Bluegrass Fans are Country Fans??...

[Mando Bondage]

Hi Everyone,

I was just wondering,...are those fans of Bluegrass (on this forum), Country Music fans as well, or "not so much"? Having always been aware of Bluegrass, but recently starting to listen more intently,(due to the Mandolin, of course!), I have always held more interest in Rock, Blues, Rockabilly, and OLD Traditional Country. I am now developing a true appreciation for Bluegrass and even some tinges of Old Time music as well. So,...are there Bluegrass fans who are NOT fans of Country Music, (Traditional OR Contemporary)??

[Markus]

Not a fan of any country music from after I was born [1970], and only coming to be a fan of old, classic country as I age.

I'll never be the fan of old country the way I love bluegrass [or Bob Wills, or the Carter Family songbook].

Quite a lot gets to be how you define old country ... a wide category or just Opry-focused.

[almeriastrings]

Not so much. Can certainly listen to (and appreciate) the old Merle Haggard, George Jones (what a voice!), Buck Owens (love Don Rich's tele sounds!), etc., but the current stuff leaves me stone cold. Yuk.

Actually... make that double-yuk.

[Mando Bondage]

I consider OLD Traditional Country to be artists such as Hank SR., OLD Merle H, Lefty, Johnny Cash, George Jones, Buck Owens and the Bakersfield Sound, etc., and "current" artists like Dwight Yoakam, Dale Watson, even Alan Jackson.....just to clarify a bit

[Fretbear]

"Contemporary Country?"
By that you would mean God-awful moronic commercial pop music dumbed down for the barely-literate masses?
It makes actual "Hillbilly" music sound high-brow.

[Isaac Revard]

Trad country is alright, cant not like Merle Haggard. As for the rest of "contemporary country" I don't think they hold a candle to Chris Thile, Edgar Meyer or my dearest Aoife..etc. I'd rather listen to NPR discuss Herman Cain's sexual harassment accusations than tune into Sugar Land on the radio...

As far as the blues go...check out Rich Delgrosso or Yank Rachell...you can play the blues on the mando come to find out...

[AKmusic]

I enjoy country music that is straight up acoustic - no drums.

Otherwise I can tolerate listening to some of it, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

[swampstomper]

I think many bluegrass fans are in my camp: we appreciate honest country music -- songs that tell real stories about real people, from the heart -- even if they are composed for commercial success. Dolly Parton (who toured with the Grascals and has cut two very good bluegrass albums, not to mention the very early Muleskinner Blues) comes to mind among current artists. Her old partner Porter Wagoner RIP (who hired Mac Magaha away from Reno and Smiley). Of course sincere singers like Hank Williams (Sr.) and Hank Snow. Bob Wills. Merle Haggard especially in his heartfelt tributes to Jimmy Rodgers and Bob Wills. And there is a pretty thin line between bluegrass and country -- to my mind (and maybe theirs) Osborne Brothers and Jim & Jesse are much more country music stars of the Grand Ole Opry than bluegrass musicians as such.

[greg_tsam]

As Cousin Ricky likes to say, "Country Rocks but Bluegrass Rules!"

[JeffD]

If I chimed in you would think I was just going with the flow, but the fact is I independantly agree with everyone's post.

Todays country music is not to my taste. 90s country music, though better, is not as good as 80s, which is not as good as 70s...

The kind of country music I like best is the country music from which bluegrass evolved. One way of looking at it I suppose, is that bluegrass captured and preserved what was valuable and good about country music, and left the rest to slowly decay.

There are plenty of exceptions, and I don't like all bluegrass any more than I dislike all modern country, but as a general overarching trend drawn with a small set of crayons, I think I am right.

[MikeEdgerton]

I grew up on old country, it was all that was played in our house when I was growing up. I enjoy bluegrass, I enjoy the new country music. I guess I'm just low class and all but there are very few music genres that I don't like.

[sunburst]

I think that what I don't like is what the music industry has done to popular music. The stuff on commercial radio stations has more to do with the "music business" than with music, IMHO, YMMV, ETC,.

[Mandolin Mick]

Not interested in any modern Country other than possibly Patty Loveless. In trad Country I find Johnny Cash interesting and the occasional instrumentalist like Roy Clark or Glen Campbell. I was raised on people like Sinatra and Tom Jones, and my early musical background was Classic Rock and Classical so I never acquired a taste for it. I don't associate Bluegrass with Country though I know they have the same roots.

[barney 59]

Much of the old country music for sure but even back in the day a lot of what was promoted and aired on radio was trash. It's only in hindsight and years of filtering do we think it was better then. Today there are a great many talented and interesting "country" musicians. I Like Ryan Bingham,Mark Paisley, Marty Stuart for example. Country has leaned more towards Rock and Roll of late. So much so that much of it is more rock and roll than what is being produced as rock and roll. I have to admit that I am not in high pursuit of country music and I would guess that hardcore country fans might know about other good or great country musicians that basically are under my radar. Pretty much a condition that might exist to the casual listener of bluegrass. Commercial interests wreck it, it seems, every time. The cream will eventually come to the surface --we hope.

[Mandolin Mick]

When I hear modern country it sounds like rock with Southern voices and the occasional pedal steel or dobro thrown in to give some kind of Country "feel" to it.

[Jeff Budz]

I'm a sucker for pedal steel guitar, and like that country swing style. Classic country is fine with me, although I haven't studied it like I have other generas. Love those Willie Nelson recordings.

Not such a fan of modern country, but occasionally there are some catchy tunes on the radio. But it's not my thing just like modern rock isn't my thing.

[Barry Wilson]

I am a rock, jazz fusion horn section kinda guy. I never really liked country cry in your beer stuff. Since getting a mandolin and looking for mando music I have grown to really enjoy the technical nature of bluegrass, and it's fast bouncy music...

[Elliot Luber]

There's some real talent playing country music today, but often it's hidden behind a commercial veneer.

[Willie Poole]

If you have a satallite dish or a cable server that offers the RFD -TV channel tune in a nd listen to "Country`s Family Get togethers every Sat night at 11PM....They bring in the original country artist, not all of them but a lot of them, and they sing the old standards live, Jimmy Dickens, Roy Clark, Jim Ed Brown, Jean Shephard and a whole lot more, it is hosted by Bill Anderson and I rally enjoy watching it myself....When I was coming up the music was called "Hillbilly" music and had a mixture of country and bluegrass, there wasn`t all that many bluegrass bands though, Monroe, Flatt and Scruggs, Jim and Jesse, Reno and Smiley, Hilo Brown, The Stanley Bros., Stoneman Family just to name a few...

I listen to as much of Haggard, Jones, Porter Wagoner as I can, love them all....Nothing like them now days

[barney 59]

When I hear modern country it sounds like rock with Southern voices and the occasional pedal steel or dobro thrown in to give some kind of Country "feel" to it.

Didn't Rock always have country voices? Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, --places like Cleveland would like to claim it but the music came from the South which is pretty much where most all the American music got it's start. Country,Blues, Jazz, Rock and Roll ---Bluegrass. When you really think about it early rock and country music and Southern Blues of that period were pretty closely related. It's not that much of a stretch to think that they can do it again or that it ever did really change.

[jmalmsteen]

I love bluegrass but only like a few country songs. Cash is an exception since I love his music. I like some classic country but I dislike most modern pop like country music.

[mandobassman]

I can't tolerate much of today's country music. It's basically what pop/rock was from 20 years ago with a fiddle, pedal steel and some twangy voice thrown in. I actually played in a top 40 country band in the mid 80's and didn't really like much of it back then. I love the country style from the 50's and 60's. I also play upright bass and love to play that stuff on bass.

[jschall84]

I love country music, but I hate pop. I can't think of one band you would here on country radio that I would not call pop...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Firstly,i've always thought that Bluegrass music WAS Country music & what you're refering to is the current version of what used to be named 'Country & Western'. By 'Country' i mean a music that originated with 'rural dwelling folk',not urbanites.But i take your distinction on board & for me, what you term Country music died along with Hank Williams. After Hank's death the whole thing went to h**l (IMHO),with more interest being given to appearance than music. Maybe the only 'Country' singer that i've liked,mainly for his voice & some of the songs he's sung which i like,is Don Williams, & on the female side of things,Nanci Griffith & Iris Dement,again for their wonderful voices & songs.Very likely i'm overlooking some fine singers,but for me Bluegrass surely rules !!,
Ivan;):cool:

[MikeEdgerton]

...By 'Country' i mean a music that originated with 'rural dwelling folk',not urbanites.... on the female side of things,Nanci Griffith & Iris Dement...

I happen to like them both as well and I'm sure Iris was influenced greatly by her childhood in rural Orange County, California. :cool:

[Geordie]

I actually got in to bluegrass through listening to country music (REAL country music; Carter Family, Jimmie Rogers, Buck Owens, Hank Williams, etc. etc.). So, yes, a fan of both.

[Kevin Stevens]

I am not a country fan in general, although I do like a few artists. But I have always loved country rock. Today's popular country music has really become more of that country rock style, but I still don't listen to it. However I have always liked bluegrass for the skilled talent it requires. I tend to gravitate towards music that is based on highly skilled playing and less on looks and production tricks.

[J.Albert]

True story:

Years ago, I remember Keith Whitley playing with Ralph Stanley after Roy Lee Centers was murdered.

Then Keith left Ralph, and worked for J.D. Crowe for a little while. I think either after that (or was it just before, this was a long time ago!), Keith was with another touring band for a while.

And then, I didn't see or hear of him anymore. I figured he didn't want to tour any more, or perhaps even had quit playing altogether.

Years went by.

Then, out of the blue, I heard that "country music star" Keith Whitley had died from alcohol poisoning!

Keith? How could that be true?
I thought he had quit the music...

True story.
Shows you how much attention I had paid to "country"...

- John

[Spruce]

I tend to gravitate towards music that is based on highly skilled playing and less on looks and production tricks.

Those "production tricks" are devastating to the ears, and render the whole genre of "country" unlistenable, especially after being subjected to yet another round of compression by the radio station itself...

I'm in the midst of a road trip, and wound up listening to country radio for an hour or so as I drove the California coast...
It's always an interesting listen, and I marvel at how they are able to compress every single instrument to the breaking point in the all-consuming effort to get louder...

Sonically, it has more in common with hair metal than country, and even if someone was deaf they could look at the waveforms in GarageBand and see that all of this is just plain wrong...

YMMV...

[mandolirius]

"Country" music is fast on its way to becoming nearly irrelevant. There will continue to be an industry based in Nashville but the country scene in this part of the world is pretty much dead. Outside the cities there's a bit, especially in ranching/logging country but not much. Here in Victoria, someone is attempting to start a revival/classic country scene at a bar that used to be pretty much all country at one time.

I worked for a major country station at the time the decision was made to change the sound of country music to what you hear today. It sounded like it was going to be ugly and, to me, it is. BTW, what prompted the change was a severy drop in the classic rock format. Reasoning that those listeners would have nowhere to go on the radio dia, the powers that be dediced a more grungier guitar sound and some other changes in production would capture those listeners. Radio programming, more than ever, is a very corporate kind of scene.

[Bernie Daniel]

Firstly,i've always thought that Bluegrass music WAS Country music & what you're refering to is the current version of what used to be named 'Country & Western'. By 'Country' i mean a music that originated with 'rural dwelling folk',not urbanites.But i take your distinction on board & for me, what you term Country music died along with Hank Williams. After Hank's death the whole thing went to h**l (IMHO),with more interest being given to appearance than music. Maybe the only 'Country' singer that i've liked,mainly for his voice & some of the songs he's sung which i like,is Don Williams, & on the female side of things,Nanci Griffith & Iris Dement,again for their wonderful voices & songs.Very likely i'm overlooking some fine singers,but for me Bluegrass surely rules !!, Ivan;):cool:

Exactly! The starting points for national recognition of country music and artists were the Grand Old Opry and the Louisiana Hayride. Both featured bluegrass players as part of the show -- historically bluegrass is a form of country music. That is not really debatable is it?

I like most "old" country and some modern country music and the artists as well -- some I can easily get along without. But modern country and bluegrass are from the same family tree.

[mandopops]

I work in a Music dept. of a store. If asked if I like Country Music my standard reply is," I don't listen to much Contemporary Country Music, but sure, I like Country Music. I like Hank Williams, Bob Wills, Bill Monroe, Carl Perkins, & Muddy Waters" (Actually in reverse order).

That said, my tastes are similar with much here, but I'm slightly surprised by the turn-off many of the Bluegrass fans have to much of the other "Country" Music. I'm not a huge Bluegrass follower, so I'm not coming at it the same way. I really like early Monroe. I don't listen to a great deal beyond that. ( I do like Jim & Jesse, I don't like the Osbornes, Their singing is too damn high.)

What I'm getting at is someone like Jimmy Martin. He's "Bluegrass", so he "Rules" over dozens of other "Country" singers? Please, give me a break. Mac Wiseman too. He seems like a nice enough fellow, but his singing is more in the Ray Price corny smooth style. Does Lester Flatt really sing with more "soul" than, Willie Nelson, Patsy Cline, Chuck Berry, John Lennon....

I should tread lightly when stepping into the Bluegrass forum, things could get hostile pretty quick.

[Denny Gies]

I'm in Markus' camp....love the '50's and '60's stuff but today's "country" music does nothing for me. Whatever happened to Stonewall Jackson?

[AlanN]

Commercial radio has always been a fickle thing, going where the money goes. We all have stories of this-or-that radio station radically switching gears at the drop of a hat. Years ago, there used to be Trenton, NJ station called WYRS that played stuff right up my alley, with a weekly program called "Jazz from the 40s/50s/60s". One day, went to talk. I was so bummed.

Of recent memory country stars, if it was Skaggs, Dwight Yoakam, Steve Wariner, somebody like that, I could deal with it.

[farmerjones]

I grew up in a home with King Crimson, Mountain, CSN&Y, Beatles, and the Who playing through a Pioneer stereo. I found Bluegrass on my own. One of my early employers was from a Bluegrass family.
I love BIll Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, J.S.Bach, Bix, A.P. Carter, Charlie Poole, Steph Grappelli, Gatemouth Brown, Leon Russell, Luke the Drifter, George Strait, George Jones, Grandpa Jones, Benny Martin, John Hartford, Hot Rize, Beach Boys, Spyro Gyra, Meynard Ferguson, and The Preservation Hall Jazz Band.
But i know better than to lump Hank Williams, and Pasty Cline in with Montgomery Gentry, and Sugarland.

I love good music wherever i find it.

[Mark Hudson]

One of the things I can't figure out with country radio, at least on one of my rare drives though the south...
Up north we have rock radio (yeah, most of that is also corporate garbage), but you scan the radio dial and you get classic rock, contemporary, urban, oldies... all kinds of variation as each radio station tries to differentiate itself from the others.
I hit the country stations down south (you can't avoid it), and they all sounded exactly the same... don't understand that marketing at all.
'Bout the only "county" I own is Cash, some Steve Earle, and the country parts of the "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" sets. Oh, and Emmylou! <3

[M.Marmot]

But i know better than to lump Hank Williams, and Pasty Cline in with Montgomery Gentry, and Sugarland.

I love good music wherever i find it.

:) I'm easily amused i know but 'Pasty Cline' is still cracking me up

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?79168-Tabs-for-Patsy-Cline-song-quot-Crazy-quot

In reply to the O.P., while i am willing to give most musics a sporting chance i would not be rushing out to buy much modern country music. I do have a lot more time for the 'Americana' type bands though and for those folks and mavericks who don't really fit in the neat peghole category.

I think, on the whole what turns me off a range of music will be the production values, i am left cold when albums are over produced, too slick, when the album sounds too much like a studio and less like a band... if that makes any sense.

[Dennis Ladd]

Yes, for me, I do listen to country. I notice I like the artists who spend some time writing their songs to tell a story (hello, Merle Haggard, Carlene Carter, and my personal favorite, Rodney Crowell) and don't just do novelty tunes. Being a bluegrasser/fiddle tuneser, I want that instrumental flash so I listen to the ones who let their back-up musicians stretch out a little. Rodney Crowell again, Ricky Skaggs in his country days, Emmy Lou Harris (love her no matter what), etc.

In fact, lots of et ceteras to the above people list. And lots of exceptions, too.

[JeffD]

I'm slightly surprised by the turn-off many of the Bluegrass fans have to much of the other "Country" Music. I'm not a huge Bluegrass follower, so I'm not coming at it the same way. .

I don't think bluegrass fans, as a whole, are any more turned off to modern country music than the average vintage country fan. The only difference, I think, that bluegrass fans have, is a love for a still contemporary form of country music that has not been entirely diluted for the general public.

What strikes me as interesting, looking through the telescope the other way, is how the modern country music establishment doesn't like bluegrass. Perhaps it reminds them of what was sold off long ago.

[Billgrass]

One thing you can't deny: Lyle's got style!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quote - "Lyle's got style !" . Has he got that boat yet ?,:grin:
Ivan~:>

[journeybear]

He sure does, and a pony, too. I also like how he bought the old home place.

I wish someone would explain to me how/why it is that music was always better back then than it is now. :confused: If it keeps getting worse, how bad can it get? Looking backward, was there a point when it was utterly magnificent? Is there some association with the music people are hearing while they are falling in love? "Today's music ain't got the same soul, not like that old time rock and roll." I used to hear this attitude (and variations) when I was a teenager, not only from the previous generation, wistfully remembering the Big Band era, but also from radio stations playing "Oldies But Goodies" and "Blasts From The Past" - even while spinning their Top 40 hits. Was "How Much Is That Doggie In The Window" really better than "Hound Dog?" I don't think so!

Perhaps there are occasional sudden increases in quality despite a general diminishing, so it never gets completely horrible. The rock 'n' rollers and rockabilly cats and doo-wop groups of the 50s bumped it up considerably from all that "How High The Moon" spodee-o. The subsequent rise of teen idols like Frankie and Annette led to a doldrum that The Beatles and Dylan blasted out of. For a few years the quality actually increased, while the psychedelic era ushered in a wave of creativity and record companies scrambled to sign everyone they could find to find the next big hit. The inmates were running the asylum for a few years, and a lot of good music (and admittedly some pretty weird stuff too) got produced and played that never would have been otherwise. Somehow this movement lost its way (a few key deaths may have contributed), and the rise of disco, easy and cheap to produce, helped put a lot of these bands out of business. By the late 70s even stalwarts like The Rolling Stones and Grateful Dead had gone disco, however briefly. Heavy metal and hair bands pretty much did in hard rock, and New Wave did in pop. It got so bad I pretty much stopped listening to radio altogether, as I found I could make up better songs in my head than I was hearing. There were a few bands I liked - Springsteen, Little Feat, Be Bop Deluxe, Supertramp, Tom Petty, Talking Heads, Pretenders - but by and large I had lost interest. (I didn't see it coming then, but in the mid-80s rap - the ultimate in easy-and-cheap-to-produce music - would do in a lot of the rest of rock and soul music, and my interest in radio.)

Then came "Urban Cowboy" and Dolly Parton - what a one-two punch. A friend of mine started turning me on to country music, and I found something I had been missing - human voices, telling stories about real people in real situations with clever turns of phrase, musicians given free rein to play (some of the picking at the ends of songs into the fade kicked butt). I began exploring what else was out there, and also digging into the past to see where this had come from. I also found some freedom writing country songs, as it seemed it was OK to write plain-spoken lyrics. This was the background music for me during much of the 80s, until I began discovering female singer/songwriters in the late 80s (Kate Bush) and 90s (Sarah McLachlan, Paula Cole, Heather Nova, Patti Rothberg, Lucinda Williams, Sara Hickman, Amy Rigby - OK, stop!). So when Nashville did a massive housecleaning, and suddenly my favorite artists like Dolly Parton and Emmy Lou Harris and Conway Twitty and Loretta Lynn and George Jones and Tammy Wynette and Don Williams and Roseanne Cash and Tom T. Hall couldn't get airplay any more, I lost interest. Even though radio devised the Classic Country format to accommodate them, I had moved on. Always being mindful of course, because you never know, but moving on.

I never played so much country in my life before I came down here early this century. It dawned on me that while this may be a pretty hip tourist town, an international vacation destination and all that, it still is in The South and a lot of people driving down for their vacations are from The South, and like their country music. So there is a lot of that well-shoot-boy-you-play-mandolin-you-must-play-country-music attitude, and well, who am I to say it ain't so, especially if you're gonna pay me? :whistling: I did have a little bluegrass band in college, played some country in an all-original mostly blues band in the 80s, some western swing (Bob Wills, Milton Brown, and Hank Williams) in a swing/string band also in the 80s, but somehow this became my bread-and-butter gigs here for a while, in two duos, the second of which became a band for a while. I hadn't been listening to country radio much, but my partner in this second act thought he was the new Kenny Chesney and wanted to play current country, so I watched CMT and listened some to the three country stations from the mainland. He had written some pretty good songs, too, and we wrote a few together, which was pretty cool, in a Caribbean-country hybrid. Too bad his ego (and double-dealing) got in the way; could have been something. But other than that, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to country any more. I watch the awards shows, see people on TV, keep an eye and ear out because you never know when someone is going to come along who will do it for you, but other than occasional exceptions, we go our separate ways. It's an amicable separation - we don't need or miss each other much.

My current band, The Real Malloys, (https://www.facebook.com/therealmalloys) is more or less Americana, and we play a lot of songs from Texas singer/songwriters, which have some country leanings. We have a few bluegrass standards in our repertoire ("Salty Dog," "Blue Moon Of Kentucky," "Rocky Top") because they will get requested, so it's smart to be ready, and I do a passable job with them (and the singer/guitarist/front man likes to give me the chance to strut my stuff), but it's not my main focus, never has been. I got turned on to music years before I picked up an instrument (and then it was the bass first; that brief flirtation with guitar didn't stick), so it was more a matter of learning how to play the music I liked on the instrument I could play it on than the other way around. Besides, I didn't grow up in a bluegrass-rich environment. I went to Winterhawk every year for several years for a weekend of total immersion, and would do some picking at parties and jams throughout the rest of the year, but I have always been interested in the possibilities of the mandolin beyond the commonly accepted expectations. :mandosmiley:

I'm sorry - what was the question? (Man, that was some strong coffee!) Oh yeah - no. ;) Or maybe, "not so much," or about the same.

BTW, Mark - I first came down here in 1988, had a rock/blues band that broke up at the end of season, then I drifted back northward and onward. But through the 90s I would save up my vacation time and come down here for Christmas/New Year's whenever I could. I remember one time driving through North Carolina, every station on the dial was playing country music! never mind different styles of country - I couldn't find anything else at all! Pretty funny now, but it was kind of cheesing me off at the time. Well, I did have to chuckle, too.

[catmandu2]

I wish someone would explain to me how/why it is that music was always better back then than it is now.

Of course there are many factors, but the short answer to the basic question of "why is there ever increasing 'interest' (popularity) in formulaic music?":

Because the industry (what most people apparently respond to) is driven by money, not aesthetic value, and most people, apparently, do not have a vested interest in music enough to differentiate between what is genuine and what is market driven.

[Geordie]

I wish someone would explain to me how/why it is that music was always better back then than it is now. Because since the invention of the recording machine the attitude has changed from, "How can we write a song that speaks to peoples' lives?" to ,"How can we write a song that will climb the charts and make some money?". Popular music has lost its soul.

[journeybear]

Wow! Are you guys cynical or am I still too starry-eyed? I may have seen too many Hollywood rags-to-riches movies, but I keep thinking there must be a way for good music (or at least, music I like) to get played on the radio. I prefer to believe that enough people want to hear good music that there is a place for it. Maybe that's satellite radio or some other not-so-free method. Maybe it just means more people have to buy the kind of music we like. After all, PDs listen to MDs who listen to accountants who monitor sales (something like that). Sure, us poor folks are down the food chain, but what can you do?

You know, I know I can listen to WFUV and WPKN and a bunch of other good radio staions on line, but I never do, and somehow it just isn't the same. And anyway, I still want the artists I like to get played on the (real) radio somehow.

[catmandu2]

Wow! Are you guys cynical or am I still too starry-eyed? I may have seen too many Hollywood rags-to-riches movies, but I keep thinking there must be a way for good music (or at least, music I like) to get played on the radio. I prefer to believe that enough people want to hear good music that there is a place for it. Maybe that's satellite radio or some other not-so-free method. Maybe it just means more people have to buy the kind of music we like. After all, PDs listen to MDs who listen to accountants who monitor sales (something like that). Sure, us poor folks are down the food chain, but what can you do?

You know, I know I can listen to WFUV and WPKN and a bunch of other good radio staions on line, but I never do, and somehow it just isn't the same. And anyway, I still want the artists I like to get played on the (real) radio somehow.

I provided a brief explanation for you, as requested. You are talking about broad issues--the sociology of music. Sociology examines trends; there are always events that contradict these trends.

The purpose of commercial radio is to sell you something. There is also (thank god) still non-commercial, or community radio available with other agendae.

[coletrickle]

There are a lot of great young musicians out there creating classic country sounds with new songs. While these musicians don't get air time on popular radio or other media outlets, they are still out there writing new songs and making interesting new music that plays up the best of traditional country sounds. For example, check out Zoe Muth and the Lost Highrollers, a singer songwriter from Seattle backed by a talented band. She has a classic country sound, coupled with some really great songs. Her band even has a mandolin in a prominate role! Here is an example:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5LnLX9Yd6g

This was shot at the Black Swamp Arts Festival this past September on a "mostly" acoustic street stage that I happen to run...so the sound is OK but not perfect (the guitarist is actually playing my guitar since he didn't bring an acoustic on tour). But, the song is really great and the playing and singing is perfect. It has that classic country sound. I guess my point is, you can find modern country musicians making great original music, but it is off the charts and requires some digging. Check out the Signature Sounds record label for starters. They have a lot of great musicians in the country vain.

[catmandu2]

I like Martha Scanlon myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXAjNxYY7AM&feature=related

[journeybear]

Seems like there is always good music being made somewhere, off the beaten track; it just doesn't get airplay like it used to. Maybe it comes down to someone playing trad making a big splash somehow and catching on with the general public. Other people working in a similar style latch on and just as a rising tide lifts all boats, everyone hitching their wagon to that star does better as a result. Maybe someone could ask Taylor Swift to go more trad, see what happens. ;)

[catmandu2]

Seems like there is always good music being made somewhere, off the beaten track;

Quite. The world yields tremendous reward off the beaten track

The beaten track, not so much

[Mike Bunting]

I like Martha Scanlon myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXAjNxYY7AM&feature=related
Yes, she's great. There is more good music available now than I've ever had the ability to have access to than ever before. Unfortunately it is not on commercial radio.

[journeybear]

Quite. The world yields tremendous reward off the beaten track

The beaten track, not so much

Never thought how the track must feel - all that beating. Probably wishes more people would take the fork in the road. Like Yogi said. ;)

[allenhopkins]

Generalizations "generally" make me uncomfortable. There are good singers in the "country" genre, and I sure have enjoyed Emmylou Harris, Willie Nelson, Buck Owens, the Dixie Chicks, Alison Krause, Ricky Skaggs both country and bluegrass, and others going back to Patsy (not "Pasty") Cline, Cowboy Copas, Roy Acuff, Skeeter Davis, Loretta Lynn, George Jones, Johnny Cash, and others. How 'bout Marty Robbins?

I think bluegrass started as a sub-genre of hillbilly music, along with Western swing, "country crooning," and Chet Atkins-produced "Nashville Sound" of the 1960's that made a lot of country, sound like non-rock '50's pop -- Connie Francis/Bobby Darin style, you know. Now we have a dominant "country" sound that imitates "classic rock" more than anything, and that's definitely not my cup of tea.

But applauding or dismissing entire styles of music is really not seeing the individual trees in the forest. "Alt country" like Uncle Tupelo, Wilco, Sun Volt etc. can be really interesting music. I think the real problem is taking our view of the variety of country music, by listening to country radio, which seems to emphasize the less desirable aspects of the genre, at least IMHO.

And hey, how about Taylor Swift? Teen-age country (well, she's 21 now)? Throwing whole styles of music under the bus, because in this particular era, their dominant sound ain't to our likin', goes a bit far. Now, where's my Louvin Brothers CD...?

[Cullowheekid]

Hank III~:>

[Mandolin Mick]

I stopped listening to the radio in 1980 and have never regretted it. When I'm within earshot of a radio, like at the depot where I load my bread truck, it confirms that I made the right choice. :(

I pretty much listen to Classic Bluegrass and mandolin instrumentalists. :mandosmiley:

[Willie Poole]

When she was just a teen-ager I really enjoyed Lee-Ann Rimes and her selection of songs, man could she sing, but the last time I heard her it was as far from country as one can get, I assume as one gets popular and "has it made" they can branch out to any and all kinds of music to make a living....I always felt that some of the country stars seemed to record a song which had the old country sound and as soon as they got a little noterity they branched out to the more modern country sound, Garth Brooks, Alan Jackson comes to mind....George Strait to a certain extent has kept his music more country then most of them....Randy Travis is another one that still has the old country sound on most songs....

Willie

[tashook]

The genre to pay attention to is "Americana". Today that's where you'll find 3 chords and the truth. After watching the recent CMA awards I figured out what it stood for: Country my *ss! If you want a sample of what Americana is check out the clip of the Americana Music Awards on Austin City Limits at PBS.org. I was fortunate enough to attend the show at the Ryman in Nashville the last two consecutive years.

[journeybear]

You guys extolling the virtues of Americana and/or alt-country are right on the money. Along with the ones Allen mentioned, Lucinda Williams (toward the rock end) and Robert Plant's Band Of Joy offer rewarding listening. My lead singer/guitarist comes up with some great songs, I have no idea how. I don't know if they are considered Americana or are just singer/songwriters from Texas and Oklahoma (there may be a difference ;) ) but these are James McMurtry, Hayes Carll, Justin Townes Earle (and his dad), Ray Wylie Hubbard, Robert Earl Keen, Todd Snider, Will Kimbrough, I'm sure there are others.

[Mike Bunting]

and Charlie Robison too.

[Bradley]

I love any music that is well done, and sang with the heart versus some flashy lights and a dance team behind the singer

If you listen to the maintream country stations they never ever play any songs more than 2 years old and its usually between 8-10 of the same artists. Being a Bgrass player I will say the first thing that turns me off is the overplayed Drums and distorted guitar....When I hear that the channel is turned. In todays country scene, there are plenty of great country players and singers but you will have to dig past standard radio to get them. Vince gills new CD is great...He can break 3 fingers and still out play most of the top 10 on public radio. People like LeeAnn Womack, Patty Loveless, Alan Jackson, Allison Moorer etc are still keeping it country.

I will also say that Being 44 years old, and playing for about 30 years I never really understood the stance that the old timers had and at times I felt they limited Bluegrass by their "Old School" ways. But now I see a movement away from those standards and it all seems to be about how many notes can be played versus playing with heart. Maybe we should look at the path that our music is on, and grab a hold of the wheel before its "how commercial bluegrass "is in a future topic

[journeybear]

People who like modern country music, even if it leans toward pop music or 80s rock, are gonna just love this, the closing number from last night's Grammy nominations concert show. Yes, Lady Gaga and Sugarland. (Gaga is still wearing her eye makeup from her zombie/ghoul show-opening number, ICYWW.) Sorry, no MC, as Kristian is playing guitar. Too bad; I would like at least one Gaga-mando connection.

kwlIdI_nr2E

[allenhopkins]

Well, I like Lady Gaga, and I guess Sugarland's a major band, but just whatthehell has that song got to do with country music? If someone didn't tell me that Sugarland played "country music," I'd be clueless (and may well be anyway).

I can't find one single characteristic -- style, instrumentation, theme, vocal presentation, costume, rhythm, hair styling -- that suggests "country" to me. Doesn't make it a bad song (other things make it a bad song), but country...?

[doc holiday]

I want a telecaster that matches Lady Gaga's make-up too ;)

[Nick Triesch]

I'm old but I sure like the Zack Brown Band! How bout Miranda Lambert? Holy smokes! She can sing. Then there is Lady Antebellum. Wow! They sing so tight. I think Country has just changed. For the better. Sure a lot of it is just pop but there is some real talent. The guitar work in todays bands if far better than 50 years ago. No one can touch Brad Paisley. He is super clean.

[Nick Triesch]

Taylor must be doing something right. She is 21 and wins everything. She has a knack to write from the heart and has catchy tunes. At her young age she earned 55 million last year alone. Kids flock to see her. From all over the world. And she plays a Taylor guitar from San Diego! I love her. Country just has changed thank God! I remember when I was a kid (I'm 61) Sometimes early on Sunday morning some Country and Western would come on TV. I remember these guys in fancy suits with cowboy hats playing terrible songs. Sounded like a cat with it's tail under a rocking chair! It has just evolved. Nick

[journeybear]

Quite right, Allen - nothing too very country about this. In fact, the first half of the verses sounds reminiscent of 4 Non Blondes' "What's Going On." I assume this is one of Lady Gaga's songs. I have no idea who thought it was a good idea to put together this collaboration, though I have a feeling it was some way to get Gaga on stage twice. The high point of this - if you want to call it that - is Gaga and Jen, neither known for shyness, trying to outdo the other's showboating. That is a Sisyphean task for anyone going up against Gaga. I feel bad for Kristian, out in left field but also right at center stage. Awkward. BTW, the opening number by Gaga was spectacular - or spook-tacular - if you like those kinds of extravaganzas, but that is something those interested will have to seek out for themselves.

I was hanging in there to see what Sugarland was going to do, and got kind of blindsided by this. The other performance of interest here is from The Band Perry. They seemed a bit adrift, out of their element, or just unsure what to do at a pop-oriented event. Hope they sort out what they want to do with themselves; I still think they have potential, just have to put it together.


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Sorry, gotta run. Jen is hosting this year's CMA Country Christmas special. Now that's country! :grin:

[coletrickle]

Taylor must be doing something right. She is 21 and wins everything. She has a knack to write from the heart and has catchy tunes. At her young age she earned 55 million last year alone. Kids flock to see her. From all over the world. And she plays a Taylor guitar from San Diego! I love her. Country just has changed thank God! I remember when I was a kid (I'm 61) Sometimes early on Sunday morning some Country and Western would come on TV. I remember these guys in fancy suits with cowboy hats playing terrible songs. Sounded like a cat with it's tail under a rocking chair! It has just evolved. Nick

I'm not sure I agree with you about most of this, other than the facts that she is wildly popular and has made a ton of money. I'm also not sure that her naked voice is nearly as good as it sounds on recordings or even through a microphone. I'm no insider, but I have heard many people who are or have been inside the industry talk about the studio magic that takes average singers and makes them great. I think she has certainly done a good job of working the industry to her advantage, hence the awards and so on. Good for her. I'll take the fancy suits and cowboy hats any day...

[allenhopkins]

...The other performance of interest here is from The Band Perry. They seemed a bit adrift, out of their element, or just unsure what to do at a pop-oriented event. Hope they sort out what they want to do with themselves; I still think they have potential, just have to put it together...

1. Ha! Capo on the mandolin! That low drone you hear is Bill Monroe rotating like a spindizzy* in his grave...

2. I always hoped someone would do a bluegrass version of Petty's Free Fallin'. (Maybe someone has, I dunno.) The Band Perry sticks in a verse and chorus, anyway.

* James Blish reference

[jaycat]

I haven't followed this entire thread, so I don't know if anyone has mentioned Gary Stewart. He was the last real country singer to be worth a tinker's dam.

. . . unless you count Ryan Adams . . .

[sarai]

"Contemporary Country?"
By that you would mean God-awful moronic commercial pop music dumbed down for the barely-literate masses?
This is hte kind of country I do not care for anymore. There have been a few who's voices and talent I enjoy but really when they do stuff that is more acoustic which brings me to this point....


I enjoy country music that is straight up acoustic - no drums.


There's some real talent playing country music today, but often it's hidden behind a commercial veneer.
This is very true which is another reflection of the first point I made. I like some of the newer artists when they do stripped down acoustic versions without all the crap. Eden's Edge for example is actually really good.
I agree with this statement

And I do like old time country but its because the songs are timeless and they translate into my acoustic playing style very well. I wouldn't sit around listen to most of them all day though, I listen, learn, and then play them.

[Marty Henrickson]

I haven't followed this entire thread, so I don't know if anyone has mentioned Gary Stewart. He was the last real country singer to be worth a tinker's dam.

. . . unless you count Ryan Adams . . .

Two words: Gillian Welch. I know she's not what most people would call "country" these days, but she's more country than what most people would ll "country", even if she was born in New York City!

[Turnip Mountain Picker]

Hank III~:>

Amen!!!

[Turnip Mountain Picker]

I dont think its that I dont like modern country as much as there is never enough good new county out there to turn the station to "The Highway'" on XM and leave it. If you listen to Zach Browns CD's he has several good tunes (that will never be played much on the radio) Maranda Lambert, its hard to say she dont sing from the soul in a song like this old house (and others). Alen Jackson has had some fluf in his career but also some of my favorite songs are his, Where Were You has to bring a tear to your eye. What I'm glad to see is that after 40 years the split in country is comming back together a little. Dirks Bently gave a pretty good effort on Up On th Ridge. And the rumor is both Zack Brown and Brad Paisley are working up blue grass music.

Remember the Grand Old Opry started with hillbilly music.

But I would be surprised to see Carey Underware do any bluegrass.

[Charlieshafer]

My current favorite is Nora Jane Struthers with Bearfoot (also on her own from time to time. Unfortunately, they get lumped in the "Americana" category and thus limited airplay, but here's a cut I like, once you get past the rather pastoral beginning...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHbJZK9zFIQ

[Bill Baldridge]

I don't begrudge anyone making money selling music, and the big money is in contemporary country, but none of the money spent is mine.

[Gerry Hastie]

To me there's only two kinds of music - that that I like and that that I don't. I like some of the artists mentioned and some I don't. There has been mention of over-produced, commercial 'country music' that sounds formulaic. To my ears there's a lot of contemporary bluegrass that sounds like that to me too. Maybe it's not about genre but the spirit in which something is created that will speak to them whether they like it or not. Thankfully in this world of multiplicity and multiculturalism that there is something for everyone.

[Turnip Mountain Picker]

I thought about this over the weekend for a second round reply. I see enough bluegrass shows and festivals and am constantly talking about music with friends and people I meet and from what I see (not necessarily people on Mando Café) just about everybody who likes bluegrass likes country. And a good many who like country like bluegrass. To many they are really the same thing. The people who like kick A@#$ County like the kick a@#$ bluegrass, the people who like slower country like the same kind of bluegrass. I know when you get into real Bluegrass Country from like GA, TN, SC, NC, KY just about everybody who likes bluegrass likes country.

[Marty Henrickson]

Would that be real country, or the overproduced pop-with-a-Southern-accent that Nashville markets as country?