Walls of Time

[RobP]

Hey Gang,

Anyone else doing this tune? We pulled it out last night and gave it a go -- may have it added to our set list soon. We started listening the Skaggs version (in B) but then we settled on something more Monroe-like in C with harmony throughout the song.

Fun song to sing and play. Love that flatted 7th chord!


Cheers,

Rob

[Tom C]

Oh yeah. In "B". I basically use the same break Skaggs uses to start the tune off.

[RobP]

I have been hacking apart that break.. will have to transpose it to C.

Rob

[Moose]

Ah! - the "flatted 7th" - us old-timers(!?#) called that an "off-chord"... (didn't we...???). Whatever works. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Michael H Geimer]

I once tried (and failed) to start a BG group with some guys. The mandolin player suggested doing this song. I learned it but couldn't sing it in B, so I suggested our banjo player sing the song. But he didn't have the right 'spikes' to work in that key.

In the end, the mandolin player was so in love with the opening break in B that we dumped the song rather than transpose and write a new break. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

That's really when I knew that group wasn't the best fit for me.

Great song. I've since been afraid to call the tune in any key other than B ... but that's probably a ridiculous hestitation.

- Benig

[luckylarue]

I've done it in G but prefer it in C. My favorite version is from the Live Recordings cd from Smithsonian. Bill introduces it as a "new number that doesn't have a title yet." Great tremelo and just two chords - C and F.

[Chip Booth]

My group is doing it based on the Skaggs version, but the singer couldn't hack it in B so we moved it to B flat. Man was that a drag on the mando. I usually like playing in B flat ok, but the flatted 7th made for a few tricky stretches. Wouldn't you know just about the time I got used to it the singer said 'Hey, I been working on it and I can sing it B now'. So we moved back http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Brian Ray]

I've been playing this tune lately. My favorite version (in C) is Peter Rowan's (with Mike Compton) (http://dasspunk.com/index.php?wl_mode=more&wl_eid=125) from a Station Inn show. I blatently steal from mr. Compton's intro (who obviously stole his from mr. Monroe). As Peter points out, this is a Rowan/Monroe written tune... and a great one at that.

Stealing from the best is our prerogative... nay, our duty. Will somebody please think of the children...

[Spruce]

My favorite version is from a recording of Bill Monroe & the Bluegrass Boys
on WKCR Radio, New York, NY, on 2/4/66...

This recording is a total crack-up, with a very young Pete Wernick stumbling through an interview with Mr. Monroe ("how long do you plan on playing this bluegrass music?"), Lamar Grier, Richard Greene, James Monroe, and Peter Rowan...

They rip into some tunes, too....

1. Midnight On The Stormy Deep
2. All The Good Times Are Gone
3. Richard Greene interview
4. Big Mon
5. Bill Monroe comments
6. The Walls of Time
7. Crossing the Cumberlands
8. James Monroe interview
9. I Saw The Light
10. Bill Monroe interview
11. Peter Rowan interview
12. Down In The Willow Garden
13. Shady Grove
14. Lamar Grier interview (cut)

"The Walls of Time" gets introduced as a tune they plan on recording soon, so it's pretty darn early in it's history...

[Crowder]

The Skaggs intro is really fun to play, but I can't see how it would work in any other key....the open notes and drones are what makes it work for me.

[ethanopia]

Yeah we do Walls of Time in C.

My question is who puts the V chord in it. We started off doing it the Skaggs way with the V chord, but now we do it the more Rowanesque way without the V chord and just hang on the IV.

[johnhgayjr]

We play it in C. #I like the two chord version but the other guys play it using the Skaggs arrangement with 3 chords.

Here's a short clip from a show we did last summer:

http://www.harddrivebluegrass.com/audio/Walls%20of%20time.mp3

John Gay
Memphis

[sailaway]

Hey John-- nice job on the mando on that clip! I have been working on this song, I think i'll move to C and F like some folks suggested.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[hellindc]

Salamander Crossing did it in G, which is where we jam on it. They do a smoother, kind of Allison Krause type version. Skaggs certainly does a much better mando rip, but the Crossing version is a nice variation.

[acousticphd]

The Ricky Skaggs version - and that album - was a sort of a bluegrass "conversion" experience for me. Because I did not hear the Monroe recorded version until later, the Skaggs version is the one that sounds "right" to me.

To my ear, Skaggs does not use a straight V chord though - which is the hall mark of the song; it is a Vm7, though this is almost the same as the flattened seventh. (Isn't it?)

I hear the chord progression on the Skaggs version as:
I - IV - VII ("Take this message ......")
I - IV - Vm7 - I ("I'll wait my time out here on earth love ....."

Is that the way anyone else hears/does it?

[Chip Booth]

yeah Jeff, it's definetly the minor V chord. I don't think he plays the ftattened 7th on the mando but I should relisten to make sure.

[Steve Baker]

New guy checking in here...

I can't believe nobody's brought up Emmylou Harris and the Nash Ramblers' version on "Live at the Ryman". Sam Bush rips it apart! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[RobP]

I beleive the minor 5 chord and the flatted 7 chord to be interchangable.

In C, for example, the minor 5 chord is Gm, while the flatted 7 is Bb. The minor 5 is the relative minor of the flatted 7, and can be used as a substitution.

Rob

[Vincent]

re: the Live at the Ryman version, if you have a woman singer who can sing it in G, there's a whole lot of rocknroll you can squeeze out that key. Of course, that's straying pretty far from the brother duet style origins of the song, but hey. Otherwise, you can really pound on it in C : )

[Christopher Howard-Williams]

We are currently working on this in B. Basically the Skaggs version tho' I remember the Rowan version (but only on vinyl and not on cd, so can't play it - was it in C?). Never heard Monroe do it, but would like to.
We have two mandos on that so I have "invented" a second mando break with tremolo and lots of down strokes.
It's a hard song to sing right, I reckon. I've tried different approaches. At the moment I am trying to "throw" the words out!!

[Peter Hackman]

You mean Rowan's version on Sugar Hill?
To the best of
my recollection it is in C, which is a very good
key to sing the lead (pretty taxing on the tenor, maybe).
The group has a nice rocking beat,
that eightish feel.

[Lefty&French]

It's in C (Rowan & Skaggs singing).

[Christopher Howard-Williams]

Yes that's the one Lefty. I got Rowan to sign the cover at Toulouse in 1982!!