Hey Dennis!

Thank you for all you have done, are doing and will do in the future for the mando community. It's just great. Seriously.

And as a wise man once said, "Haters are gonna hate". Wise, wise words to remember.

You go boyeeeee!! And I want that raffle mando!!

[JeffD]

I think the name Lafferty is pretty cool, musical connection or not. The Lafferty Mandolin. I like it. It works. Its nice there is both a musical connection and a family connection, but the name is cool just on its own.

[mandolirius]

Aside from the fact that the name contains the word "laff" (marketing alert), there is this weird idea of calling it "The Lafferty". It's a quaint pretension from a bygone era. "The Loar" remains the most ridiculous name ever. "The Gibson" was intended to announce a standard bearer, an instrument of reference, the top of its field. Using "The" for a budget, entry-level instrument is absurd. The only thing I didn't like about my '89 Flatiron was the "The". Just my opinion, no offense intended. Never heard a bad word about Dennis or his staff, so I think of them as good guys and wish them well. I just don't like the name.

[dcoventry]

Aside from the fact that the name contains the word "laff" (marketing alert), there is this weird idea of calling it "The Lafferty". It's a quaint pretension from a bygone era. "The Loar" remains the most ridiculous name ever. "The Gibson" was intended to announce a standard bearer, an instrument of reference, the top of its field. Using "The" for a budget, entry-level instrument is absurd. The only thing I didn't like about my '89 Flatiron was the "The". Just my opinion, no offense intended. Never heard a bad word about Dennis or his staff, so I think of them as good guys and wish them well. I just don't like the name.

The Loar is the silliest name ever? Not hardly. I say it's notable jazz pianist Dick Hymen. That's rough. In comparison, I think he wins. Or maybe using the name Nova for a car sold in Mexico.

Well Dennis. I guess that seals it. You'll have to change the name to something less delirious. Speaking of silly names...........:))

[Bob Scrutchfield]

From everything I have seen and heard so far 'The Lafferty' mandolins are, and will continue to be, very fine instuments.

Personally, I really like the connection Dennis has made with his musical ancestors.
I do think The Lafferty brand name will be standing on it's own for quality, excellence, value, and service. Everyone already realizes that Dennis, Brian, and The Mandolin Store are already known for all those qualities.

IMO, If a product is really great it really doesn't matter what it's name is. (within reason of course). I'm sure there would have been no Marketing Execs that would have came up with Dudenbostel as their first choice for an acoustic instrument brand name. But I head somewhere that Lynn Dudenbostel is quite successful at building and selling his Guitars and Mandolins. ;) :grin:

(NFI) :)

[PJ Doland]

Not that there's anything wrong with prison labor. These aren't my cup of tea, but they look reasonably well-made:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7bOnVNcruY

[P.D. Kirby]

Man you should post a warning with a video like that, it's too early for badly played metal guitar. Looks like a BC Rich Warloc knock off and Kerry King he ain't ... :grin:

[mandolirius]

The Loar is the silliest name ever? Not hardly. I say it's notable jazz pianist Dick Hymen. That's rough. In comparison, I think he wins. Or maybe using the name Nova for a car sold in Mexico.

Well I have to admit I wasn't thinking beyond the realm of mandolins.

Well Dennis. I guess that seals it. You'll have to change the name to something less delirious. Speaking of silly names...........:))

Hey! I'm "delirious" about "mandolins". That strikes me as a rather sensible name around here. Besides when your're stuck with that most ubiquitous of english male names (Mike) it's good to have nickname.

[northfolk]

Now that there are a few of the new Lafferty mandolins out on the street; I think it is time for someone to write a review or tell us a little more about them? OK, I'll do it! Yes, I recently purchased a Lafferty basic "A" model mandolin from The Mandolin Store. I've had it for about a week now, so I've run it through my routine fairly well. My first impression was a modest looking mandolin with extremely clean workmanship and excellent fit and finish; and of course, the setup was perfect. Mine has a flat ebony fretboard with 22 modern frets, the bone nut is 1 1/8" wide, Grover tuners with pearl buttons, cast Allen tailpiece, solid well-fitted ebony bridge, MOP script and modified flowerpot inlay on the headstock, nicely figured maple on the neck, back and sides, Sitka spruce top; all the stuff you need to make a really fine mandolin. Now for the best part; the sound and playability. Maybe a bit tight right out of the box, my Lafferty has excellent balance across the board; as good as anything I've played; and loud to boot. The more I play it, the better it sounds. The neck profile is perfect for me; soft "V" and slightly thicker; a real pleasure to play? I also like the fact that there is no fretboard extension to get in my way. Comes with a very nice Superior vintage-look shaped case. Of course Dennis and the staff at The Mandolin Store are always a pleasure to do business with; a great mandolin and a great support staff; what could be better? So, call The Mandolin Store and get your hands on a Lafferty; I know you won't regret it. Thanks.

[Caleb]

The one in the pic for the giveaway is just beautiful. I hope whoever wins it needs a good mandolin and not just another mandolin.

[Mandoviol]

The one in the pic for the giveaway is just beautiful. I hope whoever wins it needs a good mandolin and not just another mandolin.

That's why I entered...starving students can't usually afford higher-grade instruments, and with the way my left-hand muscles are, I'd sorely appreciate a new mando with a v-neck....

[Kip Carter]

The one in the pic for the giveaway is just beautiful. I hope whoever wins it needs a good mandolin and not just another mandolin.

Give away???
Kip...

[Andy Fielding]

The Loar is the silliest name ever? Not hardly. I say it's notable jazz pianist Dick Hymen...
Well, that's Hyman with an A, for what it's worth... But yes, he's had a spectacular career scoring movies, playing jazz festivals around the world, and doing just about everything else—and his name certainly hasn't held him back.

There's a saying in Hollywood: "There's no such thing as bad publicity." Would Lady Gaga be so famous if she were still Stefani Germanotta? Is it any coincidence Kinko's copy stores went nationwide? The Barenaked Ladies got their big break when a town council voted to ban their concert, assuming there'd be something indecent about it—and it made the headlines.

Lots of hugely successful people and products have had stimulating, unusual names. I don't know if Dennis was actually out to create such a stir, but heck, look at all the discussion his new mandos have gotten here because of their unusual name.

The Flatiron Dennis sold me when I visited him last year is the sweetest mandolin I've ever had. He gave it to me at a very reasonable price. He and his family also spent a couple of HOURS with me, jamming, talking instruments and music, and later treating me to dinner (!). They didn't have to do all that, as they'd already made the sale. They are decent, real folks, and I wish them only the best with their new venture.

[Gelsenbury]

"The Dennis" would be perfect for me, since that's my name! Can you imagine my friends' faces when they see "The Dennis" on the headstock? :D

[Mike Bunting]

Hey! I'm "delirious" about "mandolins". That strikes me as a rather sensible name around here. Besides when your're stuck with that most ubiquitous of english male names (Mike) it's good to have nickname.
Hey, Mike, there's a reason that The Mike is a ubiquitous name!
Sincerely,
Mike

[Mike Snyder]

There's probably several reasons, just like there are usually several Mikes at any given jam these days. Those nicknames can get pretty brutal, at times, even if you give one to yourself.

[Paul Edwards]

I would really love to hear one of these mandolins played... a video anyone?

[Caleb]

Give away???
Kip...
See Cafe homepage.

[Kip Carter]

Got it about 5 minutes after asking... mmmmmm wanta wanta wanta... (lusting after giveaway mando!)
Kip....

[JeffD]

Using "The" for a budget, entry-level instrument is absurd. .

Hmmm. I never attached much significance to the "the" before. I guess its an ambitious name. But in a new instrument trying to gain a following, ambition is not inappropriate.

I mentioned this to some friends yesterday, and one young woman (15) said, with dreamy eyes, that "The Lafferty" is James Lafferty - an actor on some popular television series. She maintains that James is "The Lafferty" and the mandolin should be called "The Other Lafferty".

Knowing when to say something is much more important than knowing what to say.

[JeffD]

I hope whoever wins it needs a good mandolin and not just another mandolin.

That is an excellent point. I am maybe a little embarassed not to have thought of it myself. I don't want to exclude anyone, or rig the lottery, or have an entrance requirement, but if I have a preference as to a winner, that would be it.

[Kip Carter]

That is an excellent point. I am maybe a little embarassed not to have thought of it myself. I don't want to exclude anyone, or rig the lottery, or have an entrance requirement, but if I have a preference as to a winner, that would be it.

I totally agree!! MEEEEEEEEEeeeeeee!
:grin:
Kip...

[George R. Lane]

It really doesn't matter who makes it or what its' name is. The only thing of importance is how it plays and sounds. My hat is off to Dennis for bringing in another quality mandolin at an affordable price, that is made in the USA.

[MandoMan1]

Yeah I guess it doesn't really matter who builds The Lafferty Mandolin, but I am thinking Larrivee might be the builder.

[Grommet]

More choices in quality mandolins is a good thing! Think I'll have to pay a visit to Surprise, AZ soon. It's closer now that they moved from Wickenberg. BTW, there are no mikes allowed at the jam I go to.

Scott

[Mike Bunting]

there are no mikes allowed at the jam I go to.Scott
That's outrageous!

Yours truly,
The Mike

[mandolirius]

That's outrageous!

Yours truly,
The Mike

I totally agree. In fact, I'm thinking of starting a jam and not allowing anyone named Scott.

Another Mike

[8ch(pl)]

I have an intertest in Lafferty Mandolins, since I am shortly going to win one in a Draw.

[JeffD]

Yours truly,
The Mike

:))

[Ribak]

I have an intertest in Lafferty Mandolins, since I am shortly going to win one in a Draw.

You too?

[Gerry Cassidy]

..........

[MandoMan1]

Actually I think Summit mandolin builder Paul Schneider might be the builder of the Lafferty Mandolins. That is my last guess on who the builder might be.

[Gerry Cassidy]

As I started to say above, I think it's a guy named Mike, who has nothing to do but sit at home building mandolins because he's not allowed to go to any jam sessions. ;)

[Mike Bunting]

As I started to say above, I think it's a guy named Mike, who has nothing to do but sit at home building mandolins because he's not allowed to go to any jam sessions. ;)

:))

The Mike

[i-vibe]

" win one in a Draw"

seems in "draw"....there is no winner.

[DonaldK]

Ya, I am getting redundant, but having read all the previous posts above, I am certain that the issues regarding build-site, price point, will become moot to anyone getting their hands on a Lafferty. It is an awesome instrument.

I received my Lafferty LF-5BW just about 2 weeks ago. Anyone thinking about getting a mandolin, should be aware of what a special instrument she is. Visually, for sure, she is outstanding. Just looking at her, there is the highest level of attention to detail and workmanship. But so much more important--as has been pointed out above, most important--she sounds amazing. On picking her up, there is immediately the draw to play, and then ..then..there is gorgeous sound; she sings.

Yep, I was instantly blown away by her build quality, and then by her sound, and for a number of days, I was wondering whether I was dreaming Had someone sent me an instrument costing in the big digits by mistake? I would have posted sooner, in fact, but thought I might have been in some kind of alternate universe. No. She is the real thing, and really here.

I am absolutely convinced that with this level of instrument, the Lafferty line will soon be making headlines, and it will become near impossible to get one. Wow...great job, Dennis (Nancy)......really. The music world is about to be very grateful for this terrific offering.

Anyone looking into one of these mandolins will know immediately what I am talking about, and be very very happy that they did.

Don Kamens, MD

[Adam Sweet]

Honestly I can't see how they can make quality carved mandolins in the US. I am guessing the parts are made in China and assembled/finished here in the US.

[Kip Carter]

With CNC doing the base removal of material making the final effort much less involved, I can easily see how it could be done. Having a machine do what a machine does best and having a human craftsman do what they do best if paired correctly could be a very cost efficient model for any shore. The key is the craftsman and how far the machine is utilized to reduce unnecessary tasks that simply need to be achieved and do not reflect on subjective attributes that impact the quality of the eventual product.
Kip...

[The Mandolin Store]

Honestly I can't see how they can make quality carved mandolins in the US. I am guessing the parts are made in China and assembled/finished here in the US.

I addressed this issue in earlier post that these instruments are made in USA - not assembled in USA from parts made in China. When we introduce a made in China Lafferty, we'll say that's what it is. I don't think that being a teacher at a small music store where Savanna is the best mandolin brand they sell qualifies you to question the integrity of the largest mandolin dealer in the world. Last year we were the number 1 mandolin dealer for Gibson, Weber, Collings, Eastman, and Breedlove. This is not by accident, we work hard for our customers. While we may not be prefect we strive to be and do our best to treat our customers like they live next door. If everyone on the internet interacted this way, it would be a better place. It's not likely people would be so likely to insult their neighbor as they know he could knock on their door and express his displeasure in person

[Mike Bunting]

With CNC doing the base removal of material making the final effort much less involved, I can easily see how it could be done. Having a machine do what a machine does best and having a human craftsman do what they do best if paired correctly could be a very cost efficient model for any shore. The key is the craftsman and how far the machine is utilized to reduce unnecessary tasks that simply need to be achieved and do not reflect on subjective attributes that impact the quality of the eventual product.
Kip...

What do you think Collings does?

[Kip Carter]

What do you think Collings does?

Mike... I was pointing out to mandoteacher that built in the USA was not so insurmountable. This was specific to the Made in USA reference by the Mandolin Store for The Lafferty. I wasn't suggesting anyone was or wasn't but was only pointing out that manufacturing methodologies exist that make that entirely possible within the USA at the price point they are selling these. Obviously, because The Mandolin Store and it's suppliers have proven just that.
Kip...

[Brett Byers]

Honestly I can't see how they can make quality carved mandolins in the US. I am guessing the parts are made in China and assembled/finished here in the US.

We've been doing it every day for fifteen years. And as Dennis pointed out, so are a lot of other good folks. There are great Made in the USA (entirely) mandolins available at a wide variety of price points. Affordable does not have to mean Made in China.

[northfolk]

There is nothing second rate about The Lafferty line of mandolins? They are absolutely first-class all the way. As near as I can tell, the only thing that is not hand made is the tailpiece and tuners? Workmanship is flawless, materials first rate, the sound is outstanding top to bottom; perfectly balanced and loud enough to survive any jam setting? And of course when you buy one, you have the added bonus of dealing with Dennis and the Staff at The Mandolin Store. If you are looking to upgrade your mandolin, check out The Lafferty, while you still can; they will become more difficult to find and keep up with the demand? I already have mine, as you know? :mandosmiley:~o)

[MikeEdgerton]

There's no doubt in my mind where the Lafferty I was playing was made.

[Adam Sweet]

I don't think that being a teacher at a small music store where Savanna is the best mandolin brand they sell qualifies you to question the integrity of the largest mandolin dealer in the world.

I wasn't questioning your integrity, Dennis. I read the original post and commented. I hadn't read your response about the history of the line before I commented.

I still don't see how it can be done, but as you point out, I'm just a teacher and don't know anything.

[Adam Sweet]

I addressed this issue in earlier post that these instruments are made in USA - not assembled in USA from parts made in China. When we introduce a made in China Lafferty, we'll say that's what it is. I don't think that being a teacher at a small music store where Savanna is the best mandolin brand they sell qualifies you to question the integrity of the largest mandolin dealer in the world. Last year we were the number 1 mandolin dealer for Gibson, Weber, Collings, Eastman, and Breedlove. This is not by accident, we work hard for our customers. While we may not be prefect we strive to be and do our best to treat our customers like they live next door. If everyone on the internet interacted this way, it would be a better place. It's not likely people would be so likely to insult their neighbor as they know he could knock on their door and express his displeasure in person

I don't see how insulting me gets your point across, Dennis. I don't know you and I don't know anything about your business.

[Kip Carter]

I don't see how insulting me gets your point across, Dennis. I don't know you and I don't know anything about your business.

MT,
Exactly why your comment elicited the response from Dennis as it did. There is a tremendous investment in launching a brand as they are doing. It is one thing to do so in a market where there is little competition, however when you are attempting to launch into a market place where competition is strong to begin with and then attempt to do that with a high quality product; then distinguishing elements become critical to the success of the brand.

To suggest that the brand is less than the proprietor suggests it is; impinges the integrity of the brand. So you see, your comment was in fact an attack on the brand, even if you meant no harm by it.
Kip...

[Markus]

I still don't see how it can be done

Collings and Weber make mandolins for slightly more than the Lafferty.

Breedlove made a f-hole A style USA made mandolin for years for $1k, only within the last month have prices gone up.

Sonny Morris makes and sells mandolins in Oregon for under $1k and I'm sure there are a number of other individual makers who are priced in the Lafferty range. All completely US made.

I guess I don't see why this couldn't be done, especially in today's world of CNC where parts can be roughed out to leave only the final handwork, saving many hours yet giving a reliable and remarkable product.

I don't know if Weber/Sound to Earth uses a CNC, but I'm pretty sure Collings does - and their mandolins command a much higher price than all handmade imports and have no problem selling.

[Mo Soar]

I keep waiting for the Lafferty octaves to come in so someone can buy one and then tell me what they think - my price point for an octave is $1,000 or less (preferably used, depending on which octave and what condition), so it's close...

Besides, after I win the drawing, then I could have a matched set!

[trevor]

I make it a policy not to comment on controversial threads because I don't like getting involved in arguments but every rule has an exception (therefore that rule must also have an exception, 'the exception to the rule that every rule has an exception is sod's law.. (let me know if sod's law doesn't translate into American))..

Here goes... I am not just referring to this thread or any particular poster but it sometimes occurs to me that some folks are inclined to make statements about subjects where their knowledge is insufficient to justify the point made. It would take a great knowledge of many different fields, manufacturing costs, labour costs and regulation, finance costs, rent, insurance, fuel and many others to work out the costs of manufacturing anything. I think some folks think running a business is is a straightforward matter.. Its not, after 37 years in many different kinds of small business I only feel remotely competent in areas where I have years of experience.

Of course its always good to hear other's views. I have followed suggestions from those with no experience, they can have a fresh view and spot things that the experienced (jaundiced?) eye doesn't see..

[Brent Hutto]

Mr. mandoteacher was clearly incorrect about the practicality of making mandolins at The Lafferty's price point entirely in a USA workshop.

He was however entirely correct that by stooping to personal insults Mr. The Mandolin Store does himself a disservice, harming the perception of his own brand while detracting from his factual defense of his product.

I hope he goes back and edits his response in keeping with this forum's no-personal-attacks spirit and lets his factual defense of the product speak for itself.

[Kip Carter]

Brent,
Unfortunately I think because too much time has passed there is no way the post can be altered by either individual. Perhaps a moderator could 'Amend' them under the right conditions.

I think the comment that sparked this was not one of disbelief but rather one of amazement. I also understand having launched a brand in the past that there is a great deal of blood and sweat equity invested in doing so not to mention money, and the subsequent sensitivity to what could be perceived as public rebuttal to the underpinnings of the brand.

Just was unfortunate that this happened but people are people and we all can say things that we would rather not have said.
Kip...

[Gerry Cassidy]

Mr. mandoteacher was clearly incorrect about the practicality of making mandolins at The Lafferty's price point entirely in a USA workshop.

He was however entirely correct that by stooping to personal insults Mr. The Mandolin Store does himself a disservice, harming the perception of his own brand while detracting from his factual defense of his product.

I hope he goes back and edits his response in keeping with this forum's no-personal-attacks spirit and lets his factual defense of the product speak for itself.

Where was the personal attack? All I have read, thus far, is the questioning of someone's professional expertise to back a bold statement. I didn't read anything personal, from any of the participants, in any of the preceding statements.

One person commented that what was being advertised could not hold true. That was a direct question of one's professional abilities. The counterpoint was that one should be careful to make such a statement based on their public credentials.

Where I come from, if you put your professional posterior on the block you had better watch for the hatchet.

You may have found the language in the point/counterpoint as aggressive. That may be true, but I do not read any of it as personal.

Great debate so far, gentlemen. Carry on!

[Brent Hutto]

I don't think it has been a great debate at all nor would I wish to see it carry on in an inflammatory manner. I was rather hoping for the "debate" to settle into a discussion of the merits of the instruments in question, their pricing and their manner of origin. Like most topics, it can discussed politely or heatedly, depending entirely on how each of us chooses to behave.

[Kip Carter]

I don't think it has been a great debate at all nor would I wish to see it carry on in an inflammatory manner. I was rather hoping for the "debate" to settle into a discussion of the merits of the instruments in question, their pricing and their manner of origin. Like most topics, it can discussed politely or heatedly, depending entirely on how each of us chooses to behave.

Amen Brent!
Kip...

[Ignatius]

[snip] I was rather hoping for the "debate" to settle into a discussion of the merits of the instruments in question, their pricing and their manner of origin. Like most topics, it can discussed politely or heatedly, depending entirely on how each of us chooses to behave.
A second amen from the congregation, Brent, and I'll add an assisting transition: did anyone on the board take possession of the wide nut Lafferty F in walnut stain finish? If so, I would very much like a review of how nut and neck feel in comparison to, say, a typical Weber neck. I'd also love to see additional pictures. I long wanted one of the original Gibson F9s, but these new Laffertys (or are they Lafferties?) look even better and have a great price point.

Ignatius

[MikeEdgerton]

The thread is being read by several moderators. If there was a problem it would have been edited. Feel free to carry on.

[George R. Lane]

I will say once again - It does not matter where they are made, only how they play and sound.
Dennis is not going to tell us where they are made so accept that fact and move along.

[Tom C]

Wow. a NOT closed thread. 'nough said

[MikeEdgerton]

Dennis telling us where they are made, they are made in the US. He's not telling us who made them for him. He's gone so far as to say that the day he has one made in another country he will identify it as such. He is a straight shooter and I see no reason to doubt what he is saying.

[Patrick Gunning]

Besides, it's not incredibly difficult to identify the (very reputable) U.S. builder behind these with a little research and open eyes.

[Elliot Luber]

Hartley Peavey was always fond of telling the press that as far as he knew, "there was no Mr. Yamaha."

[Mike Romkey]

The fact that this is still a topic of discussion proves one thing, which I might have said last month: Great marketing! I hope I win the one they're giving away.

[JonZ]

Aside from the fact that the name contains the word "laff"...

Also contains the word "ferty". :redface:

[djc227]

These two mandolins in the classifieds look pretty similar don't they?

http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=54168&query=retrieval

http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=54161&query=retrieval

Not to open a controversial topic, I just thought it was interesting when I was going through the classifieds. This was an interesting discussion at one point!

[dcoventry]

I make it a policy not to comment on controversial threads because I don't like getting involved in arguments but every rule has an exception (therefore that rule must also have an exception, 'the exception to the rule that every rule has an exception is sod's law.. (let me know if sod's law doesn't translate into American))..

Here goes... I am not just referring to this thread or any particular poster but it sometimes occurs to me that some folks are inclined to make statements about subjects where their knowledge is insufficient to justify the point made. It would take a great knowledge of many different fields, manufacturing costs, labour costs and regulation, finance costs, rent, insurance, fuel and many others to work out the costs of manufacturing anything. I think some folks think running a business is is a straightforward matter.. Its not, after 37 years in many different kinds of small business I only feel remotely competent in areas where I have years of experience.

Of course its always good to hear other's views. I have followed suggestions from those with no experience, they can have a fresh view and spot things that the experienced (jaundiced?) eye doesn't see..

Hysterical. Laughable. And so, so, so accurate. Beautifully written piece of prose.

This thing we do as small business people is a labor of love, certainly not corrected for profit. But, hey, oh well, I do what I do for love of the thing.

[djc227]

Just to put any speculation to rest, Weber is not involved in any aspect of Dennis' new line.

Never mind!

[Loretta Callahan]

Well, after I win the drawing, I'll share my opinion with folks .... as 4 years of playing a mandolin on three instruments has most surely made me the expert on such matters.

[Bob Borzelleri]

These two mandolins in the classifieds look pretty similar don't they?

http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=54168&query=retrieval

http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=54161&query=retrieval

Not to open a controversial topic, I just thought it was interesting when I was going through the classifieds. This was an interesting discussion at one point!

I think all mandolins look alike. In they didn't someone would be able to pass a banjo off as a mando.

[djc227]

Only if noone was using their ears.

[jwilesF5]

Just buy The Gibson.

[trevor]

Three year gap!!

[Emmett Marshall]

I wish Dennis would have consulted with me before choosing the name for his new line. I would have suggested "The Menace."

[Mickey King]

Just buy The Gibson.

I've yet to play a Gibson in the state of Tennessee that I would trade my Lafferty for! Most of the Gibson's I've played have been a let down. Not saying there not out there, I've just been disappointed in the one I've found for sale. Just my opinion.

[jwilesF5]

I've had the opportunity to play two of the post flood havery mandos. A F5G and a goldrush. Boy it's hard to put in words the sounds and tone. All the hype. Believe me till you hear or play one you just want fully understand the hype of the new gibson mandolins. I haven't raked up the cash yet to get one. I'll keep playing my old clawson till the day comes. The custom builders these days along with the gibson are the best time to be in the market I suppose. I flirt constantly with the idea to have Skip Kelley build me one but I worry about resale should I ever depart with the instrument. Never heard or played a Lafferty. But if Dennis has anything to do do with it I'm sure it's good. As pro gibson as he is. MAS needs to go away!!!!

[Petrus]

I like the Lafferty OM in walnut & cedar that TMS has right now ... can't afford it yet though. Does the Mando Store take trade-ins? I'd trade in my TCOM for some credit towards that.

[jwilesF5]

I think they do take trade-ins. I'm not 100% sure though. Just give them a call and email pics of what you have.