Playability #1 concern.

[cedarhaus]

I'm new to this forum. I have played professionally for many years. Now retired. I played Guitar and base. Have very modest skills on piano. Iwant to learn to play mandolin for my own enjoyment. "A" vs "F" not a concern. Volume not so much. Tone of course but all secondary to playability. I have toughened my fingers on a low end whose neck was made by a sadist. I would like some advice on choosing a better mandolin in range of $500 to $1500. What is the value or lack of in a radius style fingerboard?
:mandosmiley:

[Steve Ostrander]

The radius is not as important as a good set up, IMHO. I have both radius and flat in my stable and I can go back and forth, no problem. I would place sound (volume + tone) at the top of the list, with playability next, and aesthetics last. In other words, I don't care what a mandolin looks like, as long as it sounds good and plays good.

In the $ range you stated, I would look for a used Collings MT (approx. $1500) or a new Kentucky km900 (approx. $900) I have both and they are very good. Actually, I would go for the km900 and save some $$.

[Brent Hutto]

I do not consider radius on the fingerboard as big a difference as song folks seem to find it. My "main" mandolin (i.e. the nice handbuilt one I play every day) has a fairly noticeable radius. My "other" mandolin, an moderately priced Eastman, is either totally flat or very close to it. Given that their fretboard width is quite different, that makes far more of an influence than flat-vs-radius.

On the less-expensive factory brands it's kind of a matter of degree anyway. I used to have a "The Loar" which is supposedly radiused and my buddy Lou had a Kentucky, supposedly flat (or was it vice versa). Anyway, it happened that the "radiused" one was a little flatter than it was supposed to be and the "flat" one has edges that were rolled a bit. So they were identical as far as me or Lou could tell.

Overall I would rate the "Big Three" Chinese-built brands in terms of comfort and playability "The Loar", then Kentucky, then Eastman. That's for my fingers and my playing style. Mostly because the first two have jumbo-ish frets and the Eastman's are only slightly bigger than tiny vintage frets used to be. That's also the descending order of fretboard width but they're actually only slightly wider or narrower than each other.

I really like my Eastman oval hole but if "The Loar" made an oval model I would have bought that instead. They just make a neck that really suits my hand. The tradeoff is that the little trick of flattening out a finger to catch, say, both A strings and both D strings at once is definitely easier on the Eastman. Narrow frets or not. That little bit closer string spacing just makes that trick no trick at all to do, I double-fret like that without even thinking about it. On my much wider (like 1-1/4" at the nut) Mike Black A-5 it takes a little planning and positioning in advance to catch those cleanly.

So if jumbo frets are appealing, one of "The Loar" models are about as good as it gets for well under $1,000 bought new. In the Kentucky range, their top of the line A-model can be had in your price range and a used KM-900 or even a used F-style KM-1000 are attractive. I prefer "The Loar" myself, especially the models with no tone bars (violin-type graduations).

That said, if you're not put off by smaller frets I love the Eastman line. Better fit-and-finish than the other Chinese brands, very trim and comfortable proportions and there are certainly advantages to getting around that smaller neck when it comes to left-hand fingering. They're usually a few dollars more than a similar "The Loar" or Kentucky but I think the value for money is there.

[fatt-dad]

I could sell you my most playable instrument and you may find it un-playable. You see, I know I have a heavy hand, so too low action and I'll buzz (i.e., hate the sound). If you are starting out, the most important "setup" item is the action at the nut and that action needs to be established for the strings you plan on using. Many of the traditional arched top instruments are intended for D'Adderio J-74 string gauges. Now, before I get flamed I realize that some may have arched top instruments with light-gauge strings and some use the heavier J-75s.

If you plan on staying in the mainstream, you'll get a arched top mandolin typically setup for J-74s. You'll just have to get used to those, get a mandolin with a good nut, get any truss rod adjustments that may be needed for reasonably lowish action and you'll have to control the rest. You see the mandolin is nice 'cause you can raise the saddle (bridge) to suit your attack - providing the strings, nut and relief are in synch.

My most-played mandolin that's just so easy to play is my Flatiron 1N "pancake," which has no truss rod, has no adjustable bridge and is designed for light gauge strings. Totally different then most mandolins, but it's what i like (for now - ha).

If you are buying used, you'll have no idea of the setup you'll receive or whether it's what's best for you. If you are buying new, you can purchase from a store that has a real human that's knowledgeable doing setup for what you'd like. Usually, that knowledgable person can help you think through what you're buying. You may pay some tuition, however.

Have fun!

f-d

[Mike Bunting]

For your price range you could get a nice old Gibson A Jr.
http://www.vintagemandolin.com/instruments.html#25gibsonajrrefin76675_fon11654
http://www.vintage-instruments.com/catalogs/mandoidx.htm

[frshwtrbob]

"Volume not so much. Tone of course but all secondary to playability... I would like some advice on choosing a better mandolin in range of $500 to $1500. What is the value or lack of in a radius style fingerboard?"

You should take into consideration the feel (thickness/shape) of the neck. Do you want something that feels like a Collings, a Weber, or a clubby Gibson or thin Gibson? These are the main 'camps' of feel - correct me if I'm wrong.

[mandobassman]

I'll jump in here with my recommendation. Breedlove. I have a 2006 Breedlove Quartz OF. Loud, sweet tone and is by far the most comfortable neck I have ever played. I have done nothing to the set up since I bought it. Frets are slightly larger than normal. Action is perfect (for me anyway). I have a very heavy hand on rhythm and have never had any buzzing. I also don't think the radius is that important. The Breedlove is radiused, but I have played both and don't really have a preference either way. You can get a used OF for under $1000. I got mine on eBay for $975, but I have since seen them there and on Craigslist for as low as $750. I use flatwound strings on it and still have lots of volume. I get compliments on its' tone all of the time.

[Barry Platnick]

Used collings MT, $1400-$1600. Never need another...till the fever hits!

[Big Joe]

Playability is easily adjustable on any mandolin of reasonable quality to begin with. This had nothing to do with price, but rather quality of construction. That removes it from tonal issues, which can also be adjusted to a point. The first thing is to buy a mandolin you like overall and allow that playability can be adjusted properly with a good setup from a mandolin expert. A guitar guru cannot usually do a great mandolin setup It is apples for oranges. A good mandolin setup person can make even a rotten playing instrument wonderfully playable as long as it has the basics to work with. Even then any mandolin can be made to play wonderfully, but cost of repair can exceed cost of the mandolin. Then it is better to just buy a better mandolin to begin with.

In the sub 1000.00 category you can get a very nice mandolin and still pay for a good setup and have a great playing and sounding mandolin. While there are many here who will tell you to do your own setup, you will never get the optimal performance out of it until you have done a lot of them correctly. The odds of that are not real high. You can certainly learn, but if playability is important to you then you should look at having whatever mandolin you do buy have worked over by a good mandolin luthier or buy from a good mandolin luthier that sells mandolins and includes a pro setup as part of the sale. The experience will be much better if you find a mandolin you like that will play and sound its best from day one.

[Markus]

To add to what Joe says regarding setup ... while I may lean towards learning to do my own work there, it's only something I found effective after a great setup got things to it's ideal state.

Until you've seen the best that mandolin can do in terms of setup for you, trying to achieve that [with minimal experience] is unlikely to lead the results an experienced hand will.

Once you've seen what it is ideal ... then an honest analysis will tell you whether you should continue to do your own setup work.

And let's be clear here ... I'm some mando player who is learning this. Big Joe is a professional who knows the ins and outs like I never will, having done this professionally. If you ever question which one of us is right regarding building/setup/wise-advice ... I'll suggest I'm the one you tune out. [The honest analysis I mentioned above regarding one's skills]

[dcoventry]

As the resident Rigel afficienado, I'll put in my $.02:

Buy a Rigel A+ and be happy for the rest of your life. The necks are legendary for their playability, the instrumnet IS loud as a bonus, and they are built incredibly solid. The combination of Red Spruce top and hard Eastern Maple back is about as classic as it comes, too. They have bulit in pick ups, and great tuners. Lastly, they are so cool, folks will be in awe of your very presence. That's a lot of impact for a little instrument.

Search the classifieds here, there is a new one slightly above your range, and/or wait patiently for a bit and a used one will pop up.

[mandodan1960]

Still like the Gibson A9. Frets are a little thin. Check for wear on a used one. Mine had a great sound and was very playable. I would like to have it back but my upgrade to a Weber Yellowstone was a good move so C'est la vie.

P.S You can upgrade to fatter frets when the time comes and you can sell it for a upgrade when the time comes.

[cedarhaus]

I live in a mandolin desert. Its three hours to the nearest music store with an on hand inventory of any size. I'm likely not going to be able to try many different mandolins before I choose one. I have a 1957 Fender Precision base and a 1958 Gibson J160E guitar. I use flat wound strings on both. I have always liked a soft touch. I realize the mandolin is a different animal but I'm trying to get the softest touch I can without totally losing the tone and volume quality. I would try an electric if it still functioned well as an acoustic but that would not be my first choice.:mandosmiley:

[almeriastrings]

There are two issues under the "playability" heading, both very different. One is simply "feel" - this is incredibly subjective, and includes areas such as neck thickness/profile, width, radiused vs flat board, fret type, etc. What you might like, I might not like, and vice versa. The other is setup and involves string height at the 12th, nut height, and so on. There are a lot of variables. You should be able to get any good instrument set up adequately, and after that it is down to "feel" and preference. FWIW, I prefer a radiused board - but I have some nice instruments with flat boards and can get on with those too... but at a push, I prefer radiused. Neck thickness/profile varies hugely.... from really skinny to "baseball bats", just as with guitars/bass's. I'd just advise buying from a knowledgeable specialist dealer who can explain all this, and who will do an exchange if what you get is not what you like. They will also do a proper setup for you - and believe me, mandolins "out of the box" really need it.

[frshwtrbob]

"Neck thickness/profile varies hugely.... from really skinny to "baseball bats", just as with guitars/bass's. I'd just advise buying from a knowledgeable specialist dealer who can explain all this, and who will do an exchange if what you get is not what you like. They will also do a proper setup for you - and believe me, mandolins "out of the box" really need it." almeriastrings

"....if playability is important to you then you should look at having whatever mandolin you do buy have worked over by a good mandolin luthier or buy from a good mandolin luthier that sells mandolins and includes a pro setup as part of the sale. The experience will be much better if you find a mandolin you like that will play and sound its best from day one." Big Joe

both nicley put

[terzinator]

Used collings MT, $1400-$1600. Never need another...till the fever hits!

+1

[frshwtrbob]

FWIW...There's a simply stunning gloss top, sunburst MT w/ a highly figured, one piece back on e-schmay. NFI

[dcoventry]

As the resident Rigel afficienado, I'll put in my $.02:

Buy a Rigel A+ and be happy for the rest of your life. The necks are legendary for their playability, the instrumnet IS loud as a bonus, and they are built incredibly solid. The combination of Red Spruce top and hard Eastern Maple back is about as classic as it comes, too. They have bulit in pick ups, and great tuners. Lastly, they are so cool, folks will be in awe of your very presence. That's a lot of impact for a little instrument.


Search the classifieds here, there is a new one slightly above your range, and/or wait patiently for a bit and a used one will pop up.

+5

[allenhopkins]

I live in a mandolin desert. Its three hours to the nearest music store with an on hand inventory of any size. I'm likely not going to be able to try many different mandolins before I choose one.

Were I contemplating spending $500-1.5K, I would consider a six-hour 'round trip worth it, for the chance to play a variety of instruments.

[Stephen Perry]

I suggest that, if at all possible, you go somewhere to try a wide range of neck shapes. Once you find something that you like, get an excellent custom setup, with the final adjustments done while you are there. For picky customers, I tend to get the strings of each course as close as possible, the frets as level as feasible, and the curvature at the top of the strings at the bridge just right for the player to easily hit each course. For more advanced players, this seems to make a substantial difference. The final adjustments back and forth to both tone and setup really bring things into focus.

[JeffD]

What is the value or lack of in a radius style fingerboard?
:mandosmiley:

I find that a radiused fretboard is a little easier to negotiate because it more naturally follows how my fingers reach for the notes. You may be used to a radiused guitar fretboard so you know what I am getting at. The result is perhaps a little bit more comfort.

The down side, in my experience, is that holding two notes at the same fret with one finger is a tad harder, because you have to push harder to get all four strings down around the curve. These kind of one finger double stops, barre chords, and the like, are a little easier on a flat (un-radiused) fretboard. Just like a flat guitar neck.

But the effect is small really. And I have to accomidate the idiosyncracies of every mandolin I have played, the radius of the neck, or lack, is just another thing in the balance.

Given the choice, I would pick the one which sounds better.

[Tom Haywood]

As a guitar/bass player you are accustomed to playing slightly radiused necks. A flat neck may not feel right, or it might. A lot depends on the angle you are comfortable with your fingers hitting the fretboard. But this is also affected by the width of the neck and the shape of the back of the neck. These vary considerable in mandolins. So does the degree of radius. "The Loar" models that I have played give a good combination of width, shape and radius that feels good to me as a long time guitar player. You might find a used one on the classifieds as a "first mando" to figure out what you like.