New Member - Aspiring Mandolin Player

[guitarpath]

This is my first post here. I have lurked a bit and just recently joined this fine forum.

I have played guitar for over 20 years, having devoted myself to bluegrass flatpicking the past five years. I have long wanted to learn to play the mandolin and am eager to take it up.

So, my question is, where should I start? I don't know a lot about mandolin construction/detailed specs. My only requirements for a mandolin are 1) I want something good to decent; and 2) I am interested in an F5-style bluegrass mandolin.

I appreciate any advice you may have regarding buying a good mandolin to learn the basics on. Any advice on good instructional material for a beginner with a guitar background would likewise be very much appreciated.

[Charlieshafer]

Well, welcome to the forum. There are a million threads you can search for that go over these things, but the first questions you'll be asked are "what's the price range?" and "why "F" style?" For the former, most everyone here will recommend Loars, Eastmans and Kentuckys. They're all great for the money, just an issue of personal preference.

For the second, you'll get a bunch of responses that will all tell you that you'll get more mandolin for the money of you go with an "A" style. The reason for this is because it's true. The scroll adds labor, but nothing to the tone. The side question is oval hole or f holes, and for a more bluegrassy sound, you'll want the f holes. I prefer ovals myself, but that's again a personal preference. A well-made A will outperform a well-made F if the price is the same, all things being equal. The builder or factory can put more money into higher quality woods and more attention to detail without spending time on the scroll, a very labor-intensive strap hanger. If image is the issue, look no further than Tim O'Brien, who has always played "A" styles.

Instructional materials are many. I like the Mike Marshall DVD's, and a video may be more helpful than just a bunch of books as the pick grip is different, the movement of your right wrist/arm are different (or should be) and the way your fingers approach the fingerboard are slightly different as well.

Good luck, read lots of posts, search the threads already appearing under this topic, and you'll be well on your way.

[guitarpath]

Thank you, Charlie. My price range is fairly wide. I'd be willing to go up to 4k or so for the right mandolin (new or used). The issue for me is, as someone who doesn't play the instrument yet, I don't know what the right mandolin may be for me. It is for this reason that I am considering a good Pac-Rim mandolin like The Loar 600. I figure that I can learn the basics on that, learn my likes and dislikes in a mandolin, and then search for a "better" American-made mandolin like a Weber, Ratliff, Collings, etc.

Regarding the Loar 600, does anyone think upgrading the bridge (to a CA bridge, for example) is worthwhile?

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[Folkmusician.com]

Regarding the Loar 600, does anyone think upgrading the bridge (to a CA bridge, for example) is worthwhile?


Most all of the Pac-Rim mandolins will benefit from a bridge upgrade. The Loar tends to be an especially good candidate due to the quality of the mandolin and the "lack" of quality of the bridge. The biggest improvement comes from fitting the bridge correctly and doing some mandolin specific tuning. In this case it is nice to start with a great blank (the CA bridge). The CA bridge is a much better part, but it is really going to come down to the person fitting it just as much if not more so than the bridge.

[Charlieshafer]

Your approach makes perfect sense. Grab a Loar or Kentucky or Eastman, don't spend too much, and just play the heck out of it. After a month or so, then try to get physical fingers on a bunch of things like Webers (I have a couple and like them a lot) Collings, and gosh, a bunch of pre-owned stuff like you see in the classifieds can be great. Gibsons can be great in this price range...almost too many really nice possibilities to mention in one shot. The key is that you'll get experience on the Loar, and then when you start playing the better ones you'll be able to really feel the difference. They all have different feels, sound, personalities, etc. You'll hear generalizations like "Collings are bright" or "Webers are deeper and fuller sounding" or, well, you get the idea. The key is that in that price range you'll be able to get some really nice instruments, and like guitars, they're all different, and everyone will have suggestions and opinions, but the only one that matters is yours. With just a short bit of playing, you'll be able to get a handle on what you like in no time.

In the meantime, cruise the classifieds to get an idea of what some used quality instruments are fetching. Cruise the sponsor's websites on the homepage and you'll quickly get an idea of pricing and general hierarchy.

Best bet, is after a month or so on the Loar, you'll be good enough to let people hand you their's for a quick trial. Nothing beats playing a lot of different ones, just like guitars. Let people on the cafe know where you are located, and maybe someone here will guide you to some really good local stores.

Upgrading a Loar can help, but there's no way any amount of hot-rodding will bring it close to anything in the 4k range. I'd just use the Loar as-is, as long as the setup is good, and not spend too much time worrying about it, as you'll soon be lusting after something much better.

[Rodney Riley]

Got my loaner Fender mando back. Was out for 2 years this time. (3rd person it's been loaned to.) No scratches, looks great. But the bridge was split on the E-string side. ( don't know if it happened from being strung up and in the case for most of the two years or was damaged during a move to a new house. The family has no idea it was split. And I ain't a gonna tell 'em. It's wood, it can happen.) Had our local music store install a CA bridge and a tune-up. I know I know... for a Fender it sounded pretty good, and the set-up made it real easy to play. Last night I loaned it out to another teen-ager. I know it will be played a lot this time. :) He was playin better than me in less than 5 minutes. :crying: Not sure if the bridge made that much difference because it wouldn't play. So I have no before and after comparison. But it sure sounded like a mandolin to me.
Oh, and a +++ for the Cumberland Acoustic bridge.

[guitarpath]

Thanks again for the feedback.

Here is another question: The Loar 600 versus 700?

I was leaning towards the 600 because it has tonebars (which the 700 apparently lacks).

Again, any thoughts are much appreciated.

[Charlieshafer]

Play 'em. Specs on pac-rim instruments are greatly overrated, in my opinion. Eastmans are a great example. They vary considerably, some sound fantastic, others simply ordinary, and that's the same model, shipped to the same store, received the same day. It's way too easy to get caught up on do-dads, and miss the fact that one got lucky and has great wood, and the other, all tricked-out, still sounds like a pig. Think big picture; a few extra bucks here will mean little when you see what those few extra bucks will get you when you're getting your keeper mandolin.

[Tim13]

Thanks again for the feedback.

Here is another question: The Loar 600 versus 700?

I was leaning towards the 600 because it has tonebars (which the 700 apparently lacks).

Again, any thoughts are much appreciated.

I'm not a player myself, but was in the market recently for a beginner mandolin. I directly compared side by side, the 600 and 700. Being a banjo picker, I only care about what it sounds like infront of the instrument, and the 600's tone was nicer to me than the 700. It was more well rounded sound wise from treble to base. The 700 sounded a little tubby to me. The 600 was the winner strictly on tone.

Tim

[Markus]

Play 'em. Specs on pac-rim instruments are greatly overrated, in my opinion. Eastmans are a great example. They vary considerably, some sound fantastic, others simply ordinary, and that's the same model, shipped to the same store, received the same day. It's way too easy to get caught up on do-dads, and miss the fact that one got lucky and has great wood, and the other, all tricked-out, still sounds like a pig. Think big picture; a few extra bucks here will mean little when you see what those few extra bucks will get you when you're getting your keeper mandolin.

This is really great advice that lines up with my experience.

When I went shopping for mine, judging by sound I would have bought the Eastman 505 vs the 815 I played it against. The 815 looked like a way better mandolin, but that's not what my hands and ears said. [A style plain vs. F style with binding and bling - big price difference too]. And then I started trying everything and ended up with another brand entirely. Months later, I went in and tried their newest 815 and was impressed ... if THAT ONE had been there when I went looking, I might have chosen it instead of taking a sharp turn from F-styles and getting the Breedlove I'm very happy with.

I would be tempted to find the best mandolin shop within a few hours [or on your next business trip] and go play as many as you can. There can be a lot of variance, especially with neck feel, that width at nut cannot tell you. Maybe it's not possible, but it's worth looking into ... I've found that my folks retired not far away from The Mandolin Store, I only can get there every year or two, but if I was looking to buy another mandolin I'd schedule a visit before buying.

Given you may be upgrading in the future, I would also possibly consider a used instrument. You can get a year or so of play on it and resell for just about zero loss ... use that money for the upgrade [or to get your nicer mandolin new].

[guitarpath]

I ordered a new Loar 600 today from Robert's shop. I am really excited to learn on it.

Thanks to all for your for your helpful advice.

[joni24]

I can speak to the second part of your question: good instructional material for a beginner (with a guitar background). I highly recommend Mike Marshall's mandolin classes in the Academy of Bluegrass http://www.academyofbluegrass.com/ This online course is amazing, for any level of player. There are over 100 video classes that Mike put together, ranging from beginner to expert. Plus you get personalized feedback from Mike himself each time you submit a video of yourself playing or asking any questions. The price is very reasonable; max is $30/month if you sign up for 3 months, and it goes down from there depending upon how much you want to pay up front. I joined on a 3 month trial membership, and love it so much I just signed up for another 6 months. It really fastpath'd my learning, compared to how long it took me to get to a comparable level on guitar. Good luck!

[guitarpath]

Thank you, Joni. I will definitely check that out. I am in Philly (not exactly a bluegrass mandolin hotbed), so online lessons like this is a very good option.