Gibson Army Navy

[JeffD]

I have a part interest in a sheraton brown Gibson Army Navy pancake style mandolin. It was found in an antique shop in what looked like very bad shape, but for not a lot of money has been restored. It has the original tuners, bridge and pick guard, which I think might be tortois shell.

Couple, well three questions:

How does one go about finding the age of this thing. There is no serial number as such on the label. The label is circular, and says Army & Navy Special and under that the label has been torn away.

I have heard Army Navy were made 1915 to 1918, and I have heard 1918 to 1922. Is there a way of knowing what exact year.

Inside towards the top, the number 207 or possibly 1207 is printed in faded black ink.


Second question

This one is missing a tail piece cover. I have seen pictures of them with the clam shaped cover and with the cloud shaped cover. Which cover would be the way that it originally came into the world?

Third question

What kind of case would this have come in? The case it was found in is an ill fitting chipboard case.

OK, a fourth question.

I noticed that this doesn't have a strap button. Did they originally not have a strap button? or perhaps this one has a reaplacement tail piece covering up the hole.


We haven't decided what we are going to do with it. My vote is to buy out the other partner and take her home and play the potatoes out of it, but there are other options.


Its a beauty.

[Vernon Hughes]

Not sure about the exact years,WW1 era though..My understanding was it was only sold on base to soldiers..Should have a cloud cover and the original tailpiece has a slot that a leather shoelace type strap will fit through..chipboard original case..I've had a couple,the last one was a little cannon!

[8ch(pl)]

They were preceded by a similar but better appointed mandolin called the Alrite, which was made in 1917 only. You can find a couple of these for sale in Elderley Instruments' ads. With the entry of the US into World War , that same year, Gibson made it plainer and sold it as a Serviceman's Mandolin called the Army and Navy Model.

The Alrite had 2 tonebars running on each side of the Round soundhole. The Army Navy had traverse braces. I know of one Alrite that had some top warpage, but I don't know if this was from neglect or is an inherent problem with the top bracing. That instrument had X bracing installed by a local Luthier and was a marvelous sounding instrument. He was able to restore the original top. I wish I had been able to afford to buy it.

There are more Army-Navy Gibsons around than there are Alrites, they were made until about 1922 or 1923.

[Joe Spann]

Hello JeffD,

My name is Joe Spann and I'm the author of a new book "Spann's Guide to Gibson 1902-1941" in which I try to address some of the types of questions you are asking. The ink-stamped number which you located inside your Army-Navy model should be a Factory Order Number (FON). However, in context with other such FON's from this production period it actually makes no sense as such. I've sometimes wondered if the Army-Navy models were manufactured by Gibson under a seperate accounting system, thus requiring a seperate series of FON's.

Anyway, we can state with authority that the Alright model and the Army-Navy model which followed it were definitely produced in 1917, 1918 and 1920. There is hard evidence to back that up. I hope this helps you.

Joe

[JeffD]

Joe its a shame there isn't a proper serial number on this.

To the left of the Factory Order Number there is a sort of a water stain or smudge. An expert with a loop and bright light might be able to pull the capital letter G or S out of it, but not me.

I was shocked at how nice it is compared to how it was found. The antique store let it go cheap because it looked horrid, with the face all separated and curling up violently at the bottom. But we took a chance on it. Not only was the repair possible, it was apparently easy. You luthiers are re-animators. The instrument is a boomer now.

With its cool history I want to just keep it and jam out with it. But its a partnertship, and we might hold it till the musical instrument market improves and then sell it. I vote no, but I am the only player in the partnership.

[MandoSquirrel]

I vote for the buy out!

[michaelpthompson]

If you can come up with the money your partner(s) want, you should buy it and play it. First, you clearly have a yearning to play this thing, and second, it's a musical instrument, not a painting. Paintings were made to be looked at, musical instruments were created to make music.

[Jim Garber]

Army-Navys are budget mandolins. I don't know how much the partnership has is in but I highly doubt you will make a serious killing unless you wait until the next boom in the economy could be 10 years from now. I also think you should buy your partner out. Hey, you are an OT player... that would be a cool one for a jam, I would imagine.

[8ch(pl)]

I was in a store when a really nice Army Navy was sold for $1800. I thought it was a bit high, I think the Elderley Alrites are priced around $1300, they should probably be more than a similar condition Army Navy.

I bow to Joe Spanns information as to the years of Army Navy production. I still maintain that they out number the Alrites available today.

I have played a few Army Navy mandolins and in my opinion they are good sounding instruments. That X braced Alrite was probably better than any Army Navy that I played, but they weren't side by side.

[8ch(pl)]

I looked at the Elderley ads after my last posting, they have only one Alrite, for $1050, They have an Army Navy for , I think $550.

They sold the other Alrite, but that's what they are in business for.

[Vernon Hughes]

I just sold a nice army navy for 650.00 and was glad to get that..

[JLeather]

Am I the only one who was hoping for before/after pics of this resurrected mando?

[JeffD]

I have some pics, before and after. I hesitate only because I want to make sure what we are going to do with it before I post them.

No plan to make a killing. From what I see we are likely to get what we have into it plus a little more. That is good enough.


The main fun here is seeing what looks to the casual and not so casual observer as a lost cause become a darling wee beastie, and then to get it into the hands of someone who appreciates it.

Even if those hands are mine. :)